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View Poll Results: HOF VOTE, you get ONE vote here
Randy Moss 91 74.59%
Terrell Owens 15 12.30%
Marvin Harrison 14 11.48%
None of them, somehow 2 1.64%
Voters: 122. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-06-2010, 12:13 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Default HOF Ballot: You get one vote between these 2 guys

(stats are up-to-date, of course both expect to rack up more stats and they hope playoff & Super Bowl stuff)

Listening to Collinsworth and Florio this morning, talking about off-field issues being a factor for HOF voters, I thought this would be a great poll here and I don't see this debate anywhere else here....... your thoughts, and cast your one vote.

TERRELL OWENS
14 seasons
1,006 catches
14,951 yards
144 TD catches
3 TD runs
9 1,000-yard seasons
8 seasons with 10+ TDs
1 Super Bowl loss, played great in game

-Was selfish and caused problems for more than 1 team, but worked hard and had no run-ins with the law.
-Worked hard on field, never quit on the field, trained hard, but was too passionate on the field at times, b*tching at Garcia and McNabb and killing them in the media.
-Generally, I believe, a decent person off the field.

RANDY MOSS
12 seasons
926 catches
14,465 yards
148 TD catches
10 1,000 yard seasons
9 seasons with 10+ TDs
rookie record of 17 TD catches
all time record of 23 TD catches in 2007 season
had over 1,000 yard receiving his first season with Oakland (wow)
1 Super Bowl loss, played okay-well in game

-Was moody, quitting on both the Vikings and Raiders at times, even walking off the field before Viking @ Redskin game had ended
-Gave no effort in Oakland, although that team was a black hole
-Never involved in any serious off-field issues aside from the minor run-in with the police officer in Minnesota (straight cash homey)
-Generally, I believe, a decent person off the field.

Neither guy is gangster or criminal like a Vick, Jamal Lewis, Lawrence Phillips, etc. but both guys have serious issues that will be of concern to some voters, based on things I heard this morning on DTV channel 101, and listening to Peter King and Chris Mortenson over time.

You get one vote, who do you vote for?

As comparison, here are Marvin Harrison's stats and Michael Irvins, who is in.
Wow, seeing how good Marvin's stats are relative to Moss and Owens, I have to add him in !

IRVIN
12 seasons
750 catches
11,904 yards
65 TD catches
7 1,000-yard seasons
2 90+ catch seasons
3 Super Bowls, played great in games

HARRISON
13 seasons
1,102 catches
14,580 yards
128 TD catches
4 100+ catch seasons
2 90+catch seasons
8 1,000-yard seasons (consecutive)
8 10+ TD seasons (consecutive)
Won 1 Super Bowl, can't remember how he played in that game (some help)

-During career, was quiet as a mouse off the field and on the field. Caused no problems.... after career ended, may have murdered someone, still ongoing investigations.

Last edited by J-Mike88 : 08-06-2010 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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Randy Moss, and everything i can think of can be said for both guys, so I'll just say Moss will have the better numbers at the end of their careers
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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All three are Canton bound, but if you're going to compare alltime greats to other HOF WRs, I put Randy Moss a slight tick ahead of T.O., but I'd still prefer T.O. in his prime over Moss, because of his physical presence.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Got to be Moss.

Had Randy Moss had a consistent and good QB for his entire career like Marvin did, he'd have much better numbers than he does now. And if he hadn't gone to Oakland, he'd have even better numbers too.

In his entire career, he's posted single digit TD's only three times (per season). Two of those happened in Oakland. He's had 1000+ yard seasons in all but two, and one happened in Oakland.

That stop was a major bump in his career. Had he gone straight to NE from Minny, he'd have at least 10 more TD's and 50 more yards.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Harrison was a damn good receiver but lets be honest Peyton was a big part of his success. But not I, I voted Moss.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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Had Moss spent his entire career with one of the best passers ever like Harrison was able to do, the numbers would likely be off the charts.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I gave it to Harrison because the whole pedigree is there. Moss is better but with one vote only, can't give it to the guy who quit, even if it was on the Raiders. I'd rather give it to the gun wielding psycho who was always, always dependable.

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Old 08-06-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
Won 1 Super Bowl, can't remember how he played in that game (some help)

-During career, was quiet as a mouse off the field and on the field. Caused no problems.... after career ended, may have murdered someone, still ongoing investigations.
Both Harrison and Wayne had a rather pedestrian game. Both combined for 7 catches, 120 yards. That includes a 53 yard TD to Wayne when there was a miss-communication between the corner/safety leaving Wayne wide open. Clark had even less.

The Bears defense played the pass so heavily that the Colts neared 200 rushing yards (yes,you read that right), and Addai led the team in receptions(10) & passing yards(66). The dump-off pass was everywhere and the run game was getting 5 yards a carry. Dominic Rhodes would have gotten MVP in a more just world.

Also, I thought Marvin was cleared on everything. I could be wrong/had my homer glasses on though.
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
All three are Canton bound, but if you're going to compare alltime greats to other HOF WRs, I put Randy Moss a slight tick ahead of T.O., but I'd still prefer T.O. in his prime over Moss, because of his physical presence.
Well said. But damn, one-sided voting here!
Bad poll then by me.
I heard some cases made for TO this morning and Florio said that he's talked to more than one voter who will not put Moss on his first ballot because he quit on the Raiders totally..... you guys remember back to 2007, everyone said he was done, washed up.

However, part of me doesn't blame him because that was the only way he could escape Oakland at that time. You can't just turn in your resignation or quit like a normal job. Well, maybe if you're name is Brett Favre you can pull something like that....
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:01 PM    (permalink
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True about Oakland and Moss, he had to do something to get out of there, and unfortunately, that was by playing beneath his abilities.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I gave it to Harrison because the whole pedigree is there. Moss is better but with one vote only, can't give it to the guy who quit, even if it was on the Raiders. I'd rather give it to the gun wielding psycho was always, always dependable.
Except, you know, in the playoffs where he managed to disappear every year.

In 16 postseason games (the equivalent of a full season) he had 65 catches, 883 yards, 2 touchdowns, and only one 100 yard game. That is ******* pitiful.

Tough call between Moss and Owens, though. They were both amazingly dominant, but limited in the route tree (TO pretty much only runs drags and slants, Moss runs streaks, fades, and corners). They were both impossible to contain or gameplan for.

I guess if I had to vote one, the Superbowl game with a broken leg puts TO over the top for me. Moss' record year with Brady (his only real QB in his career) makes this such a tough decision, though.

Also, TO will win CPOTY. Book it. His "decline" in Buffalo is no different than Moss' "decline" in Oakland. People will feel really stupid after this year. He averaged 15 ******* yards per catch with Cpt. Checkdown Edwards last year, who was getting nailed on three step drops.

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Old 08-06-2010, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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If the refs ever had the balls to call a pass-interference call on the Pats, Harrison's playoff numbers would be dramatically different.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
(stats are up-to-date, of course both expect to rack up more stats and they hope playoff & Super Bowl stuff)

Listening to Collinsworth and Florio this morning, talking about off-field issues being a factor for HOF voters, I thought this would be a great poll here and I don't see this debate anywhere else here....... your thoughts, and cast your one vote.

TERRELL OWENS
14 seasons
1,006 catches
14,951 yards
144 TD catches
3 TD runs
9 1,000-yard seasons
8 seasons with 10+ TDs
1 Super Bowl loss, played great in game


RANDY MOSS
12 seasons
926 catches
14,465 yards
148 TD catches
10 1,000 yard seasons
9 seasons with 10+ TDs

Wow, seeing how good Marvin's stats are relative to Moss and Owens, I have to add him in !

HARRISON
13 seasons
1,102 catches
14,580 yards
128 TD catches
4 100+ catch seasons
2 90+catch seasons
8 1,000-yard seasons (consecutive)
8 10+ TD seasons (consecutive)
T.O. and Moss both have more yards per catch, overall yards (Moss for sure after this year... Harrison played 13 years this will be Moss's 13th year and will in all likelihood go for 1,000 yards.

Moss will statistically destroy Harrison even more in equal seasons after this year, so I really don't get how "seeing how good Marvin's stats are relative to Moss and Owens, I have to add him in ! can apply to the stats.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Moss's numbers are better with less seasons and catches, and he's had to play the most seasons at his peak with poor QB play(he's had it pretty good overall, but not in comparison to these guys).

The way Moss warps a defense and a gameplan is just beyond these other guys though. He's one of those few weapons where even with double and triple teams, you are still pretty likely to get toasted deep at least once.
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Old 08-06-2010, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Moss easily for me. Aside from his time in OAK, he has been of the most feared WR in the League.

Plus his name has become a verb. Moss'D!
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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If the refs ever had the balls to call a pass-interference call on the Pats, Harrison's playoff numbers would be dramatically different.
LOL, deep memories!
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:31 PM    (permalink
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one could argue that Moss actually made Dante Culpepper look good.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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meh. i think early culpepper gets seriously underrated, just because later culpepper sucked.
Maybe it's because the ratio of good years to bad years is seriously skewed towards bad. First four years in the league? Not bad. After that? Rather awful.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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one could argue that Moss actually made Dante Culpepper look good.

Culpepper put up one of the best seasons from a QB in recent memory when Moss was banged up all year and only had 49 catches.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
meh. i think early culpepper gets seriously underrated, just because later culpepper sucked.

Likewise, but in comparison to Peyton Manning? Culpepper had some really good years, but some lower ones, and playing in Oakland was far far far worse than anything the other two had to go to, even compared to Buffalo last year for TO.

In Hindsight I guess Cunningham, Culpepper, MVP Brady, Cassell, Really good BRady is better than what TO had in the end of Young, Garcia, McNabb, Romo, and then Buffaroflo.
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Old 08-06-2010, 04:59 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FlyingElvis View Post
Had Moss spent his entire career with one of the best passers ever like Harrison was able to do, the numbers would likely be off the charts.
If Moss spent his career with Peyton Manning, we'd all be wondering "Jerry who?"


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meh. i think early culpepper gets seriously underrated, just because later culpepper sucked.
Throwing to Moss and Carter, average fans could put up huge numbers.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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T.O. and Moss both have more yards per catch, overall yards (Moss for sure after this year... Harrison played 13 years this will be Moss's 13th year and will in all likelihood go for 1,000 yards.

Moss will statistically destroy Harrison even more in equal seasons after this year, so I really don't get how "seeing how good Marvin's stats are relative to Moss and Owens, I have to add him in ! can apply to the stats.
It's a freeze frame comparison, not looking into the future to see the numbers Randy Moss will likely put up before he retires.

I doubt Moss' career numbers will 'destroy' Marvin Harrison's. Only one WR really dwarfs the production of Harrison, or any one else; Jerry Rice.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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(stats are up-to-date, of course both expect to rack up more stats and they hope playoff & Super Bowl stuff)

Listening to Collinsworth and Florio this morning, talking about off-field issues being a factor for HOF voters, I thought this would be a great poll here and I don't see this debate anywhere else here....... your thoughts, and cast your one vote.

TERRELL OWENS
14 seasons
1,006 catches
14,951 yards
144 TD catches
3 TD runs
9 1,000-yard seasons
8 seasons with 10+ TDs
1 Super Bowl loss, played great in game

-Was selfish and caused problems for more than 1 team, but worked hard and had no run-ins with the law.
-Worked hard on field, never quit on the field, trained hard, but was too passionate on the field at times, b*tching at Garcia and McNabb and killing them in the media.
-Generally, I believe, a decent person off the field.

RANDY MOSS
12 seasons
926 catches
14,465 yards
148 TD catches
10 1,000 yard seasons
9 seasons with 10+ TDs
rookie record of 17 TD catches
all time record of 23 TD catches in 2007 season
had over 1,000 yard receiving his first season with Oakland (wow)
1 Super Bowl loss, played okay-well in game

-Was moody, quitting on both the Vikings and Raiders at times, even walking off the field before Viking @ Redskin game had ended
-Gave no effort in Oakland, although that team was a black hole
-Never involved in any serious off-field issues aside from the minor run-in with the police officer in Minnesota (straight cash homey)
-Generally, I believe, a decent person off the field.

Neither guy is gangster or criminal like a Vick, Jamal Lewis, Lawrence Phillips, etc. but both guys have serious issues that will be of concern to some voters, based on things I heard this morning on DTV channel 101, and listening to Peter King and Chris Mortenson over time.

You get one vote, who do you vote for?

As comparison, here are Marvin Harrison's stats and Michael Irvins, who is in.
Wow, seeing how good Marvin's stats are relative to Moss and Owens, I have to add him in !

IRVIN
12 seasons
750 catches
11,904 yards
65 TD catches
7 1,000-yard seasons
2 90+ catch seasons
3 Super Bowls, played great in games

HARRISON
13 seasons
1,102 catches
14,580 yards
128 TD catches
4 100+ catch seasons
2 90+catch seasons
8 1,000-yard seasons (consecutive)
8 10+ TD seasons (consecutive)
Won 1 Super Bowl, can't remember how he played in that game (some help)

-During career, was quiet as a mouse off the field and on the field. Caused no problems.... after career ended, may have murdered someone, still ongoing investigations.
Since when? Irvin is in the HOF, LT is, I could go on but the HOF is about on the field production plain and simple.
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:19 PM    (permalink
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Since when? Irvin is in the HOF, LT is, I could go on but the HOF is about on the field production plain and simple.
Each voter is human, and each has a different opinion about off-field issues, beit PEDs, other drugs, arrests, attitude, treatment of media, whatever.

Some voters think McGwire deserves to be in still, some don't.

Voters are people and no two people think exactly the same about those types of issues, even though they are supposed to only judge the on-field work, you know some factor in the player as a person.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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TERRELL OWENS
14 seasons
1,006 catches
14,951 yards
144 TD catches
3 TD runs
9 1,000-yard seasons
8 seasons with 10+ TDs
1 Super Bowl loss, played great in game

RANDY MOSS
12 seasons
926 catches
14,465 yards
148 TD catches
10 1,000 yard seasons
9 seasons with 10+ TDs
rookie record of 17 TD catches
all time record of 23 TD catches in 2007 season
had over 1,000 yard receiving his first season with Oakland (wow)
1 Super Bowl loss, played okay-well in game

IRVIN
12 seasons
750 catches
11,904 yards
65 TD catches
7 1,000-yard seasons
2 90+ catch seasons
3 Super Bowls, played great in games

HARRISON
13 seasons
1,102 catches
14,580 yards
128 TD catches
4 100+ catch seasons
2 90+catch seasons
8 1,000-yard seasons (consecutive)
8 10+ TD seasons (consecutive)
Lynn Swann is in. He made a few circus-highlight reel catches in big game Super Bowls as part of the dynasty Steelers title teams.
Here's Swann's career stats, per Florio's column today.

Swann finished with only 336 catches and 5,462 yards. He scored a scant 51 touchdowns, an average of fewer than six per season.

His total catches don't even rank in the top 250 all time, per Pro-Football-Reference.com.
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