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View Poll Results: Revis or Willis
Revis 62 65.26%
Willis 33 34.74%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-22-2010, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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The conversation seems to be more about position rather than individuals. Someone convince me that Ray Lewis isnt as valuable as Joe cornerback because of the position he plays.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by EvilNixon View Post
I would take an elite pass rusher over either.
Yup. Without a good D-line, all LB's and CB's are mediocre.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by steelersfan43 View Post
Linebackers dont effect the Passing or running game huh? Sooo what do they do?????

Exactly...


Their only job is to wrap up and tackle soundly. But they really don't do a lot of good if the D-Line doesn't do theirs first.
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Old 08-22-2010, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Babylon View Post
The conversation seems to be more about position rather than individuals. Someone convince me that Ray Lewis isnt as valuable as Joe cornerback because of the position he plays.

People thought Ray Lewis was done in 2004. He struggled mightily, he complained about not having big stud DTs in front of him, they drafted Haloti Ngata and he is still making plays to this day. But the fact remains, he needed Haloti Ngata to keep him playing at a high level.
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Old 08-22-2010, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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One more reason that Willis is a better option that Revis that I don't know if its been mentioned:

Willis has shown he can perform at an elite level year in and year out and will play for reasonable money. Revis has had one elite season so far AND he is holding out.

Based on that: Willis
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Old 08-22-2010, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I take Willis over Revis easily. If I'm building a team I'd want decent CBs and more elite players up front.
He's the leader of a D (making adjustments), a sure tackler and someone you can't run away from.
His 9 career sacks don't scare me because that's not what his job is. No one's running on him and he can protect the flats. He's a beast in the 34, my fav type of D.

Revis is bad ass, but as stated before, his front 7 is just as dangerous. Give the QB little time to throw and suddenly the CBs look amazing.
Not saying thats Revis' deal but it goes more to my first point, a great front 7 will make the secondary look good.

Willis...
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Old 08-22-2010, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
People thought Ray Lewis was done in 2004. He struggled mightily, he complained about not having big stud DTs in front of him, they drafted Haloti Ngata and he is still making plays to this day. But the fact remains, he needed Haloti Ngata to keep him playing at a high level.
Well it's a team sport. Revis wouldn't be that dominant if he was playing on a team such as Jacksonville with their front seven.
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Linebacker is probably the last in the defensive pecking order. Even Ray Lewis, one of the greatest of all time, complained and whined like a little girl until they got him Haloti Ngata to take up blockers for him. ILB/MLB don't affect the passing game, which is big in today's NFL last time I checked, and they don't impact the run defense if their defensive tacklers aren't up to par. Darrelle Revis every day of the week.
That was far into his career, after he had already established himself as a HoF player and one of the most dominant defensive presences in the history of the game. Attempting to undermine the importance of a dominant ILB by saying that he needs a DT to take up blocks for him is ignorant; a dominant CB is nothing without a good pass rush to prevent the QB from picking apart the secondary. Defense is a symbiotic system, and each level requires the other to work before they can be really effective. Yes, I can see how one can make the argument that middle of the road LBs can be effective in certain circumstances, but at the same time a truly dominant LB core can shut down both the pass and the run. I don't see why this argument should be such a wash...I think when it all comes down to it, its as some said...Revis is just a better player. Willis has holes in his game, whereas right now Revis doesn't.
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Ness View Post
And you don't need really good corners if your front seven is great.
Thats true, just look at the Vikings.

Obviously, as a 49ers fan, I picked Willis. Revis is overrated. I would take Asomugha who I think is the best cover corner and Asante Samuel who I think is the best playmaking corner before I take Revis and this is coming from someone who lives in NY and sees Revis every damn week.
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:41 AM    (permalink
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Did you really just mention Asante Samuel in the same sentence as Revis and Asamugha? Cause that is crazy talk. Samuel is an overrated trail corner who couldn't tackle to save his life. He has no business being in the discussion for best CB.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:14 AM    (permalink
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Thats true, just look at the Vikings.

Obviously, as a 49ers fan, I picked Willis. Revis is overrated. I would take Asomugha who I think is the best cover corner and Asante Samuel who I think is the best playmaking corner before I take Revis and this is coming from someone who lives in NY and sees Revis every damn week.
If you want to take Willis, that's fine but please don't say Revis is overrated.

And Samuel blows. Woodson is the best playmaking corner in the league.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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Anytime a player has one dominant year and people start proclaiming them the best at their position, they are overrated. I gotta see him replicate something similar to last season at least one more time for me to consider him the best corner in the NFL.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shahin View Post
Anytime a player has one dominant year and people start proclaiming them the best at their position, they are overrated. I gotta see him replicate something similar to last season at least one more time for me to consider him the best corner in the NFL.
Believe it or not, Revis had a pretty damn good year in 2008 (5 ints) and was solid as a rookie in 2007.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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Anytime a player has one dominant year and people start proclaiming them the best at their position, they are overrated. I gotta see him replicate something similar to last season at least one more time for me to consider him the best corner in the NFL.
This. I need to see at least one more good season from Revis before I declare him anything but a fluke. And I don't think CBs are as valuable as we make them out to be, especially now when the rules favor the offense in such a big way.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:03 AM    (permalink
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Thats true, just look at the Vikings.
The Vikings have the best defensive line in the NFL, and Antione Winfield is a multiple Pro Bowler. Cedric Griffin isn't a slouch either.

Meanwhile, the Vikes's starting MLB E.J. Henderson has been injured all the time. The dude hasn't played an entire season since 2007. And while he's good, he doesn't rank as high on the MLB scale as Winfield does on the CB scale, so it's a faulty comparison.

Also, Ness, quit it with the "Front 7" stuff. PMD is right. You're grouping ILB's in with DE's, DT's, and pass-rushing OLB's - all more pivotal postions than ILB. That's like a ******* traffic cop arguing the legitimacy of his profession by saying, "Well, would you rather have us, homicide, SWAT, SVU, and the other department agencies? Cause we're pretty important."

DE, DT, and pass-rushing OLB's - these are the pivotal guys being talked about when people refer to the "front seven." Hell, LB's could be grouped into the "back seven" just as easily, but since pass-rushing OLB's are becoming more and more common, it's become the trendy phrase when grouping in the DE's, DT's, and 3-4 OLB's - it just so happens that ILB's have been taken along for the ride. It's a flawed argument to make when you're talking about individual players, let alone two specific ones.

And all this is to not demean the impact ILB's have on the game. It's not an insult to Patrick Willis. It's just that this has been argued multiple times and it's freakin' ********.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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A great corner helps his pass rush. You can be freed to rush 6-7 guys and generate a pass rush if you have an elite, shutdown corner. If a MLB is stuck behind a bad D-Line, then he'll rack up a lot of tackles five yards down the field. I know, we had Keith Brooking make the "pro bowl" like five times.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:53 AM    (permalink
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Also, Ness, quit it with the "Front 7" stuff. PMD is right.
I disagree.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:54 AM    (permalink
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Mainly because I look at things more then just on the field. I look at everything and not to mention he is the best ILB in the game, noone can really doubt that (Maybe if other ILBs were in their primes or non injury prone there would be a better case) but you can argue that Nnamdi is the top corner. And yes, CB is more important then ILB. But its also the fact that Willis will do everything right on and off the field. Not saying Revis hasnt, but I just would take Willis.
DeMeco Ryans says "hi."
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:48 AM    (permalink
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DeMeco Ryans says "hi Patrick Willis, you are the best MLB"
Fixed.

Seriously, LBs are crucial in coverage as well and help the pass rush big time. Poor coverage LBs will kill their teams pass rush when QBs dump it off to a guy underneath for 7-8 yards or more every time he feels pressure.
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Old 08-23-2010, 07:17 AM    (permalink
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Willis is overrated, Tackles aren't even a official stat
Were the 3 ints and 4 sacks he had last year official?
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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im taking willis...hes been the best MLB in the league since he was a rookie and will be for 8 more years imo, revis has been in the discussion for the best CB after one year and in the past 5 years theres been multiple corners in contention for that #1 spot...its such a hard position to play id be somewhat surprised if revis ever duplicated his 2009 year

hes a hammer in the middle, can cover and blitz even though he isnt asked to do it that much. to me he could play all 4 spots in a 34. he has an incredible blend of size, speed and instincts
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:49 AM    (permalink
JETS5128
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Originally Posted by themaninblack View Post
This. I need to see at least one more good season from Revis before I declare him anything but a fluke. And I don't think CBs are as valuable as we make them out to be, especially now when the rules favor the offense in such a big way.
You obviously know very little about Darrelle Revis
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by dan77733 View Post
Asante Samuel who I think is the best playmaking corner


What's up, dude?

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before I take Revis
You would be the worst ******* GM ever. Asante Samuel is terrible.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Revis.

And I LOVE P Willie, but it has to be Revis. There's only 2 legit shutdown CBs in the league. Having a shutdown CB does wonders for your defense.

While I love Willis and think he's the best ILB in the league, Revis is also the best CB in the league, and I'm taking a true shutdown CB over the best ILB 10 out of 10 times.

He just impacts a gameplan more.
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Fixed.

Seriously, LBs are crucial in coverage as well and help the pass rush big time. Poor coverage LBs will kill their teams pass rush when QBs dump it off to a guy underneath for 7-8 yards or more every time he feels pressure.
The Giants shut down the greatest offense in NFL history with Reggie Torbor, Antonio Pierce and Kawika Mitchell. That's 3 poor coverage LBs and Tom Brady couldn't do **** against them, why? Because the front 4 was beastly and the corners played really well, C-web in particular was playing great on Randy Moss.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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