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View Poll Results: Revis or Willis
Revis 62 65.26%
Willis 33 34.74%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-23-2010, 12:54 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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The Giants shut down the greatest offense in NFL history with Reggie Torbor, Antonio Pierce and Kawika Mitchell. That's 3 poor coverage LBs and Tom Brady couldn't do **** against them, why? Because the front 4 was beastly and the corners played really well, C-web in particular was playing great on Randy Moss.
The Giants defensive performance was all because of the front four. The linebackers played just as well as the defensive backs during that run.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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The Giants defensive performance was all because of the front four. The linebackers played just as well as the defensive backs during that run.
That's just not true, but then again I'm only a giants fan who's been following the team for 9 or 10 years. The DL was great, by far the best it had been this decade, but our corners vastly outplayed our linebackers that entire playoff run and that's why our D become such a force when it started the season abysmally. Our linebackers were mediocre while our CBs were quite good, Web in particular was exceptional.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:59 PM    (permalink
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Old 08-23-2010, 01:09 PM    (permalink
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I'd rather have a domininate DLman than either of them, but if I had to choose I'd take Revis. I think it's easier to get an ILB who can give you close to what Willis offers than it is to get a CB other than Aso who can do what Revis does or anywhere near it.
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Old 08-23-2010, 03:17 PM    (permalink
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Willis caught Chris Johnson in the open field.

When you see the plays this guy makes, it's pretty much a no-brainer he's going into the Hall of Fame one day, assuming he stays healthy. He has pretty much single-handedly transformed the 49ers' defense into one of the premier units in the league.

LOL @ "it's easy to get an ILB who gives you close to what Willis gives you." It's pretty obvious almost no one in this thread has really watched Willis play. Willis IS great in every aspect of the game.

As for Revis...when they really start calling him for all the holding he does, he could be in some trouble.

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Old 08-23-2010, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Willis caught Chris Johnson in the open field.

When you see the plays this guy makes, it's pretty much a no-brainer he's going into the Hall of Fame one day, assuming he stays healthy. He has pretty much single-handedly transformed the 49ers' defense into one of the premier units in the league.

LOL @ "it's easy to get an ILB who gives you close to what Willis gives you." It's pretty obvious almost no one in this thread has really watched Willis play.

As for Revis...when they really start calling him for all the holding he does, he could be in some trouble.
No one is saying Willis is a scrub. But he will never impact a gameplan the way Revis does.

Willis is the best ILB in the game, but guys like David Harris, Curtis Lofton, Jon Beason, Stewart Bradley (if healthy), Jarod Mayo can give you similar production. They'll stuff the run, make plays sideline to sideline, and give you decent coverage underneath just like Willis.

An ILB is a glorified tackle machine.
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Old 08-23-2010, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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I don't think any of the guys BBD listed go sideline-to-sideline nearly as well as Willis, but a few of them do a few things even better than Willis. Willis a special guy who's speed and tackling form and power make him one of the best guys in pursuit in the entire NFL (if not the best guy). He's dominant at coming downhill and he almost never misses a tackle.

That said, there's more to a linebacker than that I think there's a whole lot more value to a guy who's proven that you can throw at him 100+ times in a season and barely have any success against. It's more useful schematically and it's ultimately more valuable to the rest of the defense.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Willis caught Chris Johnson in the open field.
I remember that play. My jaw dropped. It's the only time I've ever remembered CJ getting caught from behind (albeit, CJ was running full bore, but it was still impressive for a LB to do that).

Still didn't stop CJ from running for 135 yards, 5.4 YPC, and 2 TD's though. Just sayin'... ;)

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The conversation seems to be more about position rather than individuals. Someone convince me that Ray Lewis isnt as valuable as Joe cornerback because of the position he plays.
While I agree that the conversation has taken a turn for "ILB vs CB," the question of Ray Lewis vs Joe Haden is an unfair one. In the case of Patrick Willis vs Darrelle Revis, you have the #1 ILB vs the #1 CB. The best of the best.

That's not the case when you're comparing a 1st ballot HoF'er like Lewis to a rookie who has never even seen pro action like Haden. Obviously the choice is Lewis because he's the superior player compared to the unknown you have in the rookie, but that has nothing to do with their positions so I'm missing your point. Plus, many who vote for Revis in this thing also think he's a superior player in addition to playing the more valuable position.

I think it'd be far more interesting to see if people's stances change when comparing other players who are ranked the same among their respective positions, like Jon Beason v. Nnamdi Asomugha, Ray Lewis v. Charles Woodson, etc.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Ray Lewis over any CB who has been in the league during his tenure. Every single one. The effect he has on a defense is immeasurable.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Revis FTW! Shutdown corner > pretty good LB.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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if this was between willis, ngata and revis it wouldnt even be close to be

ngata <3333


revis is really good but im not convinced hes the best after one year. willis is however the best and will be for a while, theres not a comparison for his level of play as a MLB right now...i dont think in 2 years the same will be said for revis cause the "best" CB title changes holders every 2-3 years it seems, theres always someone new up and coming or a guy starting to get noticed more
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 08-23-2010, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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if this was between willis, ngata and revis it wouldnt even be close to be

ngata <3333


revis is really good but im not convinced hes the best after one year. willis is however the best and will be for a while, theres not a comparison for his level of play as a MLB right now...i dont think in 2 years the same will be said for revis cause the "best" CB title changes holders every 2-3 years it seems, theres always someone new up and coming or a guy starting to get noticed more
Ummm Jon Beason plays just as well as Willis does, albeit in a scheme that is more conducive to playmaking middle LBers.
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Old 08-23-2010, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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I'd take Ray Lewis over any CB who has been in the league during his tenure. Every single one. The effect he has on a defense is immeasurable.
Doth says the Raven...s fan. :D
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Doth says the Raven...s fan. :D
Well as a Ravens fan Ive seen the effect he has. Chris McAlister was one of the best cornerbacks of the last 10 years, and even during his prime he didnt have the same sort of influence on a game that Ray has. When Ray is on the field, the entire play goes through him. Its uncanny.
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Old 08-23-2010, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Willis caught Chris Johnson in the open field.

When you see the plays this guy makes, it's pretty much a no-brainer he's going into the Hall of Fame one day, assuming he stays healthy. He has pretty much single-handedly transformed the 49ers' defense into one of the premier units in the league.

LOL @ "it's easy to get an ILB who gives you close to what Willis gives you." It's pretty obvious almost no one in this thread has really watched Willis play. Willis IS great in every aspect of the game.

As for Revis...when they really start calling him for all the holding he does, he could be in some trouble.
Homer post of the week!
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:11 PM    (permalink
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I think it'd be far more interesting to see if people's stances change when comparing other players who are ranked the same among their respective positions, like Jon Beason v. Nnamdi Asomugha, Ray Lewis v. Charles Woodson, etc.
Except that is a comparison between the #1 ILB and #1 CB.
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Old 08-23-2010, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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Willis is overrated, Tackles aren't even a official stat
I hear his dad keeps track.
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Old 08-23-2010, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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The Giants shut down the greatest offense in NFL history with Reggie Torbor, Antonio Pierce and Kawika Mitchell. That's 3 poor coverage LBs and Tom Brady couldn't do **** against them, why? Because the front 4 was beastly and the corners played really well, C-web in particular was playing great on Randy Moss.
That's cool and all, but most teams don't have 3 to 4 dominant pass rushers to rotate and play together.

Oh, and I'd easily take Ray Lewis over any CB, put Willis is no Ray Lewis either.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Would you take Ray Lewis over Deion Sanders? Yeah, didn't think so. (if not, 1994 49ers and 1995-6 Cowboys would like to speak with you.)
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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Would you take Ray Lewis over Deion Sanders? Yeah, didn't think so. (if not, 1994 49ers and 1995-6 Cowboys would like to speak with you.)
See, I dont see why thats a ridiculous argument. How many Super Bowl MVP's does Sanders have? You bring up the fact that Sanders assisted in winning championships for those teams, but what do you think Lewis did for the Ravens? He was the centrepiece for the most dominant defense in NFL history, one that won a championship practically on its own merit. At least the defense Deion was playing on had an offense to compliment it. You make it seem like Sanders over Lewis is a clear cut argument, but to be honest, Im not sure its as simple as you make it out to be. They both had tremendous influences on the defenses they played for, but as influential and detrimental Sanders could be to an offense, Lewis was anywhere and everywhere during his prime. Run or pass didnt matter, and you cant say that with Sanders.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:25 AM    (permalink
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Lewis had two behemoths in front of him in 2000. When he didn't, he struggled and complained. I still remember the Chiefs pwning him in 2004. Then after 2005 he bitched and moaned all off-season until they got him Haloti Ngata to make his job easier. Had the Browns not stupidly traded with the Ravens, it is probable Ray Lewis would have retired. But he is still in the league, racking up tackles and pro-bowls. Which is fine, but he owes Haloti Ngata for extending his career and returning him to the center stage.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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I would take Lewis over Sanders, unless it was a specialized situation, like playing against a team that runs only 2 wide outs and throws to a Randy Moss for the bulk of their offense.

Otherwise, I want the machine in the middle that dictates flow.

The defensive line helping linebackers thing is a bogus argument when using CBs anyway.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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Wrong, Corners help the pass rush. Linebackers do not help the D-Line. (in a 4-3)
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:31 AM    (permalink
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Sure they do, good linebackers can eliminate the dump offs and check down throws.

I've seen our pass rush look terrible because of linebackers that allow for easy check downs.

You're just wrong here, and are pretending that nothing matters in the passing game except the #1 receiver on the team.
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Old 08-24-2010, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, when you can cover the number 1 you can zero blitz (helps the pass rush), you can double the #2 WR or TE, and you can put eight in the box (helps the run game). The Bears were eaten alive in the Super Bowl by the Colts check-down game and they had Brian Urlacher and Lance Briggs!
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