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Old 08-31-2010, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Ben is fifth or sixth when he plays his best. However, like Shiver pointed out, he's inconsistent from year-to-year. He's been in the league for six years and his seasons have gone like this: good, very good, terrible, excellent, average, and excellent. You never know what you're going to get with him.
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
You're telling me there's a gap in between Rivers and Rodgers? Humor me some more by trying to logic that.
Resume, Rivers has had more time to pad has and as Rodgers racks up more and more massive years and strong playoff performances he'll likely move into the same tier as Rivers if not the same tier Brady, Peyton and Brees currently inhibit.

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Eli Manning took a long time to develop. From about 2005-2007 I began to doubt he ever would. Ever since that playoff run in the 2007 playoffs (because he was awful in the regular season that year, thank God for defense and the run game) he has blossomed into a mature, accurate passer who can flat out make plays. Last year was his first of what I think will be a pattern of 4,000 yard seasons.
Eli has never been awful. He made some bad decisions because early on he got put in the role of bus driver who needs to come through in the last minutes of each half, so he pressed in those moments and made some bad decisions. That said Eli has been a very good hurry-up QB for us since his first start, so even when he wasn't at he was developing he was clutch thus making him not awful.

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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
We might be the only team in the league that runs an iform heavy offense.

Our offense is so dated.


We probably will try to establish the run early, but will see it fail bc our oline can't block anymore, and will go back to more 3 WR sets out of necessity. My concern is we don't pass protect very well either, so unless the oline really wakes up, its going to be a long season offensively.
We have some really crazy winds to deal with though that make it really hard for us to expect the passing game to carry us through December and January at home, so while I agree we have more talent in the passing game we need to keep the running game rolling.

As for the Eli/Big Ben clutch debate both are two of the clutchest QBs in the league right now, which is all I was saying, that Big Ben's biggest strength, his clutchness, isn't a clear advantage over Eli who's been straight up clutch since day one.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-31-2010, 02:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by katnip View Post
I base Super Bowl rings in this heavily, and obviously based on last year. Also how I think they'll do this coming season.

1a) Peyton Manning
1b) Drew Brees
3) Aaron Rodgers
4) Tom Brady
5) Big Ben
6) Matt Schaub

7) Philip Rivers
8) Donovan McNabb
9) Brett Favre
10) Joe Flacco


I believe Big Ben will do very well when he comes back.
Not sure if serious?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:05 PM    (permalink
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How will the winds impact the passing game in the new stadium? It can't be worse than the old stadium, but is it better I wonder.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Resume, Rivers has had more time to pad has and as Rodgers racks up more and more massive years and strong playoff performances he'll likely move into the same tier as Rivers if not the same tier Brady, Peyton and Brees currently inhibit.
Resume alone should have Favre first by that logic and more of the older QBs toward the top of your order. What has Rivers done individually that puts him a tier over Rodgers? I know it's such a little thing but with so many having Rodgers over Rivers alone, myself included, I don't see how you can have him a full tier behind Rivers unless you're factoring in overall team success which isn't exactly the best judgement.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Resume alone should have Favre first by that logic and more of the older QBs toward the top of your order. What has Rivers done individually that puts him a tier over Rodgers? I know it's such a little thing but with so many having Rodgers over Rivers alone, myself included, I don't see how you can have him a full tier behind Rivers unless you're factoring in overall team success which isn't exactly the best judgement.

Rodgers was a hair better last year, but Rivers was far and away the best QB in the NFL in 2008.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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My list would look like this -

1. Peyton Manning - Colts
2. Drew Brees - Saints

3. Tom Brady - Patriots
4. Aaron Rodgers - Packers
5. Philip Rivers - Chargers

6. Ben Roethlisberger - Steelers
7. Brett Favre - Vikings

8. Eli Manning - Giants
9. Tony Romo - Cowboys
10. Carson Palmer - Bengals
11. Matt Schaub - Texans (anyone could put up #'s throwing to A.J. but Schaub's pretty damn good)

12. Donovan McNabb - Redskins
13. Matt Ryan - Falcons
14. Jay Cutler - Bears
15. Joe Flacco - Ravens

16. Kevin Kolb - Eagles
17. Chad Henne - Dolphins
18. Vince Young - Titans

19. Matt Stafford - Lions
20. Matt Cassel - Chiefs
21. Alex Smith - 49ers
22. Kyle Orton - Broncos (I think the Marshall loss hurts - bold call)
23. Jason Campbell - Raiders
24. Matt Hasselbeck - Seahawks
25. Mark Sanchez - Jets
26. David Garrard - Jaguars

27. Josh Freeman - Buccaneers
28. Sam Bradford - Rams

29. Derek Anderson - Cardinals
30. Matt Moore - Panthers
31. Jake Delhomme - Browns
32. Trent Edwards - Bills

If Byron Leftwich/Matt Leinart were to be included they'd be behind Edwards for me.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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If I was asked to pick a QB to run my offense tomorrow, it would probably look something like...

1. Tom Brady
2. Peyton Manning
3. Aaron Rodgers
4. Drew Brees
5. Phillip Rivers
6. Tony Romo
7. Matt Schaub
8. Eli Manning
9. Brett Favre
10. Ben Roethlisberger
11. Donovan McNabb
12. Jay Cutler
13. Vince Young
14. Matt Ryan
15. Joe Flacco
16. Carson Palmer

After that it gets all jumbled and messy and not good, so I stopped listing.
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Old 08-31-2010, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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26. Byron Leftwich, Pittsburgh Steelers

27. Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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A guy that will undoubtably jump up all of these lists next year will be Jay Cutler. Pains me to say it but he's going to make remarkable strides (stat wise) in the Mike Martz offese. He doesn't have a true number one but a reciever out of the backfield, solid high upside TE, and a couple guys I personally like (individually, of course) at WR. Completely unbiased opinion here.

Then again, the same argument can be made against him in this pass happy offense. Cutler's physical tools aren't questioned, it's his head and in an offense as gimmicky as this, his confidence should be through the roof.

With that said, the Bears suck.
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
Resume alone should have Favre first by that logic and more of the older QBs toward the top of your order. What has Rivers done individually that puts him a tier over Rodgers? I know it's such a little thing but with so many having Rodgers over Rivers alone, myself included, I don't see how you can have him a full tier behind Rivers unless you're factoring in overall team success which isn't exactly the best judgement.
Sorry man I am a huge Rodgers fan, but when it comes to QBs winning games in the playoffs is definitely a factor. Plus Rivers is taller, has a cooler uniform, and is undefeated in his CAREER in december.

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Originally Posted by P-L View Post
Ben is fifth or sixth when he plays his best. However, like Shiver pointed out, he's inconsistent from year-to-year. He's been in the league for six years and his seasons have gone like this: good, very good, terrible, excellent, average, and excellent. You never know what you're going to get with him.
Raped. heh.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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I base Super Bowl rings in this heavily, and obviously based on last year. Also how I think they'll do this coming season.

1a) Peyton Manning
1b) Drew Brees
3) Aaron Rodgers
4) Tom Brady
5) Big Ben
6) Matt Schaub
7) Philip Rivers
8) Donovan McNabb
9) Brett Favre
10) Joe Flacco

I believe Big Ben will do very well when he comes back.
So you say you base your rankings heavily on SB rings, yet you have Brady behind 3 guys who have combined less rings than him. Don't contradict yourself too much.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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Super Bowls seem to confuse people when it comes to rankings. If it's all about Super Bowls, then Bradshaw must be the best QB of all time.

Big Ben tried to give away their first Super Bowl, but his team was so good they still won, well the refs helped too (sorry Seattle).

But I can't complain about him being above Rodgers at this point because of their head to head game last year. Rodgers was phenomenal, but Benny set a Steelers franchise record with 500+ yards, despite being pressured, and his last second, last-play TD pass broke our hearts and was the play of the year.

I agree Matt Schaub is too low. Again, the author is failing to judge it by performance only, and instead factors in playoff and team success too much.

Flacco ahead of Matt Ryan isn't right. Again, because the Ravens are rated so high, I think clown overrates the QB.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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If Big Ben comes back from his suspension and plays very, very well and keeps his nose clean this offseason and possibly next, where would you rank him? On his play alone, I think he's a top 5-6 QB, yet his off the field acts need to stop.
People dont just stop raping people.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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1- Peyton
2- Brees
3- Brady
4- Rivers
5- Rodgers
6- Roethlisberger
7- Eli
8- Romo
9- Schaub
10- McNabb

Brett Favre is one of the most overrated players in the history of football. I admire his durability, but he's not in the same class as the greats of yesteryear (Marino, Montana, Elway, etc.) and he's not as good as the elite guys right now.

Had McNabb been traded to the Vikings prior to last season, he would've helped them to similar regular season dominance and may have actually not thrown a game-killing interception in the playoffs, just as Favre did in his last snap as a Packer...
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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With that said, the Bears suck.
Well, those Bears still did manage to beat the Vikings last year, whereas we lost both games against those grape *******.
Had we beaten them once like the Bears did, we would have won the division.
Let's keep it real here.

Cutler is Jeckyl & Hyde though for sure. Often in the same game.
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Old 08-31-2010, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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1- Peyton
2- Brees
3- Brady
4- Rivers
5- Rodgers
6- Roethlisberger
7- Eli
8- Romo
9- Schaub
10- McNabb

Brett Favre is one of the most overrated players in the history of football. I admire his durability, but he's not in the same class as the greats of yesteryear (Marino, Montana, Elway, etc.) and he's not as good as the elite guys right now.

Had McNabb been traded to the Vikings prior to last season, he would've helped them to similar regular season dominance and may have actually not thrown a game-killing interception in the playoffs, just as Favre did in his last snap as a Packer...
That's all true, but there's no way McNabb would have racked up the statistics that Benedict Favre did last year, or ever has. But in the playoffs, you are right, Farve always has done his best to wait til the last second and throw a season away with a freshman-like terrible mistake.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
That's all true, but there's no way McNabb would have racked up the statistics that Benedict Favre did last year, or ever has. But in the playoffs, you are right, Farve always has done his best to wait til the last second and throw a season away with a freshman-like terrible mistake.
Instead, McNabb would have puked all over the field because he was so dehydrated from partying all week.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ThePudge View Post

32. Trent Edwards - Bills

If Byron Leftwich/Matt Leinart were to be included they'd be behind Edwards for me.
Thank you. I couldn't care less if everybody had Edwards at 32, but he is at least better than Byron Leftwich. On a good day I'd argue him against Derek Anderson, but I see no need for that.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:33 PM    (permalink
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I definitely wouldn't say Edwards is better than Leftwich. Leftwich has far superior field vision and is capable/isn't afraid of throwing the deep ball. His issues strictly come down to his release and mobility.

Leftwich isn't a bad quarterback by any means. He's just not good.

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Old 08-31-2010, 06:35 PM    (permalink
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I would rather have Edwards. Leftwich sucks donkey dick.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:36 PM    (permalink
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Ninja edit ftw.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Wrong


Today, 05:35 PM (permalink)
Shiver

Last edited by yourfavestoner : Today at 05:36 PM.
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:40 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjsunstein View Post
A guy that will undoubtably jump up all of these lists next year will be Jay Cutler. Pains me to say it but he's going to make remarkable strides (stat wise) in the Mike Martz offese. He doesn't have a true number one but a reciever out of the backfield, solid high upside TE, and a couple guys I personally like (individually, of course) at WR. Completely unbiased opinion here.

Then again, the same argument can be made against him in this pass happy offense. Cutler's physical tools aren't questioned, it's his head and in an offense as gimmicky as this, his confidence should be through the roof.

With that said, the Bears suck.
Doesn't he have to wave bye bye to catching passes in Martz system?
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Old 08-31-2010, 06:52 PM    (permalink
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If I was asked to pick a QB for this season I would go

1. Peyton
2. Brees

3. Rodgers
4. Rivers
5. Brady

6. Romo
7. Roethlisberger
8. Favre
9. Schaub
10. McNabb

11. Eli
12. Flacco
13. Ryan
14. Palmer
15. Hasselbeck (if fully healthy but that is a huge if)
16. Orton

17. Cutler
18. Henne
19. Kolb
20. Smith
21. Young
22. Campbell
23. Stafford
24. Freeman
25. Garrard
26. Bradford
27. Cassel
28. Sanchez
29. Leinart/Anderson
30. Moore
31. Delhomme
32. Edwards
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