Willis or Revis ?

[Basileus777]

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

I have to wonder why the poll is Revis vs. Willis instead of Asomugha vs. Willis? I thought everyone knew that Asomugha was the best corner but I guess I was wrong. Revis looks great with an elite pass rush but Asomugha does it when opposing quarterbacks have all day to throw. Put Asomugha on the Jets and teams will complete less than 10 passes on him every season

On topic though I would take Willis over Revis but Asomugha over Willis, all other things being equal.

Elite pass rush? The Jets?

The Jets actually have a poor pass rush. They get by by blitzing all the time, which is possible in large part because they can leave Revis out in single coverage.

[H.O.O.D]

Originally Posted by Basileus777

Elite pass rush? The Jets?

The Jets actually have a poor pass rush. They get by by blitzing all the time, which is possible in large part because they can leave Revis out in single coverage.

The Raiders actually had more sacks than the Jets did last year.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Revis. Take two elite players at their position, assuming both are elite as they are in this instance, and the CB will be much more impacting to a game than the ILB. A CB like Revis changes a gameplan by cutting off half the field. An ILB can make sideline to sideline plays and be solid in coverage, but taking out a WR regardless of where he lines up on the field is very rare to find. Revis for me, but then again i'm a Jets fan, so don't take me serious i guess....

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by Basileus777

Elite pass rush? The Jets?

The Jets actually have a poor pass rush. They get by by blitzing all the time, which is possible in large part because they can leave Revis out in single coverage.

Whether it is because they blitz or because their front seven is good, the Jets put more pressure on opposing quarterbacks then pretty much every team in the league last year. It was definitely better than the Raiders

[prock]

Originally Posted by descendency

No one could cover that Moss.

Moss is the reason I started watching football, when I was 7 years old in 1998. He will always be my favorite player.

On subject, give me Revis.

[PACKmanN]

i think you guys are not understanding what an impact a ILB could make, someone like Willis can be an intimidation to both the RB and QB which can shutdown either part of the offense. Not only that, but he can make more plays in the game which can change the momentum and have the defense play better on every down.

Yes Revis can shutdown half the feild, but what could he do to motivate the other 11 players if he can't get his hands on the ball(other than yap his mouth off) to give his defensemen the needed boost.

Plus an ILB is usually the leader and person others look to on the defense

A lot of people will say that having a CB who can take away the number 1 WR on the other team is elite, but imo, taking away the TE is more important than the WR. Hear me out, most, if not all, the qbs in the league use the TE/RB as an underneath route to build the momentum are the first routes they look at, you take away the safety route from the qb and you're already in his head

[TACKLE]

Originally Posted by PACKmanN

i think you guys are not understanding what an impact a ILB could make, someone like Willis can be an intimidation to both the RB and QB which can shutdown either part of the offense. Not only that, but he can make more plays in the game which can change the momentum and have the defense play better on every down.

Yes Revis can shutdown half the feild, but what could he do to motivate the other 11 players if he can't get his hands on the ball(other than yap his mouth off) to give his defensemen the needed boost.

Plus an ILB is usually the leader and person others look to on the defense

By your standard of the impact an ILB can have, Ray Lewis would certainly have a greater impact than Willis. Ray is a FAR better intimidator, game changer, motivator and leader than Willis. Not to mention he has much better control of his defense and is much better at putting his guys in the right place to make plays.

[Paranoidmoonduck]

Originally Posted by PACKmanN

Plus an ILB is usually the leader and person others look to on the defense

True, but mostly undermined in this case by the fact that Spikes is the guy who makes sure everyone is in position and calls the plays for the Niners.

[PACKmanN]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

True, but mostly undermined in this case by the fact that Spikes is the guy who makes sure everyone is in position and calls the plays for the Niners.

I don't know why that may be, maybe because of Spikes being a Vet and it would be easier for him to get the respect from everyone because he's older and has been around longer, but without a doubt in my mind, Willis will be that guy once Spikes isn't resigned

[Saints-Tigers]

Tough, probably Revis. CBs and ILBs are pretty low on how I would build a defense.

Willis can't be slept on either though, he's the only guy I've ever seen single cover Reggie Bush for an entire game and shut down his receiving game.

Willis is pretty versatile on what you can do with him, and probably has more impact in a vacuum, but on a great D, Revis is probably more valuable.

[Michigan]

Originally Posted by The Great Jonathan Vilma

Revis. Take two elite players at their position, assuming both are elite as they are in this instance, and the CB will be much more impacting to a game than the ILB. A CB like Revis changes a gameplan by cutting off half the field. An ILB can make sideline to sideline plays and be solid in coverage, but taking out a WR regardless of where he lines up on the field is very rare to find. Revis for me, but then again i'm a Jets fan, so don't take me serious i guess....

ILB's make MUCH more of an impact than CB's do. It's just that you can plug in mediocre guys at ILB and succeed while you can't plug in mediocre guys at CB and expect the same. Thus, elite CB's are far more valuable.

Oh, and guys, let's stop using the "taking away half the field" hyperbole. It's obnoxious.

[Shiver]

Linebacker is probably the last in the defensive pecking order. Even Ray Lewis, one of the greatest of all time, complained and whined like a little girl until they got him Haloti Ngata to take up blockers for him. ILB/MLB don't affect the passing game, which is big in today's NFL last time I checked, and they don't impact the run defense if their defensive tacklers aren't up to par. Darrelle Revis every day of the week.

[Saints-Tigers]

Originally Posted by Shiver

Linebacker is probably the last in the defensive pecking order. Even Ray Lewis, one of the greatest of all time, complained and whined like a little girl until they got him Haloti Ngata to take up blockers for him. ILB/MLB don't affect the passing game, which is big in today's NFL last time I checked, and they don't impact the run defense if their defensive tacklers aren't up to par. Darrelle Revis every day of the week.

False. Very false.

[Shiver]

Yeah, the top-five pass defenses were:

New York
Buffalo
Denver
Carolina
Green Bay
Cincinnati

Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that all of them had from above average to great corners. It was surely their MLB play!

[619]

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

False. Very false.

You would know. Vilma being one of the better examples out there of a MLB/ILB who can plug the run, cover in zones, and rush the QB. If a team has a corps of backers who can do all three effectively, then that obviously adds to the unpredictability of the defense, and it's value can't be undermined.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

It's not a sensible argument though. Any 7 players on the defense are going to be more important than the other 4 simply by sheer force of numbers. To lump Willis' specific position in with other (more valuable) positions doesn't make any more sense than lumping Revis in with other (less valuable) defensive back position.

The number of personnel don't really have anything to do with it since there are 11 people on the opposing team. It's just simple logic. The more push and domination the front seven gets, the easier the secondary's job is going to be. Willis is part of a more, in my opinion, valuable unit. Revis is not.

Originally Posted by fenikz

Willis is overrated, Tackles aren't even a official stat

Right, because all Willis does is tackle. Kurt Warner probably has a different opinion about that.

[Saints-Tigers]

Originally Posted by Shiver

Yeah, the top-five pass defenses were:

New York
Buffalo
Denver
Carolina
Green Bay
Cincinnati

Surely it had nothing to do with the fact that all of them had from above average to great corners. It was surely their MLB play!

I never said it was the most important thing, but you said they don't affect it.

Those teams have strong MLB play anyway, bad example.

You would know. Vilma being one of the better examples out there of a MLB/ILB who can plug the run, cover in zones, and rush the QB. If a team has a corps of backers who can do all three effectively, then that obviously adds to the unpredictability of the defense, and it's value can't be undermined.

I've watched enough teams carve us up over the years on little dump offs and screen plays to know that a LB that covers that well is so valuable.

Guys like Willis can take away the short middle of the field and destroy swing passes and dump offs that have become so popular.

[PACKmanN]

either way, Ngata>the both of them.

[fenikz]

Originally Posted by Ness

Right, because all Willis does is tackle. Kurt Warner probably has a different opinion about that.

Willis has maybe touched Warner 2x in his career?

I'll say it til' the day I die Brooks is your best LB

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Paranoidmoonduck

Spikes is the guy who makes sure everyone is in position and calls the plays for the Niners.

Dashon Goldson wears the green dot.

Originally Posted by fenikz

I'll say it til' the day I die Brooks is your best LB

Because he had one awesome game? He needs to show a lot more than that.

[steelersfan43]

Originally Posted by Shiver

Linebacker is probably the last in the defensive pecking order. Even Ray Lewis, one of the greatest of all time, complained and whined like a little girl until they got him Haloti Ngata to take up blockers for him. ILB/MLB don't affect the passing game, which is big in today's NFL last time I checked, and they don't impact the run defense if their defensive tacklers aren't up to par. Darrelle Revis every day of the week.

Linebackers dont effect the Passing or running game huh? Sooo what do they do?????

[EvilNixon]

I would take an elite pass rusher over either.

[thenewfeature06]

Originally Posted by prock

Moss is the reason I started watching football, when I was 7 years old in 1998. He will always be my favorite player.

On subject, give me Revis.

You must spread some rep before giving it to prock again.

[SuperMcGee]

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

I never said it was the most important thing, but you said they don't affect it.

Those teams have strong MLB play anyway, bad example.

Poz is oft-injured and quite average. The linebackers were, by far, the worst part of our defense last year. Injuries surely didn't help, but it was a bad scene.

Must be nice to have that top corner and a stud ILB like the Jets do (well, kind of). Oakland may, as well. I certainly hope they do.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by fenikz

Willis has maybe touched Warner 2x in his career?

I'll say it til' the day I die Brooks is your best LB

Once was enough to make that impression on Warner I'm sure.

Brooks is our best linebacker. Yeah...right.