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Old 09-02-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
Don Vito
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31 teams will regret passing on Hardy. Fact.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:31 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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For at least 4 games that is. Bc after that, his potential to get injured increases exponentially.

But for a 6th round pick? Well worth it.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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I like Vernon. Thanks to the similarities to him we could grab Thaddeus Lewis in the 4th :)
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
He's been a bust for a while. Huge disappointment. A very small minority think he would do better in a 4-3 with his hand in the ground.
I'd say most people acknowledge that he could do no worse in a 4-3 as a DE. I doubt he'd ever "break out", but he'd certainly do more than he is right now.

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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
I haven't watched any Rams preseason but a quick google says he looked good in scrimmages but has a leg injury that kept him out of at least one preseason game vs. the Pats.

I agree about Atkins, I really wanted the Colts to grab him. Him or Lamarr Houston. Or Brian Price. Damn what a DT class.
Yeah this was a sick class, Brian Price is going to be a monster. Watching him play I thought I was watching a young Sed Ellis, he's so quick out of his stance and does a great job attacking lineman low and blowing them back. He still needs some beefing up and he needs to work on not leaning as much so he doesn't end up on the ground as much but at his peak that guy's going to be a beast. I still regret the giants not trading Osi for the Rams second rounder and grabbing both Price and Joseph to go with JPP in the first and Hardy in the 6th. Our DL would be a dominant force going forward.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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I'd say most people acknowledge that he could do no worse in a 4-3 as a DE. I doubt he'd ever "break out", but he'd certainly do more than he is right now.



Yeah this was a sick class, Brian Price is going to be a monster. Watching him play I thought I was watching a young Sed Ellis, he's so quick out of his stance and does a great job attacking lineman low and blowing them back. He still needs some beefing up and he needs to work on not leaning as much so he doesn't end up on the ground as much but at his peak that guy's going to be a beast. I still regret the giants not trading Osi for the Rams second rounder and grabbing both Price and Joseph to go with JPP in the first and Hardy in the 6th. Our DL would be a dominant force going forward.
I remember you were pimping Price hard and I wasn't a fan of his, and I was pimping Geno hard and you weren't a fan of his.

I guess we were both right and wrong.

I liked Joseph and Troup a lot too. I thought Troup would be better value bc I thought he'd go in round 3, but Buffalo reached for him.

This was a great draft to overhaul your defensive line. I firmly believe that moving forward, its going to be easier to build a 4-3 defense than a 3-4.

Just look at guys like Daryl Washington, Geno Atkins, Brian Price, Hardy, Michael Johnson, Houston, Carlos Dunlap. Lots of quality 4-3 guys are falling in the draft nowadays.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:46 PM    (permalink
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Bucs are going to have a scary interior pass rush in a year or two with McCoy and Price.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
He is the ultimate workout warrior. He rose, not based on what he did in college, but on his amazing combine and triangle numbers. The guy was a phantom at Ohio State when they got passed their non-conference cupcakes. He is a phantom in the NFL. But man were his biceps huge! Man could he run a 4.5.
I'm going to disagree with this. As far as I remember, he really didn't rise much after the combine. People knew what he could do physically prior to the combine, not like he really surprised anybody. And at least with quite a few people on this site if not the majority he was a top 10 guy before the season was even over. I remember thinking he might not reach the Jets if he exploded during the national championship game that year, which he didn't, based on where his stock seemed to be.

Now is he a bust? Absolutely as of right now, although BBD is correct he is moving in the right direction. I could see him being a rock solid backup end and I don't think that's unrealistic right now, which is obviously would still make him a big bust based on where he was drafted. But I don't think he was a workout warrior or he rose based on his combine. He was a highly regarded prospect because he put up nice numbers and people knew he had tremendous physical potential, but he I don't think anything changed based on his combine workouts, he was the exact same player.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:53 PM    (permalink
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Gholston's going to be fine. If there's one thing I hate about sports today it's how quickly young guys are labeled with the b-word. That word is ********, and cheaper than a 2 dollar hoowah now. EVERYONE knew heading into the '08 draft that he was probably not going to set the world on fire immediately...somehow when it happened people were surprised anyway and the surprise quickly turned to anger and then hate. It's weird to watch.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Gholston's going to be fine. If there's one thing I hate about sports today it's how quickly young guys are labeled with the b-word. That word is ********, and cheaper than a 2 dollar hoowah now.
He was the #6 pick and has yet to record a sack. As of right now, he absolutely is a bust.
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I remember you were pimping Price hard and I wasn't a fan of his, and I was pimping Geno hard and you weren't a fan of his.

I guess we were both right and wrong.

I liked Joseph and Troup a lot too. I thought Troup would be better value bc I thought he'd go in round 3, but Buffalo reached for him.

This was a great draft to overhaul your defensive line. I firmly believe that moving forward, its going to be easier to build a 4-3 defense than a 3-4.

Just look at guys like Daryl Washington, Geno Atkins, Brian Price, Hardy, Michael Johnson, Houston, Carlos Dunlap. Lots of quality 4-3 guys are falling in the draft nowadays.
It's not that I didn't like Geno, I just thought he had under-achieved throughout his college career and was infatuated with Price.

I don't know if Buffalo reached for Troup. He was a legit second round prospect because he's going to be a good 3-4 NT, he's not as polished as Dan Williams but he has similar upside and Buffalo desperately needed a hard working Nose to develop as the anchor of their new 3-4. I would've loved him in the 3rd rounder but I've found that if I love a player at a certain spot it's often that they go well above that spot because someone else likes them at that higher spot. Ergo I like him as a second rounder, although I would've loved him as a third rounder.

Plus I really don't think Cody is going to work out, even with the Ravens with Ngata, Gregg and Ray there to be on his ass, that's a great spot for him, but he's not just raw, he's raw, unmotivated and unfocused. And Buffalo is at a point right now where they can't take big character risks. They can wait for projects to come together but they really can't have their locker-room become filled with poorly motivated and unfocused bums if this rebuild is to have any lasting success.

That's actually why I'm one of the few non-true-bills fans who didn't get on the team for passing on Anthony Davis. I think Davis is going to be a stud for the 9ers, but I think there's a good chance he could've become another Jason Peters for the Bills, a guy who came along and quickly became a beast who the fans fell in love with but became complacent being on a rebuilding team in Buffalo and hurt the locker-room because he wanted out.

4-3 DL talent is falling and the slide of many penetrating UTs in this years draft proves it. Since the DL is by far the most important part of a 4-3 this is going to be a great time to be running a 4-3. Which is why I think going forward the Giants, Bengals and Titans could be running 3 of the most dominant defenses in the League. Although I worry that we might starting seeing the best values at LB being tampa-2 style LBs who have no place in the 3-4, which is a scheme we both really hate.

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Bucs are going to have a scary interior pass rush in a year or two with McCoy and Price.
Yeah, that duo's going to be awesome. But who do you guys have at the ends who you feel comfortable as a starter moving forward?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.

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Old 09-02-2010, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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He was the #6 pick and has yet to record a sack. As of right now, he absolutely is a bust.
Yes, I understand that's how it works. I just think it's hacky in the long run.

Quote:
31 teams will regret passing on Hardy. Fact.
+1,000,000

Hardy could and did dominate SEC ball at 80%....I understand why he fell but the 6th? Steal of the draft...
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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I like strong, concise, clear statements like that.
How is Gholston big enough to play DE now? Has he bulked up a lot?
Wise guy ehhh?
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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He was the #6 pick and has yet to record a sack. As of right now, he absolutely is a bust.
He has like a total of 30 tackles in his career.
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Old 09-04-2010, 08:16 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, that duo's going to be awesome. But who do you guys have at the ends who you feel comfortable as a starter moving forward?
Robert Quinn.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:02 AM    (permalink
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31 teams will regret passing on Hardy. Fact.
Even the Panthers passed on him FOUR TIMES. Fact.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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hes back to playing his natural position.
I highly doubt that anyone other than Nostradamus would've said that 3-4 DE is his "natural" position. Just because the words "Defensive End" are included in his position title doesn't mean that 4-3 DE and 3-4 DE are very similar.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Robert Quinn.
lol, fair enough. I was curious to know if Moore or one of your current ends had shown something to believe he could be long term starter.
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Originally Posted by AcheTen View Post
JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Originally Posted by JBCX View Post
Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:12 AM    (permalink
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It's easy to forget now how he absolutely ate Jake Long for lunch in that 07 game. He's gotta be able to at least flash a little talent in the NFL? I can't believe he could be that bad.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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It's easy to forget now how he absolutely ate Jake Long for lunch in that 07 game. He's gotta be able to at least flash a little talent in the NFL? I can't believe he could be that bad.
actually he only beat Jake once. He was matched up against Steve Schilling most of the game.
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Old 09-04-2010, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Robert Quinn.
If that happened, the Bucs could have the top line in the NFL in 4 years. Maybe even trade a 7th for gholston and put him at LDE.
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:12 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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actually he only beat Jake once. He was matched up against Steve Schilling most of the game.
LOL, where is Steve Schilling now?
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Old 09-04-2010, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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actually he only beat Jake once. He was matched up against Steve Schilling most of the game.
well wasn't that the only sack Jake Long gave up all year?
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:19 AM    (permalink
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Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:22 AM    (permalink
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Vernon just can't play standing up it seems. If he's playing decently at 3-4 DE, that really just shows he should have his hand in the dirt.

I'd still chance it with him with a late rounder and try him at DE. If he's hanging at 3-4 DE, he's at least good enough to factor into the run game, and guys that are that fast that are already impacting the run game could turn into something nice.
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Old 09-05-2010, 03:41 PM    (permalink
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If that happened, the Bucs could have the top line in the NFL in 4 years. Maybe even trade a 7th for gholston and put him at LDE.
Very exciting times. I can't stress how good I feel about our last two drafts. There's a big difference between just getting younger and actually adding young talent, which is what we've been doing methodically.
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