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Old 09-19-2013, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Hopefully a sign of things to come with JRPGs with Agarest being ported over to Steam in a couple weeks. I'm excited.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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So apparently my mouse is broken. Argh. I think I might get another Logitech Performance MX. It was so nice and lasted so long. I just hate spending so much on a mouse though.

I was looking at the Logitech G700 too but I'm not a fan of all the buttons on it. It's a bit too much for me.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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Ok, maybe you all have some ideas. Im having an issue with my sons computer. I posted this on the Geforce help forums but no one replied.

When I start up or restart my computer I have to unplug the monitor cable from the back of my video card for the computer to boot up. And its the computer and not windows(7) because with the card plugged in I cant even get to the boot menu to go into safe mode. When I just plug the monitor into the board it starts up just fine.

If I unplug the monitor, start up my computer and plug it back in after windows boots up, it works just fine.

I have already tried uninstalling and re-installing all of the most current drivers. Scanned for boot errors on my pc and I dont see any spikes in the power supply. Any suggestions?

Oh and also, this is a card I have been using in this computer for the last 2 years with no issues.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
the only thing i can think of is a faulty power supply for a boot issue like that. do you have onboard video on the motherboard? if so, does the same issue occur? do you have a random other vc to test?

i doubt it's software related, in general.
yeah when I use the onboard video card everything works just fine. and I havent noticed any spikes in the power. its a 800w power supply, more then enough juice to power everything.

I keep thinking its a corrupt driver some where but I have uninstalled and re installed and updated every driver thats involved and no change.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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So, Valve is trying to change everything again....
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Mmm. I'm not so sure. The SteamOS just sounds like a small thing designed for people who want to play games on the big screen TV.

It's not really something you'd ever put on your traditional desktop PC from the sounds of it. It really sounds like a "build your own console" type of thing. You can build whatever you want, upgrade it, change it, etc. and play it on a big screen with controller support.

I'm not that interested in it. I still prefer to be at a desk with a keyboard, mouse, and on a monitor.
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Old 09-23-2013, 08:18 PM    (permalink
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That's a pretty big deal even in and of itself though. We don't really know all the details yet either, so I think you're making some assumptions there. There's obviously some sort of hardware announcement to follow in the coming days that may make things more clear, but they're kind of treating this like a big deal.

On the hardware side, I suspect if will be some sort of modular console designed to work in conjunction with this. Hopefully a sweet controller as well. PC Gaming already has a ton of positive buzz going for it and it's more accessible than ever. The fact that Valve feels like it's a good time to take aim at consoles is super interesting. It will be an uphill battle for sure, but these are interesting times and it would hardly be the first instance of Valve creating a market people didn't realize was there.

I don't know. This is also potentially the most interesting thing to happen to Linux for consumers in a good while. OpenGL has shown that it can perform quite a bit better than DirectX in a vacuum. A distribution designed from the ground up with games in mind can only help. Hard to imagine them not having some sort of support for traditional desktop usage as well.

It's tough to say just what kind of impact this will have knowing as little as we do, but it's certainly exciting.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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Take this with three or four grains of salt given the source, but this is being passed around right now and it wouldn't be the first time something leaked on 4chan.

This sounds amazing.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:54 PM    (permalink
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i'm in for a proper way to game on linux. source 2 is obvious bs.
All I want is HL3. It would melt my brain just knowing it is going to exist.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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1 day i will play hl 1 & 2
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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i'm in for a proper way to game on linux. source 2 is obvious bs.
I'm guessing Source 2 will start popping its head around the same time UE4 starts showing up for real.

Valve has been all over Linux. And, yes, SteamOS is for Steambox. But I'm guessing they'll have more than one version of the software.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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i'm in for a proper way to game on linux. source 2 is obvious bs.
Maybe not though! It would make some sense to go along with their launching of a completely new eco-system.


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Valve has been all over Linux. And, yes, SteamOS is for Steambox. But I'm guessing they'll have more than one version of the software.
No need. No reason they can't just support controller through a different UI layer and keyboard and mouse for desktop as well. I'll be shocked if they don't. They've already come out and said SteamOS is for everything too. I just may have to build a small form factor PC for my living room. I shouldn't....but I'm probably going to.

New AMD cards are leaking absolutely all over the place as well. Sounds like they're launching something at the start of October. Looks like they've won the bandwidth war again. Supposedly 4GB and 8GB versions on a 512-bit bus. Exciting times.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:37 AM    (permalink
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That's a pretty big deal even in and of itself though. We don't really know all the details yet either, so I think you're making some assumptions there. There's obviously some sort of hardware announcement to follow in the coming days that may make things more clear, but they're kind of treating this like a big deal.

On the hardware side, I suspect if will be some sort of modular console designed to work in conjunction with this. Hopefully a sweet controller as well. PC Gaming already has a ton of positive buzz going for it and it's more accessible than ever. The fact that Valve feels like it's a good time to take aim at consoles is super interesting. It will be an uphill battle for sure, but these are interesting times and it would hardly be the first instance of Valve creating a market people didn't realize was there.

I don't know. This is also potentially the most interesting thing to happen to Linux for consumers in a good while. OpenGL has shown that it can perform quite a bit better than DirectX in a vacuum. A distribution designed from the ground up with games in mind can only help. Hard to imagine them not having some sort of support for traditional desktop usage as well.

It's tough to say just what kind of impact this will have knowing as little as we do, but it's certainly exciting.
Well, I was just basing it off the statements and news report of it.

To me this was the most telling quote: "Valve explained that the "openness" of SteamOS will allow those in the hardware business to iterate in the living room "at a must faster pace" than in the past. As an example, Valve said content creators can connect directly with their customers using SteamOS, while users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/valve-r...teamos-6414851

Like I said, it sounds a lot like a "create your own console." Now they might release the "Steambox" as an alternative to this as well, but I'm not so sure about this idea. I feel like they're trying to capture a VERY small market. If it is really just for gaming and "living room machines" how much will it really capture? I love Steam but I'm just not so sure.

Would you give up your PC and transition to this? I wouldn't. I like my monitor, keyboard, mouse. And then, on the other hand, how much would I need to invest to make my own personal "console" good enough to play a lot of games? Plus, I mainly use my console for multimedia and games that aren't released on the PC (or are terrible ports).

Likewise, would casual and hardcore console gamers give up their consoles for this? Again, I'm not so sure.

I hope it succeeds and becomes bigger than what it sounds like right now (in the very early stages, mind you) but based on what I've read it doesn't sound like it.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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Well, I was just basing it off the statements and news report of it.

To me this was the most telling quote: "Valve explained that the "openness" of SteamOS will allow those in the hardware business to iterate in the living room "at a must faster pace" than in the past. As an example, Valve said content creators can connect directly with their customers using SteamOS, while users can alter or replace any part of the software or hardware they want."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/valve-r...teamos-6414851

Like I said, it sounds a lot like a "create your own console." Now they might release the "Steambox" as an alternative to this as well, but I'm not so sure about this idea. I feel like they're trying to capture a VERY small market. If it is really just for gaming and "living room machines" how much will it really capture? I love Steam but I'm just not so sure.

Would you give up your PC and transition to this? I wouldn't. I like my monitor, keyboard, mouse. And then, on the other hand, how much would I need to invest to make my own personal "console" good enough to play a lot of games? Plus, I mainly use my console for multimedia and games that aren't released on the PC (or are terrible ports).

Likewise, would casual and hardcore console gamers give up their consoles for this? Again, I'm not so sure.

I hope it succeeds and becomes bigger than what it sounds like right now (in the very early stages, mind you) but based on what I've read it doesn't sound like it.
I don't think you're seeing the big picture here. It may well be about the living room at first(but it's already about a lot more than that), but the potential implications of a direct attack at Microsoft's gaming monopoly is a very big deal. Linux and games have been stuck in a self defeating cycle for years. There's aren't enough games native for it because the drivers suck. The drivers suck because AMD and Nvidia don't care about such a small market share. The market share is small because they're aren't enough games. Someone like Valve coming it to potentially break this cycle is super exciting. More OpenGL market penetration is a good thing for absolutely everyone. Gabe is on the record multiple times stating his dislike for the direction that Windows is going in and stating that Linux is vital to the success of his company. I just can't see them doing something half assed with statements like that. That's simply not who Valve is as a company either. Interfaces on TV's is such a small problem to target and one they've already solved. An OS is an indication that this goes far deeper.

This has potentially huge implications for the desktop user as well. Go back and read that image I posted. Some of it may be ********, but the segments about performance have hard data to back them up. We're all aware that gaming is performance intensive. If Valve can come along and beat DirectX and Microsoft, that's sort of a big deal on that end of things. I've heard multiple times that some of the things we use every time we boot up a game are virtual relics that haven't been iterated on by Microsoft in years. The potential for on the fly optimization on an open platform is super compelling and interesting.

You mentioned cost...just going with the "console box" example, it would be quite a bit cheaper specing out a machine that ran better, wouldn't it? You don't even need a top flight graphics card to max games at 1080p anymore, as high end cards only really differentiate themselves at larger resolutions. It wouldn't surprise me at all if you can get a machine capable of running games at the same visual fidelity as next-gen consoles for four of five hundred dollars. That's a compelling price point when you're also offering upgradability and PC functionality. Valve has already demonstrated that they're capable of building a better eco-system than their competitors on the PC side. They're very, very good at that, even. It's not beyond their capabilities to do the same thing in the console space.

...and that's not even getting into the hardware stuff. It's super exciting that someone is taking a good, non-Ouya sized shot at Sony and Microsoft. The console market is in a state of total anarchy right now. The PC space isn't much better. It's the perfect time for someone like Valve to step in and try to compete.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:26 AM    (permalink
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significantly less than you think. the parts in any console generation are far from top of the line.
Very true. The Xbone and PS4 essentially sport beefy smartphone processors.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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anyone have a soundcard that's significantly better than the integrated ones? i'd prefer something i could plug into my stereo system, rather than just using pc speakers. i had an audigy 2, but it doesn't seem to want to work with windows 7 (i get boot errors, which is unsurprising, since creative never released new drivers after xp).
I have a separated PCB layer for a high end onboard solution, but I'll tell you straight from personal experience that your stereo system will beat PC speakers. I'm not sure if that's what you've already been doing, but the cheapest set of bookshelf speakers will beat an astounding number of PC speakers. If you spend even a little bit than the bare minimum, it's not even close.

As far as soundcards go, the Asus Xonar cards are fairly well regarded these days from what I understand. There's a pretty good sized range of them too if you want specific features. If you're just trying to get audio from your computer to your speakers, you could just go with a dedicated external DAC.
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Old 09-24-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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significantly less than you think. the parts in any console generation are far from top of the line.
I mean, I understand it wouldn't be a FORTUNE, but you're still probably looking at $5-600 dollars. Consoles pretty much always take a loss on hardware so you have to factor that in too. Personally, I don't know about you, but I'd rather dump that into my current PC. It just seems like it would be too much work and cost too much money to maintain what is essentially two PCs.

I'm not going to give up my current set up so it would be pumping money into another PC, basically.

Also, in regards to EE's post: I see where you're coming from. It could have some really big implications down the road. Right now I'm mostly just basing it off what we've heard so far; so my opinion may be a little different right now. I'd love to see someone push Microsoft and DirectX a bit though. I think that would be great. Somehow there seems to always be this myth that "PC gaming is dying" where I really think that is the farthest thing from the truth.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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i bet you could build a "360" for $100. i'd bet you could build an xbone for $200. the parts just aren't that good. the sole draw over a pc has always been that you put in a cd and play, not that hardware. and once you've built one, you don't have to buy a whole new one every two years. you can update a couple of parts, or add HDD space. *shrug*

i don't think consoles are anywhere near as technically advanced as you seem to think.



i'll take a look at the asus cards... and yeah, i have some incredible stereo components, and for a while with the audigy, i had an optical out, so i could connect them. my onboard works fine with the 5.1 speakers, but there's no way to connect it to anything else. never heard of a DAC, oddly.
$200 dollars for an Xbox One? I mean, it sure isn't a top of the line but that seems like a stretch. Oddly enough, the GPU/CPU would be the cheapest parts but other than that you would run up some totals with the MB, RAM, HD, etc. Probably looking at least $400 dollars. Although this doesn't factor in the Kinect junk too, which is probably the real cost on the machine. But it would make sense to exclude that.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Perhaps I am. I suppose I'm just so used to building a desktop PC I expect these things to cost more but looking over the specs of both consoles again is really underwhelming. They both suck from a hardware perspective, haha.
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Old 09-24-2013, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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i'll take a look at the asus cards... and yeah, i have some incredible stereo components, and for a while with the audigy, i had an optical out, so i could connect them. my onboard works fine with the 5.1 speakers, but there's no way to connect it to anything else. never heard of a DAC, oddly.
I actually don't know a whole ton about them other than most soundcards also function as DAC's and that they're a big deal with audiophiles. From some cursory googling, it appears that DAC's may give you better sound quality but lack some of the features that soundcards have to bring out the best in games. An external solution can be beneficial with regards to interference that can occur within your case as well(something that I have experience with. Front Panel line for my case isn't shielded and buzzes like a ************ with any volume) Again, not really my field, but I've heard it's an option worth considering.

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$200 dollars for an Xbox One? I mean, it sure isn't a top of the line but that seems like a stretch. Oddly enough, the GPU/CPU would be the cheapest parts but other than that you would run up some totals with the MB, RAM, HD, etc. Probably looking at least $400 dollars. Although this doesn't factor in the Kinect junk too, which is probably the real cost on the machine. But it would make sense to exclude that.
$300 sounds reasonable for a BOM cost. Manufacturing and shipping probably adds more. If Valve has really found a way of optimizing games for PC hardware on par with consoles, you'll be able to absolutely demolish them with a $400 Steambox by the time consoles actually have anything worth playing.
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Old 09-24-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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PS4 and Xbone are between a 7790 and a 7850 ($120-150). Putting the rest of the system together would total up to around $350.
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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Gabe Newell gave a talk at a Linux convention a few days ago that everyone seemed to ignore until the announcement. Basically spells it out. There's clearly an emphasis on the living room, but the talk makes it fairly clear that the objective is about a lot more than theming a Linux distro to work well with a controller. Valve doesn't create things incomplete ecosystems.

Apparently Nvidia is releasing documentation about their GPU's to Nouveau, an open source Nvidia driver project. That matches up nicely with what we heard in the leak yesterday.

I don't know, I think this is one of the more interesting things to happen with video games this year. Super excited to see where the rabbit hole leads. There's nothing stopping Linux from overtaking Linux as a dominant PC gaming platform. Microsoft has zero interest in that fight. Even if they did, if someone were to make a serious effort and back in financially, they may not come out on top.

Beyond that, the living room implications themselves are interesting. I think we all realize that the Ouya was a joke, but if nothing else it showed that there's an interest in an open console....even if it is with gullible retards who didn't realize it was an old cellphone in a box. It will be interesting to see how they market it, but they're coming in at the right time. With people turning over smartphones every two years, it's a a far easier sell to consumers that tech has a shelf life and upgrading may be in their best interest. You can be damn sure that Valve will price their games cheaper than Sony and Microsoft will. If they can demonstrate that to people in an effective way, that could do quite a bit for them as well.
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Old 09-25-2013, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Valve's just announced what they're doing for hardware. It's about as vague as the OS announcement the other day, but here's some highlights;

-The name is "Steam Machines". I was holding out for Gabecube, but that's a better choice than Steam Box.

-SteamOS is completely open source and usable with keyboard and mouse. Even if that experience isn't great initially, the fact that it's open source will lead to someone making a version of it that is very quickly. Not that it matters. You can install a new desktop environment day 1 with Linux. This is all a very big deal for that platform and potentially PC gaming if they really have attracted AAA devs to it like they said the other day.

-The header describes it as a "multiple choice answer" and goes on to talk about how they want users to be able to chose what kind of hardware fits their needs. Gabe talked about a "good, better, best" model before. This may be something like that. I suspect all it really is is a few different cases and a controller. Maybe some part that aren't directly off the shelf, but they've already come out and said you'll be able to put your own parts in it if you chose. I suspect a big goal of this entire thing is to make PC hardware more accessible for the masses, so we may see some sort of solution to that in terms of how you install hardware and that may have an effect on what kind of hardware you can put it it. Not that it matters, seeing as you can build your own. They've also said that different manufacturers will be making them, so there should be a range of choices in terms of pre-builts. Just like consoles, Valve would have the ability to sell the reference design at a loss and make it up on software sales. They have a far more direct path to software(and potentially non-gaming software too) revenue there than their competitors. That could be absolutely huge in conjunction with the performance gains from OpenGL and Linux. They're also going to be paying far less for off the shelf components than we are. This may be far more affordable than you think.

-They'll be a hardware beta this year. 300 will be sent out.

-More announcements on input coming. This could get very, very interesting. Valve had previously been developing something sort of like the Oculus Rift and has championed wearable input devices for quite a while. This may well be their trump card to compete against consoles. The rampant success of the Wii(and to an extent, the Kinect) has shown that doing something people haven't seen before with input can pay huge dividends. I don't think they'll have anything up their sleeves with the kind of broad appeal that the Wii had or even the ability to market it to the same audience, but getting out in front of VR could really make some headlines and help them find an audience. ....or it could just be a controller. I wouldn't mind that either. I'm sick of only have two choices for controllers.


This is super exciting. Valve is taking direct aim at consoles, DirectX, and Windows in one fell swoop. Those are some pretty big fish to go after and they may fail....but damn it if it isn't interesting.
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:29 PM    (permalink
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meh. i'm so burned out on 'crazy controllers'. the wii controllers sucked. the ps version of them sucked. kinect sucks. none of them are effective tools for gameplay, and they all get in the way far more than they ever actually make the gameplay better. the gamepad works. a keyboard/mouse works. someday, vr will work when it's not just a ****** nunchuck or air-dancing. but i don't think that time is now, and i rather valve not hitch their platform to some gimmick.
I don't think they're hitching it completely(we would have heard about it already if they were), but it's hard to deny that gimmicks sell at this point. I'm just as sick of dumb motion controls, but VR may be here sooner than you think. Carmack left Id a little bit ago to go full time with Oculus. They've got a fairly immense following with that already. People rave about it. Supposedly works pretty well with traditional input devices too.


AMD is officially unveiling their new line of GPU's today too. Some benchmarks leaked a few days back. If they're accurate, the top end one beats the Titan by a fairly comfortable margin and is almost half the price. Word is Nvidia may be scrambling to get something out sooner than they were planning on. Considering the 700 series was a refresh for all but the high end stuff, they probably have the technology all ready to go anyway.
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Old 09-25-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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i think the oculus stuff is interesting, and i can see why it'd intrigue carmack. but i don't think it's ready for primetime yet.

and all that said, the new wii sold like ****. no one bought the move. no one would be buying the kinect if ms weren't forcing it on people. they're massively immature technology that developers aren't bothering with. were i valve, i'd build the box, make sure it could work with most controllers currently on the market (including xbox/psx), then let other people worry about making new devices. it's literally the one thing that will cause me to not buy a system without a second thought at this point.
With the market they're aiming for on the hardware side, it's all about differentiation. The Wii U is selling like crap because it didn't bring anything new to the table. Move sucked and was more of what people were already used to. Kinect legitimately moved units and got Microsoft into a new market. They're trying(and failing) to force it on people who actually like video games, but it was a pretty big success for them even still.

But yeah, anyway. This was from last month, but it lines up quite nicely with the rumors we've heard so far.



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