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Old 10-22-2010, 06:58 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
You mean Peyton plays better in the post season, while running laps around Brady in the regular season? The Manning haters sure are gonna hate this post.
Manning:
18 games (9-9)
435-692
62.9%
5,164 yds
28 TDs
19 INTs
7.46 ypa
87.6 QB rating
1-1 Super Bowl record (1 MVP)


Brady:
18 games (14-4)
395-637
62.0%
4,108 yds
28 TDs
15 INTs
6.45 ypa
85.5 QB rating
3-1 Super Bowl record (2 MVP)

How do you work out that Manning plays better in the postseason than Brady?

It must be the extra .9% completion percentage. It bears no relevance of who he was throwing to all those years or that Brady only had elite weapons for two years in the postseason(4 games). Oh, or it must be the passer rating which is definitely the best way to determine how well a QB plays and is a massive 2.1 points above Brady. Or wait I know it must be all the TDs he's thrown more of than Brady...oh wait, or the fact he's thrown less INTs...oh wait, or it must be he has a better playoff record than Brady...oh wait, or at least he's won more Superbowls than Brady...oh wait, or that he's won more Superbowl MVP awards than Brady...oh wait.

OK you got me. Im stumped, Ive gotta ask. How the hell is Manning better than Brady in the postseason?
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Old 10-22-2010, 07:45 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I never said you compared them as being a CB, but you brought up a stupid point. You started talking about guys who you could make an argument for that are better return men like that meant something. Every person you listed made a living as a return man, Deion made a living as a CB and shutting down WR's, he doubled as a return man. What was the point of you bringing up guys who were good at doing 1 thing well in a thread talking about the top 100 players of all time?'



But yea, keep being coy and trying to act like a 12 year older since you "demolish people". I'm sure of it. Seeing as how you mentioned the names of Josh Cribbs and Devin Hester in this thread. That's about as stupid as you saying how good of a receiver Emmitt Smith was and me bringing up Patrick Crayton and David Patten because they were better WR's, I mean look at their stats!


I already told you I was exaggerating with the comment, I didn't think it would be took so seriously that you would be talking about taking stupid pills and demolishing people lol.


You've seemed angry since your first post about Deion anyway, didn't know this was a touchy subject for you.
Horsecrap.

YOU are the guy who foolishly jumped on his jock as a return guy. I pointed out that he was not really all that special at returning, despite his reputation. I provided evidence, which you dismissed as "stupid."

You look dumber the more you argue about this.

You can't say that he was a great return man and dismiss those who have been better just because he was a good cornerback (albeit one of the worst tacklers ever). That's the pinnacle of dumbassery.


...and let's not try to pretend that my citing Devin Hester or Josh Cribbs = saying that they belong on this list. That's just going full r-tard.

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Old 10-22-2010, 07:53 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
You mean Peyton plays better in the post season, while running laps around Brady in the regular season? The Manning haters sure are gonna hate this post.
I brought up those numbers when someone bagged on Manning before the season. I was gangraped by replies of "NUH UH PEYTON SUCK HE SO BAD BIG CHOKER BAD BAD BAD! BRADY BEST EVER MVP BETTER RECORD!"

It must be because Brady was such a great defensive player. If Peyton had just kept the other team from scoring so many points, he wouldn't be a huge choker.

People still ignore statistical evidence in favor of parroting "common knowledge." It's how bad defensive players can win Golden Gloves in baseball year after year.

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Old 10-22-2010, 08:43 AM    (permalink
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If it weren't for Vandershank, Peyton would probably have 2 rings. Brady never had to worry about that. Also, I'm wondering when the "what have you done for me lately?" is finally going to apply to Brady. He won a lot earlier in his career when he had a dominant defense and hasn't been able to get a ring since.
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:00 AM    (permalink
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This is the thing, while the Patriots had a very good defense at the early part of the decade it was not that dominant. Very good, not dominant. It was no 2000 Ravens defense etc but it got the job done. For example in 2004, after a great display against Indy they gave up 27 to Pitt and 21 to Philly. They also gave up 29 to Carolina in the SB in 2003. So while it was way better than what there is now in NE it wasn't as though they were winning games 6-3. Because Brady hasn't won a SB since 2004 everyone assumes he only got by because the defense was awesome. But realistically it was just very good. Indianapolis has, I think, the best statistical season for pass defense in the history of the NFL but yet Peyton Manning is always given the credit for carrying his team.

And as for the point of Manning being a Vanderjagt miss away from having two rings, Brady is a second half defensive meltdown and a miracle catch away from 5 rings
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Old 10-22-2010, 09:46 AM    (permalink
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And as for the point of Manning being a Vanderjagt miss away from having two rings, Brady is a second half defensive meltdown and a miracle catch away from 5 rings
You are forgetting that in the last drive of the game with the "second half defensive meltdown" that Brady choked. Threw a drive ending interception. If people are going to criticise Manning for choking in important games then I believe that Brady should be fair game as well.

Of the 7 times that Tom Brady has been in the Playoffs the Patriots have had a Top 6 scoring defence 6 times. Of the 10 times that Peyton Manning has been in the Playoffs the Colts have had a Top 6 scoring defence twice.

In the 7 times that Tom Brady has been in the Playoffs the Patriots have had an average of the 15th best Rushing attack in the league, while the Colts, in the 10 times that Peyton Manning has been in the Playoffs have an average of the 21st best Rushing attack in the league.

While neither the run game nor the defence for the Patriots was dominant it was better that anything Manning had to work with.
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In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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You are forgetting that in the last drive of the game with the "second half defensive meltdown" that Brady choked. Threw a drive ending interception. If people are going to criticise Manning for choking in important games then I believe that Brady should be fair game as well.

Of the 7 times that Tom Brady has been in the Playoffs the Patriots have had a Top 6 scoring defence 6 times. Of the 10 times that Peyton Manning has been in the Playoffs the Colts have had a Top 6 scoring defence twice.

In the 7 times that Tom Brady has been in the Playoffs the Patriots have had an average of the 15th best Rushing attack in the league, while the Colts, in the 10 times that Peyton Manning has been in the Playoffs have an average of the 21st best Rushing attack in the league.

While neither the run game nor the defence for the Patriots was dominant it was better that anything Manning had to work with.
True but Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Stokley plus a very good offensive line for the early part of the decade while Brady had Branch, Givens, Brown etc. Now Manning has Wayne, Collie, Garcon, Clark, Gonzalez etc while Brady has Welker, Tate, Branch and Edelman. The two years Brady had with Moss they got to the SB once and lost in the playoffs last year. While the Pats defense was better and the running game may have been slightly better, the Colts had much better weapons. Not to take away from Manning's achievements but to say he has been a better playoff QB than Brady is frankly ridiculous.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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We think Manning has better weapons, but the bottom line is, you give him anyone, and he produces. I don't think there's such a thing as a down year for Peyton Manning. He will take guys no one has heard of and make them look so good that people talk about how much better they are than another QBs receivers.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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True but Manning had Harrison, Wayne, Stokley plus a very good offensive line for the early part of the decade while Brady had Branch, Givens, Brown etc. Now Manning has Wayne, Collie, Garcon, Clark, Gonzalez etc while Brady has Welker, Tate, Branch and Edelman. The two years Brady had with Moss they got to the SB once and lost in the playoffs last year. While the Pats defense was better and the running game may have been slightly better, the Colts had much better weapons. Not to take away from Manning's achievements but to say he has been a better playoff QB than Brady is frankly ridiculous.
You make it sound like Brady had nothing in his more successful years. He didn't have the class of Harrison or Wayne but he had good, decent receivers, a far better run game (statistically, maybe not in talent) than Manning ever had and a very good Offensive Line. Brady has had a Pro Bowlers on his Offensive Line for nearly half of his time in the Playoffs, something that can't be said for Manning. I'm not suggesting that Manning has been a better playoff QB than Brady but there isn't the gulf in difference that some people think there is.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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We think Manning has better weapons, but the bottom line is, you give him anyone, and he produces. I don't think there's such a thing as a down year for Peyton Manning. He will take guys no one has heard of and make them look so good that people talk about how much better they are than another QBs receivers.
Exactly. The only reason people mention Garcon and Collie as weapons is because Peyton is their QB. If you put those 2 guys with Jake Delhomme you may not even know who they are.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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You make it sound like Brady had nothing in his more successful years. He didn't have the class of Harrison or Wayne but he had good, decent receivers, a far better run game (statistically, maybe not in talent) than Manning ever had and a very good Offensive Line. Brady has had a Pro Bowlers on his Offensive Line for nearly half of his time in the Playoffs, something that can't be said for Manning. I'm not suggesting that Manning has been a better playoff QB than Brady but there isn't the gulf in difference that some people think there is.
Jeff Saturday has been there for 12 years and Tarik Glenn was there for Manning every year through 2006.

2 Superbowls is a gulf of difference
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:13 AM    (permalink
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We think Manning has better weapons, but the bottom line is, you give him anyone, and he produces. I don't think there's such a thing as a down year for Peyton Manning. He will take guys no one has heard of and make them look so good that people talk about how much better they are than another QBs receivers.
Yeah I can agree with that especially when you look at Stokley, Collie, Garcon etc. But throughout his time in Indy he has also had 4 1st round receiving options, one who is Hall of Fame bound, one who may just be on the outside looking in at the end of his career, one of the top receiving TEs in the game and Gonzalez. All the best QBs make their WRs look better. Look at Drew Brees; Colston, Moore, Henderson etc are all made to look better.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:17 AM    (permalink
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Jeff Saturday has been there for 12 years and Tarik Glenn was there for Manning every year through 2006.

2 Superbowls is a gulf of difference
2001-2003 Damien Woody
2003-Now Dan Koppen

Both Pro Bowlers

Brady has always had Matt Light, also a Pro Bowler.

What I meant is that half of the time Brady is in the Playoffs he has had a person on his line who was in the Pro Bowl that year.

There are 10 Quarterbacks in NFL history with more Superbowl wins than Peyton Manning. Anyone going to claim that they are all better than him? Superbowl victories are a key statistic but they are not the only key statistic.
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Originally Posted by George Carlin

In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.

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Old 10-22-2010, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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2001-2003 Damien Woody
2003-Now Dan Koppen

Both Pro Bowlers

Brady has always had Matt Light, also a Pro Bowler.

What I meant is that half of the time Brady is in the Playoffs he has had a person on his line who was in the Pro Bowl that year.

There are 10 Quarterbacks in NFL history with more Superbowl wins than Peyton Manning. Anyone going to claim that they are all better than him? Superbowl victories are a key statistic but they are not the only key statistic.
Dan Koppen should not have gone to the pro bowl and was vastly overrated. People are now realising that he is a liability. Matt Light while a very good, steady OT was never in the class of Tarik Glenn. The question wasn't who was the best QB, it was when someone decided to use stats like passer rating etc to say Peyton Manning is a better playoff QB than Tom Brady
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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You said this...
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Originally Posted by Seamus2602
Brady has had a Pro Bowlers on his Offensive Line for nearly half of his time in the Playoffs, something that can't be said for Manning
You're right, it's been 100% of the time. Tarik Glenn was there when Manning was drafted and Saturday arrived the year after Manning.

As for this
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Originally Posted by Seamus2602 View Post
There are 10 Quarterbacks in NFL history with more Superbowl wins than Peyton Manning. Anyone going to claim that they are all better than him.
In terms of the playoffs, which is what was being discussed, yes. They are all better in the playoffs than Manning.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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But this thread isn't about who is the better Playoff QB. It is about who is the better between the two. The discussion started when people starting crying that Manning is going to finish ahead of Brady in the Top 100. Someone argued that because Brady's record in the playoffs is better he should be higher. Someone else argued that Manning was, in terms of yards, ypa and passer rating, better than Brady in the Playoffs. The discussion then turned to whether those stats are reliable.

Passer Rating is as reliable to the ability of a Quarterback as Superbowl rings are. If it was all about rings then Terry Bradshaw would be better than John Elway. We all know that isn't true.

Brady has been better in the playoffs than Manning. Not signficantly better but better. I don't believe that Brady's slightly better play in the playoffs offsets Manning's significantly better play in the Regular Season.
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In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
In terms of the playoffs, which is what was being discussed, yes. They are all better in the playoffs than Manning.
That's nonesense. By that idea Trent Dilfer is as good a playoff Quarterback as Peyton Manning. As good as Drew Brees.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin

In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Seamus2602 View Post
Brady has been better in the playoffs than Manning. Not signficantly better but better. I don't believe that Brady's slightly better play in the playoffs offsets Manning's significantly better play in the Regular Season.
2 more Superbowls, 5 more wins, and 5 less losses makes Tom Brady significantly better than Manning in the playoffs.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Seamus2602 View Post
That's nonesense. By that idea Trent Dilfer is as good a playoff Quarterback as Peyton Manning. As good as Drew Brees.
You can fluke your way into 1 Super Bowl victory like Trent Dilfer did, but no one has fluked their way into 2+.

Joe Montana, Terry Bradshaw, Troy Aikman, Tom Brady, John Elway, Ben Roethlisberger, Bob Griese, Jim Plunkett, Roger Staubach, and Bart Starr are all better playoff QBs than Peyton Manning.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
2 more Superbowls, 5 more wins, and 5 less losses makes Tom Brady significantly better than Manning in the playoffs.
I think a really, really understated fact is that you can only lose once per postseason. I'm pretty sure something like 6 or 7 of the Manning's playoff appearances have been one-and-done.

I will admit, though, that Brady's shine from earlier in his career is wearing off a little bit. He needs to win some postseason games this year.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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2 more Superbowls, 5 more wins, and 5 less losses makes Tom Brady significantly better than Manning in the playoffs.
There is more to a player than winning. Is Charles Haley the best playoff player of all time? Other things come into it. There are reasons that Tom Brady has lost only 4 times and Peyton Manning has lost 9 times and not all of those reasons have anything to do with either Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.
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Originally Posted by George Carlin

In Football the object is for the Field General to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the Defence by hitting his Receivers with deadly accuracy, in spite of the Blitz, even if he has to use the Shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack which punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy’s Defensive Line.

In Baseball the object is to go home and be safe.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Tom Brady since becoming QB for the Patriots has been one and done once in the playoffs once(last year). He has lost one playoff game at home in that time(last year). His four playoff losses have been the wildcard round at home to Baltimore(2009), the Superbowl against the Giants(2007), the conference championship game at Indianapolis(2006) and the divisonal round game against Denver at Invesco Field(2005). Two of those teams went on to win the Superbowl. In 18 games to lose once at home, once at a neutral site, and twice away is a good record if you ask me. They were only defeated heavily in that period once(last year), beaten relatively solidly once(2005 by Denver) and lost the other two by a combined 7 points. Tom Brady will go down as the best playoff QB of his generation unless Roethelisberger has a strong end to his career and Brady doesn't, and he will be considered in the top 5 all time playoff QBs if not top 3. Manning will not even be considered in the top 10 playoff QBs all time
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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Does anyone else wonder if Ray Lewis is going to be left off this list? I mean I would have guessed he would have been in the 30-40 range. I would be a little surprised if he is in the top 20
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Does anyone else wonder if Ray Lewis is going to be left off this list? I mean I would have guessed he would have been in the 30-40 range. I would be a little surprised if he is in the top 20
He'll be on it... they will just overrate him
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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In this thread, we pretend that when a team loses in the playoffs, it's the quarterback's fault.

So basically, Dan Marino is a piece of under-.500 garbage.
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