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Old 09-09-2010, 03:20 PM    (permalink
Vikes99ej
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
LOL WUT?

Aaron Rodgers has better pocket presence? That ******* stupidly inaccurate.

Rodgers may have been better last year, slightly, but he wasn't better two years ago when Rivers was by far the best QB in the regular season in '08. To say it's "ridiculous" is clueless. I can't help you.
You can't insult Aaron Rodgers. Not allowed in this thread.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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Seriously, Matt Ryan doesn't belong in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers, unless the sentence is "Matt Ryan doesn't belong in the same sentence as Aaron Rodgers."
Matt Ryan doesn't belong in the same sentence as. Aaron Rodgers.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:53 PM    (permalink
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Joe Flacco's 3-2 record in the playoffs > Aaron Rodgers' 0-1 record in the postseason.
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Old 09-09-2010, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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LOL @ this thread

There's no argument I can make that won't sound stupidly homerish but there's enough GB folks in here for that not to matter.

Basically I question any and all statistics based arguments, and I feel like anyone who has seen a decent sample size of Charger football would too: for my money one of the most inexplicable coverups in the NFL is how truly horrific the Charger defense has been since really 2007. Time of possession has been awful, teams constantly grind it out against the bolts and the 3rd down conversion allowed rate is pathetic too. There's a lot of reasons why, but the bottom line is Rivers has been getting shafted as a result. GB's defense is dominant.

The #s he has put up are still practically MVP caliber but they don't reflect his efficiency and general ridiculousness.

Rivers is something like 17-0 in December for his career, subsequently never missing out on collecting a division title. This is only the tip of the 'clutch' iceberg too, he has been dominant in 4th quarters, although this kind of tracks back to the crappy defense.

If you want to include the playoffs in any kind of comparison it's not even debatable really, Rodgers has only played 2 seasons. Rivers has put on some air raids, particularly against the Titans and Colts, collecting wins.

I like Rodgers a lot but the hype is getting served up a little too much, Rivers has a whole lot going for him.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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The #s he has put up are still practically MVP caliber but they don't reflect his efficiency and general ridiculousness.
Nope...when it gets down to it I've seen Rivers go cold blooded killer on D's...if there's anything to admire more in great QBs it's their efficiency...Most of the time Rivers is quick and clean...And to me he's proven he's got balls of steel for those moments that can't be done quickly and cleanly.

Rodgers is iight, but when a guy is getting this much hype and pub it can automatically be assumed he's being heavily overrated. The Packers in general are the most overrated team in the NFL...that D isn't as good as they performed last year.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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Listen, everyone knows that best NFL QB really means best FF QB, and I have Rodgers.. so it is definitely him!

/thread
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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Nope...when it gets down to it I've seen Rivers go cold blooded killer on D's...if there's anything to admire more in great QBs it's their efficiency...Most of the time Rivers is quick and clean...And to me he's proven he's got balls of steels for those moments that can't be done quickly and cleanly.

Rodgers is iight, but when a guy is getting this much hype and pub it can automatically be assumed he's being heavily overrated. The Packers in general are the most overrated team in the NFL...that D isn't as good as they performed last year.
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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You are all fools. The correct answer to this is Al Bundy
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
LOL WUT?

Aaron Rodgers has better pocket presence? That ******* stupidly inaccurate.

Rodgers may have been better last year, slightly, but he wasn't better two years ago when Rivers was by far the best QB in the regular season in '08. To say it's "ridiculous" is clueless. I can't help you.
Welcome to 2010. It's a year with LT on the Jets, a mediocre to bad OLine for the Chargers, and VJax likely never to play for the Chargers again and Rodgers is in his third year starting and not his first.

Worst argument ever. You usually use your brain a bit more in responses, Shiver.

(And as a note, Brees > Manning > Brady > Rodgers as tier one, Rivers > Schaub > Romo = Ben as tier 2, imo.)
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Old 09-09-2010, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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I've been saying for about a year there is no question in my mind that starting 2012, 2013 or so the ongoing debate every year is going to be who's the best QB in the league, Rodgers or Rivers? They are both amazing young quarterbacks who are clearly in their own league for QBs under 30.

From a football standpoint, I'd love to have either one but I'd take Aaron Rodgers in the Packers offense and Philip Rivers in the Chargers offense. Starting a team from scratch, I'd take Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers is a fking pimp though and I like him so much more as a person and teammate. I do like Philip Rivers' competitiveness, which a lot of people hate him for, but I'll take a QB with passion over a complacent, quiet one. Rodgers is one of the most competitive, clutch QBs in the league, he rallies his teammates though instead of yelling at opponents and referees. The Arizona game last year his defense gave him nothing and he forced his team down the field for long TD drives over and over and over again, making a lot of plays to convert on third down. He was and probably will be the best 3rd down QB in the league, which is pretty damn important.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Welcome to 2010. It's a year with LT on the Jets, a mediocre to bad OLine for the Chargers, and VJax likely never to play for the Chargers again and Rodgers is in his third year starting and not his first.

Worst argument ever. You usually use your brain a bit more in responses, Shiver.

(And as a note, Brees > Manning > Brady > Rodgers as tier one, Rivers > Schaub > Romo = Ben as tier 2, imo.)
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I've been saying for about a year there is no question in my mind that starting 2012, 2013 or so the ongoing debate every year is going to be who's the best QB in the league, Rodgers or Rivers? They are both amazing young quarterbacks who are clearly in their own league for QBs under 30.

From a football standpoint, I'd love to have either one but I'd take Aaron Rodgers in the Packers offense and Philip Rivers in the Chargers offense. Starting a team from scratch, I'd take Aaron Rodgers.

Rodgers is a fking pimp though and I like him so much more as a person and teammate. I do like Philip Rivers' competitiveness, which a lot of people hate him for, but I'll take a QB with passion over a complacent, quiet one. Rodgers is one of the most competitive, clutch QBs in the league, he rallies his teammates though instead of yelling at opponents and referees. The Arizona game last year his defense gave him nothing and he forced his team down the field for long TD drives over and over and over again, making a lot of plays to convert on third down. He was and probably will be the best 3rd down QB in the league, which is pretty damn important.
Thank you umphrey for making a sound, reasoned post. It's clear you use your brain rather than making rash, brainless assertions.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Splat View Post
Good point sir.

Let me correct myself...:

The Packers are the most overrated team in the NFC. By a huge margin.

This time next year the NFC North QB that the world will be d-riding is Jay Cutler. That's right...I said it. Jay Cutler is coming back.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:38 PM    (permalink
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Good point sir.

Let me correct myself...:

The Packers are the most overrated team in the NFC. By a huge margin.

This time next year the NFC North QB that the world will be d-riding is Jay Cutler. That's right...I said it. Jay Cutler is coming back.

No allow me, the correct answer is Matthew Stafford for the next NFC North QB and like Rodgers it will be justified.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:47 PM    (permalink
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I like Stafford quite a bit. Cutler, not so much. He needs blocking and big targets that can get separation to throw to. Most quarterbacks would do well with that. Didn't Derek Anderson make the pro bowl because of that? I like Cutler better than DA and Kyle Orton but his play in Denver and his draft status make it easy for his fans to overlook the terrible decisions and mediocre accuracy he showed in Chicago. This is a make or break season for him. I don't think there is enough talent in Chicago for Cutler and Martz to make any big steps forward.
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Old 09-09-2010, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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No allow me, the correct answer is Matthew Stafford for the next NFC North QB and like Rodgers it will be justified.
Gosh dangit I'm wrong again...You are correct sir.

I think Cutler is this generation's Elway in that he won't win a Super Bowl until late in his career when he's calmed down a bit. They've got the whole smart school/losing school thing going on with their college teams...both are really athletic QBs...both have absolute cannons...both make/made terrible decisions with the ball as young QBs...both show the toughness and mental cajones to play well in the 4th...

But yea...that means he won't be anything special to see until he's about 32.

Now before anyone says it...Yes, I realize that comparing Cutler to Elway is laughable now because their storylines aren't exactly exact...for instance, I know Cutler hasn't been to and lost a SB yet...that said I think there are many similarities that point to Cutler enjoying his 30's when they come.

I hope he does it next year because I'm still a fan.
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Old 09-09-2010, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure who the better QB is between both of them but i just wanted to add that a lot of the sacks that Aaron Rodgers took was from him holding on to the ball for way too long trying to make a play.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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I just want that out there before the season starts.

Rivers is the best under 30 QB in the league that I can think of right now at 5:15 AM.
They're close enough that a case can be made for either, as is the case with Manning and Brady to an extent (wow Rodney Harrison just put Brees at #2, behind Manning, and ahead of his boy Brady).

I'd personally rather, going forward, Rodgers' Packers win 3 rings and Rivers' Bolts win 1 ring, and you can call Rivers better. I'd be fine with that :o)

I actually love Rivers too. Good guy, always has been a leader and winner.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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that D isn't as good as they performed last year.
That seems like sound logic.

Joe Montana isn't as good as those super bowls he won.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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The Packers in general are the most overrated team in the NFL...that D isn't as good as they performed last year.
As good as we performed last year?
You mean last year when we allowed Roethlisberger to to set an all-time Steelers franchise record with over 500 yards passing?
Or you mean last year when their defense allowed Favre 700 yards and 7 TDs to 0 interceptions?
Or you mean last year when Aaron Rodgers playoff record passing day was overshadowed by that Packer defense performing to the tune of letting Arizona beat us and our 45 points?

Our defense performed like crap last year, except against crap teams, and the overrated Ravens and Cowboys, two teams we shut down.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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That seems like sound logic.

Joe Montana isn't as good as those super bowls he won.
If only football worked that way...I'm not projecting Joe Montana's year to year performance with his 3 Super Bowl rings...it was a cute try though.

In the places where your D isn't old, it's mediocre. Tf is a Brad Jones?

Edit: Guy above this post...I should have read your post...so the D just sucks...good to know.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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If only football worked that way...

In the places where your D isn't old, it's mediocre.
Oh I get it, the place where it's old. like at CB? Where the DPOY played?

1st overall run D, and a top 5 pass D. Mediocre.
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Old 09-09-2010, 07:26 PM    (permalink
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As good as we performed last year?
You mean last year when we allowed Roethlisberger to to set an all-time Steelers franchise record with over 500 yards passing?
Or you mean last year when their defense allowed Favre 700 yards and 7 TDs to 0 interceptions?
Or you mean last year when Aaron Rodgers playoff record passing day was overshadowed by that Packer defense performing to the tune of letting Arizona beat us and our 45 points?

Our defense performed like crap last year, except against crap teams, and the overrated Ravens and Cowboys, two teams we shut down.
The Ravens' shut themselves down in that game because of careless penalties.
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On another note, Nicklas Backstrom is amazingly good.
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Meanwhile, in hockey the other night, the Washington Capitals' Eric Belanger gets hit with a stick, loses EIGHT teeth, has an instant root canal in the locker room, comes back out and PLAYS and never says boo.

So new rule, NBA: Unless you have a root canal at halftime, SHUT UP AND PLAY!
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:57 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers is an elite QB, but not a top tier (aka Manning, Brees, maybe Brady) one who is oversold because of fantasy football

Ryan will never be elite. He's good but is pretty close to his ceiling barring some crazy transformation such as Brady's body coming out of college vs Brady now.

Rivers is elite and is basically all the Chargers have at this point but has a couple flaws that prevent him from entering the top tier.

bbd is only bringing up the playoffs because his QB is Eli, who is Ryan-level aside from one 4 game stretch that would be wholly forgotten if not for a special teams player making a HOF all-time catch

Just remember, Jake Delhomme was a great playoff QB until he remembered he was Jake Delhomme and threw 5 picks in one game

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Old 09-09-2010, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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Rodgers's ability to run is one of the most underrated facets of his game.
I'll counter with Rivers' pocket presence and ability to read defenses. It's one of the reasons why he takes so few sacks despite having an ever changing line last year. I think Rodgers relies too much on his athleticism like Big Ben to try to make plays that he holds onto the ball way too long and takes unnecessary sacks.

Really, in the end both are great players and people. Rivers is probably the more consistent of the two. And I mean in the sense that he's usually level in his stats. He has only thrown four TDs once in his career, but he has never thrown more than two interceptions in a game. He also only has thrown two redzone interceptions in his entire career.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:43 PM    (permalink
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Stick to that opinion & let yourself be shown up. Anyone that has not forseen a breakout from Aaron Rodgers didn't watch football a year ago. The guy made major strides & is just about as good as it gets in every major aspect of playing the Quarterback position. I didn't say he was the best LAST YEAR; in fact, few would argue that a year ago Drew Brees or Peyton Manning was the best.

People are projecting him to be the best this year.
Last season Aaron Rodgers had good receivers (not great, good) but a treacherous Offensive Line, especially early in the season. He rarely had ample time to throw & teams came at him. Still, he managed to cement his name among the Top 5 QBs in the game in only his second season as a starter.

He routinely torched the best defenses in football (see Baltimore, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Minnesota)

Baltimore - 26-40 263 yds 3 Td 2 Int
Cincinnati - 21-39 261 yds 1 Td
Pittsburgh - 26-48 383 yds 3 Td + 1 Rushing Td

Minnesota - 26-37 384 yds 2 Td 1 Int
Minnesota - 26-41 287 yds 3 Td
Rivers' stats against the same teams aren't so bad as well.

Baltimore - 25-45 436 yds 2 Td 2 Int
Cincinnati - 24-38 308 yds 3 Td 2 Int
Pittsburgh - 21-36 254 yds 3 Td
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