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Old 09-10-2010, 03:24 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Of course if you look at nothing but numbers the contract isnt going to look good but if you want a guy that can get it done in the post season then this is a great contract. Oh wait, how many superbowls have those other Qbs won in the last decade?
Because the last decade is relevant to now in what way? I didn't even say that I would take all of those quarterbacks over Brady, just that they were better last year.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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. . . but if you want me to bring up numbers on why I think Manning, Brees, Rivers, Favre, Rodgers, Roethieberger, Romo, and Schaub were better last year I will.
All I want is a discussion where opinions are not referred to as facts.

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I'm fairly sure he was being sarcastic.
I think so, too. Otherwise tjsunstein's rank on my 'web-cred' big board drops drastically.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:29 PM    (permalink
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^^^What's that got to do with anything?
but if you insist, Brady has already proven that he can thrive without an elite WR
Thrive? Define thrive, personally for Tom.

I'd like to see his best 3 statistical seasons prior to Randy Moss arriving, and compare them to the top 5 QBs last season. I don't recall even too many 30-TD seasons from Brady other than since Moss got there. And they haven't even had a running game there for ages.

Again, a QB can only do so much. He can't win games by himself.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Because the last decade is relevant to now in what way? I didn't even say that I would take all of those quarterbacks over Brady, just that they were better last year.
Its relevant because your saying he doesnt deserve a contract that big for lasts years numbers when even though were obviously not just giving him a contract for last year, which is still pretty impressive when you consider his situation WITH the stats. But keep pulling up stats as if being a leader in FF numbers makes any difference with how a Qb actually performs for the season.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady's 2002-2004 stats may seem like nothing special, but passing offenses have exploded in recent years: 10 Quarterbacks had 4,000 yards in 2009, 5 in 2004, 2 in 2003, 4 in 2002, 2 in 2001.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:48 PM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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All I want is a discussion where opinions are not referred to as facts.
My bad, though I did think it was obvious that Manning, Brees, Favre, Rodgers and Rivers were better than him last year so I stated it as a fact. I think Roethlisberger was better because he averaged more yards per game, had a higher touchdown percentage, had a higher completion percentage, had a higher passer rating, and was more consistent. I think Schaub was better because he averaged more yards per game, had a higher completion percentage, had a higher yards per attempt, had a higher passer rating, and was more consistent. I think Romo was better because he had a lower interception percentage, had more yards per game, had more yards per attempt, had a higher passer rating, and was more consistent.

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Its relevant because your saying he doesnt deserve a contract that big for lasts years numbers when even though were obviously not just giving him a contract for last year, which is still pretty impressive when you consider his situation WITH the stats. But keep pulling up stats as if being a leader in FF numbers makes any difference with how a Qb actually performs for the season.
So they are paying him retroactively? That is a valid reason for the size of the contract from an non-financial standpoint, giving him what you think he deserved before and all that, I guess, but not so much from a fiscal/business prospective which is why I was questioning it.
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Old 09-10-2010, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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So they are paying him retroactively? That is a valid reason for the size of the contract from an non-financial standpoint, giving him what you think he deserved before and all that, I guess, but not so much from a fiscal/business prospective which is why I was questioning it.
Man maybe you should run the patriots organization then genius since this move just doesnt make any sense. What is Robert Kraft thinking,you seem like your in a much better situation to be running this team what with your buissnes knowledge and all. -end sarcasm, I'm sure something like 28 teams would have paid him the same thing had he been on there team, he put up great numbers last year after a major surgery and is showing no signs of slowing down, espically with the weapons we have on offense. This deal makes perfect sense, you just cant comprehend that because your a troll and think your opinion is fact and that you know more about how to run an NFL organization then the one who is running the best team of the last decade.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Man maybe you should run the patriots organization then genius since this move just doesnt make any sense. What is Robert Kraft thinking,you seem like your in a much better situation to be running this team what with your buissnes knowledge and all. -end sarcasm, I'm sure something like 28 teams would have paid him the same thing had he been on there team, he put up great numbers last year after a major surgery and is showing no signs of slowing down, espically with the weapons we have on offense. This deal makes perfect sense, you just cant comprehend that because your a troll and think your opinion is fact and that you know more about how to run an NFL organization then the one who is running the best team of the last decade.
lol. I am not even saying that they should not of paid him, just that they should have waited. You don't pay someone who was the 6-9th best QB in the league in his most recent season $19 million a year with $48.5 million guaranteed unless you know for a fact that he is back to the level he was at when he was worth that much, which was 3 years ago.

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Old 09-10-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Its preseason, I don't put any stock into it. I am also not saying it was a down year for him because it wasn't, it was actually his second best season ever. All I am saying is that the Tom Brady from 2007 is worth $19 million a year but the Tom Brady from last season definitely isn't.
Thats exactly what you just said, omg dude. Tom Brady outside of 2007 isnt worth the money so no, you are not just saying they should have waited. Troll fail.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Thats exactly what you just said, omg dude. Tom Brady outside of 2007 isnt worth the money so no, you are not just saying they should have waited. Troll fail.
But he was in 2007 so, back to my original point, they should have waited to see if he was back to 2007 form. Look at my first post in this topic instead of my rebuttals to others.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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My bad, though I did think it was obvious that Manning, Brees, Favre, Rodgers and Rivers were better than him last year so I stated it as a fact. I think Roethlisberger was better because he averaged more yards per game, had a higher touchdown percentage, had a higher completion percentage, had a higher passer rating, and was more consistent. I think Schaub was better because he averaged more yards per game, had a higher completion percentage, had a higher yards per attempt, had a higher passer rating, and was more consistent. I think Romo was better because he had a lower interception percentage, had more yards per game, had more yards per attempt, had a higher passer rating, and was more consistent.



So they are paying him retroactively? That is a valid reason for the size of the contract from an non-financial standpoint, giving him what you think he deserved before and all that, I guess, but not so much from a fiscal/business prospective which is why I was questioning it.
I see the argument that a few more guys were better than Brady last year, but it was an injury return year. He is a top 3 QB (though Rodgers & Rivers have to be considered @ 3 instead) and will continue to perform as a top 5 QB. He's worthy of that money (as much as anyone can actually be "worthy" of such an insane sum of $$$ per year) for who is is, was, and (presumably) will continue to be. He's a stud QB.

I assume the Coaches / FO are satisfied with what they've seen since Brady's return last season and through this off-season. Especially since the guy is a class act and would have continued to play all season w/no new deal in place.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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But he was in 2007 so, back to my original point, they should have waited to see if he was back to 2007 form. Look at my first post in this topic instead of my rebuttals to others.
It's a really thin argument to try and say the guy should only be paid as a top QB if he plays at a record setting level every year. That's taking it way too far, but to each their own.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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It's a really thin argument to try and say the guy should only be paid as a top QB if he plays at a record setting level every year. That's taking it way too far, but to each their own.
You are right. I should have said if he is close to his 2007 form.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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It's a really thin argument to try and say the guy should only be paid as a top QB if he plays at a record setting level every year. That's taking it way too far, but to each their own.
I guess Peyton Manning should only be paid 15 million a year because he has never thrown 50 TDs and only 8 INTs.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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I guess Peyton Manning should only be paid 15 million a year because he has never thrown 50 TDs and only 8 INTs.

Seriously, or won three suerbowls. No Qb should be making more then 10 mill a year.
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Old 09-10-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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No Qb should be making more then 10 mill a year.
I agree. No player should make that much money, but that is a different subject entirely. But my point seems to go over your head so I guess there is no reason for me to discuss it any further.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm on the other side of that fence. I think the players deserve what they get paid.
The NFL is a billion dollar industry. They get paid millions.

Another subject though.



I'm glad Brady's deal got done so they can focus on Moss and Mankins
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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If you have a guy that has proven he can be a dominant QB, you pay him whatever he wants. Period.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:23 PM    (permalink
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Brady deserves this. He's taken a huge discount for years. Now it's time for him to make his money.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:34 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiver View Post
Tom Brady's 2002-2004 stats may seem like nothing special, but passing offenses have exploded in recent years.
What do you mean in recent years? Some guys in the 90's, and 80's make his stats look ordinary.

I ******* **** Favre now, but Brady's 2002-2004 stats ARE nothing special compared to Favre's stats of a decade before passing offenses "exploded".

Favre averaged about 35 TDs a year back in the mid 90's when he won 3 straight MVPs. And of course even last year, at age 40, Favre still outdid Brady. And it was the old guy's first year on a new team, with no Randy Moss to throw to. I mean Sidney Rice was a bust til last year. Harvin wasn't even considered a real WR coming into the league last year. Shiancoe was a scrap heap grab from the Giants.

To be honest, and factual, Tom Brady has only surpassed 28 TDs in a season one time in his life. That's no better than the youngster Phillip Rivers. Or Aaron Rodgers thru just two seasons playing. Rodgers low was 28.

Steve Young also had two 35+ TD seasons in the 1990's, before passing offenses exploded recently.

A decade earlier than that, Dan Marino, and even Warren Moon's stats were special.

And if TD's don't mean that much to you, even his passing rating is nothing special. He's only gone over 96 one year in his career. Rivers has back-to-back seasons over 104.
Kurt Warner, who started his career before offenses recently exploded, put up 3 seasons of 30+ TDs in his career, and 4 seasons of over 96 passing rating.

Look, the Super Bowl is the ultimate team accomplishment in sports. We all know that. Brady came thru in those games pretty well in the clutch, and was saved by the kicker and the defense a bunch of times. (And the ref in the 2001-2002 season with the Tuckgate).

But judging complete bodies of work, Brady has been a very good QB, not great. That many stats, that many seasons, comparing to all those other guys, don't lie that much.

Again, as a Packer fan, I would rather have 3 Super Bowl titles in the next 4 years than individual dominance from Rodgers and no rings.

But acting like Brady was the reason they won those games, though, is irresponsible and negligent. Also unfair to some pretty good defenses, and a clutch placekicker who finished the games on the right foot instead of Norwood foot.

By the way, Brady does deserve a huge contract sure. But not more than Manning. Manning should, and will, surpass him. Soon.
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Old 09-10-2010, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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All of the guys you mentioned, at their peak, are some of the greatest QBs of all time, and better than Rodgers and arguably better than Brady.

Dan Marino, Favre, Warren Moon, and Steve Young all putting up better statistical seasons at their peak is no knock.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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# NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr).
# Most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12
# 3 Super Bowl victories
# 2 Super Bowl MVP awards
# Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)
# Most career Super Bowl completions (100 in four games)
# Highest completion percentage in a single game, minimum 20 attempts (26 of 28, 92.9%, against Jacksonville in 2007 AFC Divisional round)[

How can you deny this???
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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# NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr).
# Most consecutive post season wins (college and professional combined): 12
# 3 Super Bowl victories
# 2 Super Bowl MVP awards
# Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)
# Most career Super Bowl completions (100 in four games)
# Highest completion percentage in a single game, minimum 20 attempts (26 of 28, 92.9%, against Jacksonville in 2007 AFC Divisional round)[

How can you deny this???
Who's denying those. They are facts, as the other facts I posted are. How can you deny those?

Most of yours there are Super Bowl notes. So from 2001-2004, you think he should have been the highest paid player? New England hasn't won a Super Bowl in awhile. And they won't anytime soon again. Again, no knock on Brady.

Their teams in the early 00's were great, so he won Super Bowls. The last 5 years, they weren't great, except the 2007 Super Bowl losing team, in which he was shut down like no other game during that season.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:22 PM    (permalink
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# Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)
# Most career Super Bowl completions (100 in four games)
I cant say I like stats like these. Hell, Jim Kelly went to the Super Bowl 4 times in a row and lost. super bowl stats seem overrated.
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Old 09-10-2010, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Tom Brady is a better and more beautiful model than Gisele BŁndchen.

Never cut your hair, Tom. Never...

(PS. Good for him. He's worth it. Peyton will get paid too...by someone other than the Colts. *crosses fingers*)
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Damn Ke$ha is sexy.
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