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Old 09-09-2010, 01:32 PM    (permalink
tjsunstein
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Originally Posted by prock View Post
I didn't say anything about their line being better than the Saints. I kept that out for a reason. If the Packers ancient bookends get hurt this year, which is likely, Bulaga will get torn up. The Packers line isn't going to be better this year than it was last year.
So you're predicting Rodgers gets sacked 50 times?
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by TitleTown088 View Post
Matt Ryan? GTFO. He's not even in the same category.
This. Right now Aaron Rodgers >>>> Matt Ryan, maybe in a few years it will be Aaron Rodgers > Matt Ryan.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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So you're predicting Rodgers gets sacked 50 times?
The only thing Rodgers is going to do this season 50 times is throw a TD. :)
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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So you're predicting Rodgers gets sacked 50 times?
It could, it happened last year, and their line didn't get any better, besides Bulaga, who is a rookie.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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It could, it happened last year, and their line didn't get any better, besides Bulaga, who is a rookie.
It got a lot better if Clifton and tauscher don't both miss half the season again. What line isn't better with both their starting OTs back? Look how many sacks the Pcakers line gave up after those two returned healthy last season. 8 in the final 8 games IIRC.

How's Jared Allen typically do vs cliffy? How does he do vs a Rookie LT?
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Seriously, Matt Ryan doesn't belong in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers, unless the sentence is "Matt Ryan doesn't belong in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers."
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:39 PM    (permalink
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Much better situations? It's hard to find a better situation than Roddy White, Michael Turner, and Tony Gonzalez for a QB to step in to. If you're going to argue, which you aren't you're defending someone else's statement, that he's better than Rodgers or Rivers then give me some evidence. If not, then this conversation is over.
Did I ever say he is better? Where did I say he is better? Point out where I specifically said he is better. And where did I say Ryan had worse weapons? Point it out, please. I said Ryan started as a rookie and is going into his ******* third year in the league, while Rodgers is going into his 6th, and he got to sit behind Favre for god damn ever. You're reading comprehension is borderline ********. But continue to put words into my mouth while fapping to Aaron Rodgers.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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It could, it happened last year, and their line didn't get any better, besides Bulaga, who is a rookie.
We're all healthy.

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Part of the reason was the ineffectiveness of right tackle Allen Barbre, who was eventually replaced by Mark Tauscher. Another factor was injuries. Chad Clifton missed several games, forcing left guard Daryn Colledge and later rookie T.J. Lang to fill in at left tackle.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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It got a lot better if Clifton and tauscher don't both miss half the season again. What line isn't better with both their starting OTs back? Look how many sacks the Pcakers line gave up after those two returned healthy last season. 8 in the final 8 games IIRC.

How's Jared Allen typically do vs cliffy? How does he do vs a Rookie LT?
Clifton and Tauscher making it through the year without getting injured is highly unlikely, and both are very old. I am saying the Packers offensive line still isn't good.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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Did I ever say he is better? Where did I say he is better? Point out where I specifically said he is better. And where did I say Ryan had worse weapons? Point it out, please. I said Ryan started as a rookie and is going into his ******* third year in the league, while Rodgers is going into his 6th, and he got to sit behind Favre for god damn ever. You're reading comprehension is borderline ********. But continue to put words into my mouth while fapping to Aaron Rodgers.
So what exactly was the point you were trying to make? I was assuming you continued on with Vikes' hate towards Rodgers. Apparently that wasn't the case and you were just stating the obvious? We all know Ryan is going in to his third year and Rodgers sat behind Favre. Sorry for assuming you were trying to contribute to a conversation instead of saying the sky is blue.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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So what exactly was the point you were trying to make? I was assuming you continued on with Vikes' hate towards Rodgers. Apparently that wasn't the case and you were just stating the obvious? We all know Ryan is going in to his third year and Rodgers sat behind Favre. Sorry for assuming you were trying to contribute to a conversation instead of saying the sky is blue.
Yeah, I was just stating the obvious, and you are arguing against what you called the obvious. My point was that their situations are very different, so to say Ryan will never be as good has no basis because you are judging him so early in his career. But keep putting words into my mouth. It makes you sound real smart.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I was just stating the obvious, and you are arguing against what you called the obvious. My point was that their situations are very different, so to say Ryan will never be as good has no basis because you are judging him so early in his career. But keep putting words into my mouth. It makes you sound real smart.
Every situation is different. So by that train of thought, we can't compare anyone because their situation is/was different. I'm not putting words in to your mouth, I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say but I now get that it isn't much of anything.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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I didn't say anything about their line being better than the Saints. I kept that out for a reason. If the Packers ancient bookends get hurt this year, which is likely, Bulaga will get torn up. The Packers line isn't going to be better this year than it was last year.
These two guys you're talking about have been pretty durable as a whole. I expect that they'll both play 12+ games in 10'. Their backups are more experienced this time around, there was an injection in talent when they drafted Bryan Bulaga. Lately rookie OL have done pretty much fine & I don't see a reason why Bulaga wouldn't be able to spell Clifton/Tauscher for a short period of time. Green Bay's O-Line won't be worse, they should be slightly better if anything. I really don't see them being as dreadful or quite as banged up as last season.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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Every situation is different. So by that train of thought, we can't compare anyone because their situation is/was different. I'm not putting words in to your mouth, I'm trying to understand what you're trying to say but I now get that it isn't much of anything.
You can compare players, but if you want to continue this hyperbolic rant, then by all means go ahead. You said Rodgers is going into his third starting year and so is Ryan, and therefore since Rodgers has been more productive, he will never be nearly as good. I said that is a false statement. And if you want to argue that point, you don't have a case. If you want to keep putting words into my mouth to make yourself sound smarter, go ahead.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay's line will give up less than 35 sacks. After last year, it's a great improvement.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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Ryan will never be as good as Rodgers because he isn't as talented, or as smart.

Better?
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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Clifton and Tauscher making it through the year without getting injured is highly unlikely, and both are very old. I am saying the Packers offensive line still isn't good.
When then, it's not a have a Rookie first rounder who looked good in TC and preseason as a contingency plan. Aye?

Also, why is it highly unlikely? Prior to last season either had missed very few games. Oh, it's because they're old? When then by that logic, Winfeild and Favre won't make it though the season either.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Ryan will never be as good as Rodgers because he isn't as talented, or as smart.

Better?
I used talented. He ignored it.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:27 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers's ability to run is one of the most underrated facets of his game.
There is not a single aspect of Rodgers' game I'd use "underrated" to describe anymore.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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And you ignored every point I was making in favor of putting words in my mouth.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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I'll take Rodgers easily.
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Old 09-09-2010, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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And you ignored every point I was making in favor of putting words in my mouth.
You've mistaken putting words in your mouth to trying to understand your point, and you didn't have one. You overreacted to my statement of Rodgers being more productive than Ryan therefore leading to being better, and ran with it.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:27 PM    (permalink
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Back to my point, and I don't mean to knock either Rodgers or Rivers, but I need them to start to really stand out from their peers in some capacity before they get elevated into the elite realm. Aaron Rodgers TD/int ratio is the one thing that really sticks out to me, but when I think of the argument for best QB, all of these guys definitely have talent, but results speak for themselves.

Brady: 4 superbowls, a 16-0 team and another superbowl appearance, led the highest scoring team of all time, broke a ton of records, including the most TDs in one season.

Peyton: His stats speak for himself, you can't **** with Peyton statistically, and his team wins 12 a year, every year, with multiple deep playoff runs.

Brees: The new guy relatively, the other two have been the ONLY ones in this discussion for the longest, but Brees legitimately needs mentioning. In 4 years he's led the highest rated offense 3 times, ranking 4th in the other, he's thrown for 5000 yards, and he now owns the completion % record, and that's not even getting into the fact that he won a superbowl now, and had another deep playoff run... on the Saints....

What has Rodgers or Rivers done at this point to get credit or get the benefit of the doubt? I wanna see something significant that breaks a Manning or Brees record, or a dominant post season run into the superbowl, etc.

Until then, they are elite QBs that aren't putting up legendary numbers.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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This thread is ridiculous. Go get split screen and watch River's on half and Rodger's on half. It's not even close. You could argue Rivers has a better deep ball than Rodgers but he gets beat hands down on every other count. Rodgers has a crisper and faster release, more arm strength on short to medium throws, better pocket presence and mobility, better ability to read defenses, etc etc.

And this is only Rodgers third season starting. And last season, for half of it, he was on pace to get sacked a near record amount of times. And while some of it was his fault, the vast majority was just awful protection. AND if you look how quickly Rodgers has improved on the fault that caused some sacks (taking too long to get rid of the ball) it's pretty incredible. For the last half of the season and especially this preseason he's been incredibly fast getting rid of the ball.

And what's your argument? Rivers had, arguably, a better offense the last few years with a #1 WR that plays to his strengths, an amazing TE and a very good OLine (comparatively, at least.)
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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LOL WUT?

Aaron Rodgers has better pocket presence? That ******* stupidly inaccurate.

Rodgers may have been better last year, slightly, but he wasn't better two years ago when Rivers was by far the best QB in the regular season in '08. To say it's "ridiculous" is clueless. I can't help you.
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