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Old 09-09-2010, 11:06 AM    (permalink
Vikes99ej
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
I like how you can be in the discussion for best QB without putting up the best yards, completion percentage, touchdowns, or win any superbowls, or lead the top ranked offense.

I thought you had to be the most statistically dominant, or "just win" but apparently you just gotta be top 5 and not win.
Drew Brees isn't good, the Saints just used wacky voodoo magic to win games.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
I like how you can be in the discussion for best QB without putting up the best yards, completion percentage, touchdowns, or win any superbowls, or lead the top ranked offense.

I thought you had to be the most statistically dominant, or "just win" but apparently you just gotta be top 5 and not win.
Stick to that opinion & let yourself be shown up. Anyone that has not forseen a breakout from Aaron Rodgers didn't watch football a year ago. The guy made major strides & is just about as good as it gets in every major aspect of playing the Quarterback position. I didn't say he was the best LAST YEAR; in fact, few would argue that a year ago Drew Brees or Peyton Manning was the best.

People are projecting him to be the best this year.
Last season Aaron Rodgers had good receivers (not great, good) but a treacherous Offensive Line, especially early in the season. He rarely had ample time to throw & teams came at him. Still, he managed to cement his name among the Top 5 QBs in the game in only his second season as a starter.

He routinely torched the best defenses in football (see Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Minnesota)

Baltimore - 26-40 263 yds 3 Td 2 Int
Cincinnati - 21-39 261 yds 1 Td
Pittsburgh - 26-48 383 yds 3 Td + 1 Rushing Td
Minnesota - 26-37 384 yds 2 Td 1 Int
Minnesota - 26-41 287 yds 3 Td

So, in five games against 4 of the top 6 defenses in football he put up 1,578 yds 12 Td 3 Int. But, no, he couldn't have been elite last season... he lost a playoff game in which he threw for 423 yds 4 Td's, completed 67% of his passes, and ran for a Td. Quarterbacks who can't suck it up and line up at Safety have no business being elite apparently.

In 2010 his Offensive Line is healthier, deeper, and has added First Round pick Bryan Bulaga as insurance early on. He has a breakout Tight End in the making with Jermichael Finley, who could likewise rise to the cream of the crop for his position with a big season. His young receivers: Jennings, Jones, and Nelson all have another year of experience with Rodgers under their belt & should only be more comfortable this year. He should still have a pretty strong running game with Ryan Grant as the team's bell-cow.

So, what is the problem with picking Aaron Rodgers to be a Top 1-2-3 Quarterback in 10'? We can all pretty much agree he wasn't a Top 2 guy last season, but he wasn't far off & he should only get better.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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Both of these qbs have to prove to me that they're capable of excelling in the playoffs.

Like YFS said, Rivers outside of playing Indy (who has a mediocre defense) hasn't done well in the postseason. And Rodgers has looked amazing, but I just need to see a larger sample size.

I won't put that loss on Rodgers to Arizona, but let's not forget, before the sack/TD, Rodgers had a wide open Greg Jennings deep to win the game in OT and just flat out missed him.

So they both need to show more when it counts.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I would contend that the Vikings secondary is ******, the Steelers weren't an elite defense, and those numbers against Cincy and and Baltimore aren't indicative of a torching.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Aaron Rodgers is the best qb in the league without a SB.

Its Rodgers, and honestly, its Rodgers by a pretty fair margin.
I think that is taking it a little to far.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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I could care less how many top notch defenses you torch in the regular season. Peyton torches every single one of em in the regular season.

The post season is an entirely different animal.


Having said that, Rodgers lit it up against the Cardinals. But that one throw he missed just bugs me a little. Thats why I want to see a bigger sample size.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:49 AM    (permalink
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I would contend that the Vikings secondary is ******, the Steelers weren't an elite defense, and those numbers against Cincy and and Baltimore aren't indicative of a torching.
Considering he didn't have any time at all, I'd say he definitely torched us. It really doesn't usually matter if your secondary is average-bad when you can get a consistent pass rush on a guy the way the Vikings/Bengals did against Rodgers. Credit his poise for hanging in there & playing the next down.

Against the Bengals he gave the Packers a chance to win in a game they had no business winning in. Aside from the Bears game, the Bengals didn't play a better game all year than when they faced the Packers; however, despite extreme pressure & two of the better corners in football, Rodgers found a way to keep his team in the game until the final seconds.

He's a good quarterback when it comes to getting the ball out of his hands, but he still took a beating last season behind that Offensive Line. Against Cincinnati he took 6 sacks, against Minnesota 8 & 6. Imagine what he could have done with those Saints WR/TE, running game, behind that line, in that dome.... Or just wait to see what he can do this year.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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I think its a little early to be saying Rodgers is on a top tier level like Manning and Brady.

Having said that, last year I wouldnt shut up about how Rodgers is going to be amazing and tear it up. Its hard to compare Rivers and Rodgers because Rodgers hasnt had as much playing time as Rivers, and Rivers has been one of the best Qbs in the league the past couple of years (not to say Rodgers wasnt). This argument will settle itself at the end of this season when all is said and done, and then people can pull up their arguments and flex their muscles and blah blah blah.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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This Aaron Rodgers dick sucking fest is amazing.

Matt Ryan > everyone
Get real, brah.

We all know you would suck a thousand cocks, and Rodger's, to have him on your team; replacing the unreliable, inconsistent, fossilized interception-sarus. you currently have as your starting QB.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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i really love what aaron rodgers has done with his career post brett favre. First round QBs never sit that long and he just patiently waited year after year now he looks like a master of the position out there when he runs the offense. he just moves the ball so good.

id take him over rivers i think, i think rivers is a great QB and i love how much of a prick he is but rodgers just has something about him, especially since he seems to have always had a lackluster running game that isnt exactly instilling fear into the defense and he shows great toughness as he gets the **** kicked out of him behind that line.

cant really go wrong with either one
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

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Old 09-09-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Get real, brah.

We all know you would suck a thousand cocks, and Rodger's, to have him on your team; replacing the unreliable, inconsistent, fossilized interception-sarus. you currently have as your starting QB.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:55 AM    (permalink
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We're all going to find out this year that Rodgers > Rivers but then Rivers gets the sympathy of not having Vincent Jackson for whatever time period Jackson misses. Point being, if someone is dead set that Rivers is better than Rodgers as his post indicates, he'll find any way to defend Rivers and make excuses.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:57 AM    (permalink
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Just watch, Matt Ryan is gonna go for 38 and 13 this year.
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This Aaron Rodgers dick sucking fest is amazing.

Matt Ryan > everyone
I guess it's fun to try to be different for you. Just because he's on the Packers, you're not obligated to make ignorant comments relating to a discussion involving him. Matt Ryan has done absolutely nothing to indicate he's better than a third of the QBs in the league.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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Considering he didn't have any time at all, I'd say he definitely torched us. It really doesn't usually matter if your secondary is average-bad when you can get a consistent pass rush on a guy the way the Vikings/Bengals did against Rodgers. Credit his poise for hanging in there & playing the next down.

Against the Bengals he gave the Packers a chance to win in a game they had no business winning in. Aside from the Bears game, the Bengals didn't play a better game all year than when they faced the Packers; however, despite extreme pressure & two of the better corners in football, Rodgers found a way to keep his team in the game until the final seconds.

He's a good quarterback when it comes to getting the ball out of his hands, but he still took a beating last season behind that Offensive Line. Against Cincinnati he took 6 sacks, against Minnesota 8 & 6. Imagine what he could have done with those Saints WR/TE, running game, behind that line, in that dome.... Or just wait to see what he can do this year.
I am not saying he sucks. I know he is a damn good quarterback. But in all honesty I would take the Packers weapons over the Saints, so that point is pretty irrelevant. And I don't think Rodgers is going to have any more time this year than he did last year.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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We're all going to find out this year that Rodgers > Rivers but then Rivers gets the sympathy of not having Vincent Jackson for whatever time period Jackson misses. Point being, if someone is dead set that Rivers is better than Rodgers as his post indicates, he'll find any way to defend Rivers and make excuses.
Apologies to Matt Ryan for not being better than Aaron Rodgers after 2 years in the league, when Rodgers got to sit for four years before he started.

That being said, Rodgers is damn good. But I ******* hate him. And saying Matt Ryan is going to have a better year is as much fact as saying the opposite.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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I hope Aaron Rodgers does awesome this year. Finley is on my fantasy team! But to anoint him the next Peyton Manning is ridiculous. He should probably win a playoff game first. And beat Brett Favre. This doesn't make Rivers look any better either. To me they are both great young QBs, and I have to give a little of an edge to Aaron.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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Just watch, Matt Ryan is gonna go for 38 and 13 this year.
Okay... Until he does that he has no stake in the claim for best QB under 30 years old in the NFL, especially if you're basing that claim off of something you think is going to happen.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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This Aaron Rodgers dick sucking fest is amazing.

Matt Ryan > everyone
I don't get it, what's so hard about just giving a guy his props?


The problem with that ridiculous statement about Matt Ryan is that Aaron Rodgers had 35 total TD's last year and 7 picks, 32 total TD's the year before and 13 picks. When the mot TD's Matt Ryan have accumulated has been 23.


Come on now, Rodgers has gotten alot better the past 2 years, posted numbers better then Peyton in both of those years Peyton won the NFL MVP, and by all accounts he and the weapons around him are getting better. Why all the hate? And if you wanted to use a silly comparison to end the rant for one it makes you look like a homer who is just jealous and you could at least choose a guy who had a track record that looked decent.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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I need both of these guys to have great years. I got Malcolm Floyd and Jermichael Finley in one of my leagues.

Feel free to throw it all day to Ryan Mathews too Phillip. In fact, that would be the best case scenario.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Apologies to Matt Ryan for not being better than Aaron Rodgers after 2 years in the league, when Rodgers got to sit for four years before he started.

That being said, Rodgers is damn good. But I ******* hate him. And saying Matt Ryan is going to have a better year is as much fact as saying the opposite.
They've both started for two years. Maybe when Rivers and Rodgers turn 30, Ryan coudl have a shot to be the best U30 QB. Until then, he doesn't have a shot. He's not as talented or productive as either of them and they're just getting better.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:23 PM    (permalink
prock
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They've both started for two years. Maybe when Rivers and Rodgers turn 30, Ryan coudl have a shot to be the best U30 QB. Until then, he doesn't have a shot. He's not as talented or productive as either of them and they're just getting better.
Rodgers and Rivers were in much better situations, getting to sit for 3 or 4 years. So criticizing his productivity is pretty stupid since he has been in the league for 2 ******* years. At this stage in Rodgers career he wasn't even sniffing the starting job so you can't compare.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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I am not saying he sucks. I know he is a damn good quarterback. But in all honesty I would take the Packers weapons over the Saints, so that point is pretty irrelevant. And I don't think Rodgers is going to have any more time this year than he did last year.
I would this year, though I wouldn't have last season. The Packers are very young, Jermichael Finley was just starting to put it together. /

There's no way in hell that anyone would have taken the Packers Offensive Line over the Saints. Drew Brees was well protected while Aaron Rodgers really had to grow by leaps & bounds evading pressure/getting the ball out quickly. As to why the Packers OL will be better in 10'? Health. RT Mark Tauscher was sidelined for half the season. In the 7 games he played last year the Pack allowed 15 sacks, though in the games in which he didn't play Green Bay allowed 35. Their starting Left Tackle, Chad Clifton, missed 4 games including both games against Minnesota. I'd say the lack of their veteran tackles definitely HURT the Pack in 09'. This season they are deeper, healthier, and they've added a young talent in Bryan Bulaga who may be a capable replacement were any of their veterans to go down again.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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I would this year, though I wouldn't have last season. The Packers are very young, Jermichael Finley was just starting to put it together. /

There's no way in hell that anyone would have taken the Packers Offensive Line over the Saints. Drew Brees was well protected while Aaron Rodgers really had to grow by leaps & bounds evading pressure/getting the ball out quickly. As to why the Packers OL will be better in 10'? Health. RT Mark Tauscher was sidelined for half the season. In the 7 games he played last year the Pack allowed 15 sacks, though in the games in which he didn't play Green Bay allowed 35. Their starting Left Tackle, Chad Clifton, missed 4 games including both games against Minnesota. I'd say the lack of their veteran tackles definitely HURT the Pack in 09'. This season they are deeper, healthier, and they've added a young talent in Bryan Bulaga who may be a capable replacement were any of their veterans to go down again.
I didn't say anything about their line being better than the Saints. I kept that out for a reason. If the Packers ancient bookends get hurt this year, which is likely, Bulaga will get torn up. The Packers line isn't going to be better this year than it was last year.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:30 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Rodgers and Rivers were in much better situations, getting to sit for 3 or 4 years. So criticizing his productivity is pretty stupid since he has been in the league for 2 ******* years. At this stage in Rodgers career he wasn't even sniffing the starting job so you can't compare.
Much better situations? It's hard to find a better situation than Roddy White, Michael Turner, and Tony Gonzalez for a QB to step in to. If you're going to argue, which you aren't you're defending someone else's statement, that he's better than Rodgers or Rivers then give me some evidence. If not, then this conversation is over.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan? GTFO. He's not even in the same category.
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