You knew it was coming... Vick vs. Kolb

[Go_Eagles77]

I've honestly never seen a more scrutinized QB after 2.5 starts than Kolb.

[bigbluedefense]

If the Eagles are dead set on starting Kolb, then maybe they need him to go against the Lions.

Bc the Lions still lack a strong secondary, and if Vick plays them and lights them up, then the controversy is going to be brewing even more.

Maybe you throw Kolb in vs that Lions team, and hope he can take advantage of a weak opponent to build some confidence.

[CC.SD]

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

I miss Thumper.

Thumper wouldn't have come back anyway. I hate to make sweeping predictions so I won't, but with Kolb unproven and concussed and Vick being Vick there is reason to be seriously concerned.

[tjsunstein]

Philadelphia Daily News' cover reads 'Vick Era Begins?'

Love it!

[tjsunstein]

Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77

I've honestly never seen a more scrutinized QB after 2.5 starts than Kolb.

You have no one to blame for that aside from your own fans. It's the Philadelphia way.

That McNabb guy doesn't sound so bad right around now.

[LonghornsLegend]

What would it have hurt to not extend Kolb for a season, and then in the off-season have an actual QB competition and let the best QB win? Who knows, maybe the competition actually helps Kolb. I guess I don't understand why that would have been such a terrible idea, because whether it was just a half or not, Vick really shouldn't have came out and looked so much better then a guy who had been groomed for so long and knows the offense inside and out.

[San Diego Chicken]

Vick is probably going to see some more PT regardless. What I want to see is if another game comes down to a two minute drive, who gets the ball? I don't care how much Andy Reid loves Kevin Kolb, he can't be that confident with him during a close game.

[bigbluedefense]

This is my problem with Kolb:

If he made these mistakes as a rookie, or 2nd year player, I can understand. I'd say, ok, he's gonna learn he needs time to understand this game.

But this is his 4th year. He's had 4 years of minicamp, 4 years of training camp, 4 years of preseason, 4 years of spot duty during the regular season, and 4 years to learn behind a fringe HOF qb. And he's STILL making the same mistakes you expect from a rookie.

If he doesn't get it by now, he's not gonna get it. This isn't a rookie we're talking about. It's a 4th year player.

[Basileus777]

I wonder how much of it is even Andry Reid's decision to make. Management has a vested interest in seeing Kolb succeed.

[yourfavestoner]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

This is my problem with Kolb:

If he made these mistakes as a rookie, or 2nd year player, I can understand. I'd say, ok, he's gonna learn he needs time to understand this game.

But this is his 4th year. He's had 4 years of minicamp, 4 years of training camp, 4 years of preseason, 4 years of spot duty during the regular season, and 4 years to learn behind a fringe HOF qb. And he's STILL making the same mistakes you expect from a rookie.

If he doesn't get it by now, he's not gonna get it. This isn't a rookie we're talking about. It's a 4th year player.

Bingo.

When Rivers and Rodgers replaced Brees and Favre, the transition was pretty seamless. Both faced hiccups, of course, but for the most part played like vets.

Also, I don't understand the Eagles management vs Reid thing. Doesn't Reid have final say on all personnel matters and management just handles scouting and contracts? Wasn't Kolb Reid's hand-picked guy? Wasn't Reid the guy saying things like "Donovan is our starter AS OF NOW" to start the offseason?

[Go_Eagles77]

Originally Posted by tjsunstein

You have no one to blame for that aside from your own fans. It's the Philadelphia way.

That McNabb guy doesn't sound so bad right around now.

He didn't exactly wow my socks off yesterday either. Looked like the same McNabb that choked against Dallas 2 straight games at the end of last season, his new defense was just good enough to bail him out.

I'm one of the most rational eagles fans you'd ever meet, and even I could understand the move when it happened and today. We weren't winning a superbowl anytime soon with Donovan, so it was time to move on. At least we got Nate Allen out of the deal who looks very promising. I know you can't compare a franchise QB with a FS, but it's time for a new era whether it be under Kolb or a new guy in one of the coming drafts.

[San Diego Chicken]

Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77

He didn't exactly wow my socks off yesterday either. Looked like the same McNabb that choked against Dallas 2 straight games at the end of last season, his new defense was just good enough to bail him out.

I'm one of the most rational eagles fans you'd ever meet, and even I could understand the move when it happened and today. We weren't winning a superbowl anytime soon with Donovan, so it was time to move on. At least we got Nate Allen out of the deal who looks very promising. I know you can't compare a franchise QB with a FS, but it's time for a new era whether it be under Kolb or a new guy in one of the coming drafts.

I keep hearing this and it makes no sense. You weren't winning a Super Bowl with a top 10 QB, so the solution is to downgrade to a worse QB?

If you aren't winning with a good QB already on hand, doesn't that mean the problem is with the rest of the team (or the coach) and not the QB?

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77

I've honestly never seen a more scrutinized QB after 2.5 starts than Kolb.

How about after 2 quarters. If Eagle fans think Mike Vick is the answer (not you) they're going to be dissapointed to the tune of about 5 wins on the season. Maybe Vick gives you the best chance to win with that O-line but it also sets back Kolb. My guess is with a good stable of young receivers management wants more of a pocket passer back there.

To get back to your original point i think with all the feelings for McNabb and i guess for some reason Vick then Kolb was doomed from the start.

[GB12]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Bingo.

When Rivers and Rodgers replaced Brees and Favre, the transition was pretty seamless. Both faced hiccups, of course, but for the most part played like vets.

See, you can't compare every QB in this situation to Rodgers and Rivers though. Those two are special quarterbacks, not everyone can do that. Yeah he's not a rookie, but it's still his first year starting. He should be better than he was, but it's crazy to expect a transition like Green Bay or San Diego had.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by yourfavestoner

Bingo.

When Rivers and Rodgers replaced Brees and Favre, the transition was pretty seamless. Both faced hiccups, of course, but for the most part played like vets.

Also, I don't understand the Eagles management vs Reid thing. Doesn't Reid have final say on all personnel matters and management just handles scouting and contracts? Wasn't Kolb Reid's hand-picked guy? Wasn't Reid the guy saying things like "Donovan is our starter AS OF NOW" to start the offseason?

Reid did hand select Kolb, but I think somewhere between then and this past offseason, he realized he made a mistake. He did not want to let go of McNabb, that was a decision forced on him by Joe Banner.

Of course publicly, you hear it was Reid and blah blah blah, bc obviously they don't want to make it sound controversial.

And to get back to Kolb, think of this: I saw Bradford look off defenders more in his first start in the NFL than Kolb did yesterday. Think about that.

Bradford is zomg spread qbzzz and all the hoopla that came with that, and he looks off defenders better than Kolb.

[mellojello]

Originally Posted by Go_Eagles77

We weren't winning a superbowl anytime soon with Donovan, so it was time to move on.

I don't think were as far away from a SB as you think. You're much further away now. You don't divorce a good wife for the once-a-year mistress.

[Go_Eagles77]

Originally Posted by San Diego Chicken

I keep hearing this and it makes no sense. You weren't winning a Super Bowl with a top 10 QB, so the solution is to downgrade to a worse QB?

McNabb is NOT a top 10 QB anymore and on top of that is a known choker in big games. Hell a year ago 95% of this forum was saying the same thing and he gets traded and now he's getting way over-rated.

Originally Posted by GB12

See, you can't compare every QB in this situation to Rodgers and Rivers though. Those two are special quarterbacks, not everyone can do that. Yeah he's not a rookie, but it's still his first year starting. He should be better than he was, but it's crazy to expect a transition like Green Bay or San Diego had.

Exactly. People laugh at eagles fans for even mentioning Aaron Rodgers' and Kevin Kolb's name in the same sentence then use Rodgers as a standard for measuring Kolb? Doesn't make sense.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by GB12

See, you can't compare every QB in this situation to Rodgers and Rivers though. Those two are special quarterbacks, not everyone can do that. Yeah he's not a rookie, but it's still his first year starting. He should be better than he was, but it's crazy to expect a transition like Green Bay or San Diego had.

Rodgers and Rivers made the transition bc they're good quarterbacks.

I think sometimes we overemphasize the importance of sitting qbs and letting them learn slowly. Not all qbs who sit are going to pan out. Maybe Kolb is one that just doesn't have it?

I get the feeling that the general consensus nowadays is we just automatically assume that if a qb has years to sit and learn, he's going to be a good qb. And that is not always the case. If you don't have it, you don't have it.

Kolb just doesn't have it.

[GB12]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Rodgers and Rivers made the transition bc they're good quarterbacks.

Right but not just good quarterbacks, extremely good quarterbacks. That's why they were able to be successful right away. I think after sitting you can struggle a bit and still end up a good QB. A bad first few games doesn't mean everything. I don't like Kolb much at all, I just don't think it makes sense to compare every QB in this situation to Rivers and Rodgers.

I think sometimes we overemphasize the importance of sitting qbs and letting them learn slowly. Not all qbs who sit are going to pan out. Maybe Kolb is one that just doesn't have it?

Exactly. Not all are going to work out and the ones that do aren't all going to match the success of those two. Lower the standards a bit.

[SeanTaylorRIP]

Originally Posted by mellojello

I don't think were as far away from a SB as you think. You're much further away now. You don't divorce a good wife for the once-a-year mistress.

Kinda strange comparison, lol. And I agree Mcnabb is not the most clutch QB out there but he's good enough to win a super bowl if he has a good enough team. Philly's inability to gain a yard when needed or have a reliable red zone target is as much to blame as anything else. Also everyone blames Mcnabb for last years playoff loss and while he did play poorly he has nothing to do with Felix Jones running wild and Romo getting whatever he wanted. Also he has nothing to do with the lack of balance in play calling. I'm not just saying this because he's a skin but if Mcnabb was still an Eagle I'd take them to win the division this year. I think Mcnabb has 3-5 more years as an upper half level QB, it's a shame he won't ever have the tools to be great in D.C., but he' still a very good QB.

[Go_Eagles77]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Rodgers and Rivers made the transition bc they're good quarterbacks.

I think sometimes we overemphasize the importance of sitting qbs and letting them learn slowly. Not all qbs who sit are going to pan out. Maybe Kolb is one that just doesn't have it?

I get the feeling that the general consensus nowadays is we just automatically assume that if a qb has years to sit and learn, he's going to be a good qb. And that is not always the case. If you don't have it, you don't have it.

Kolb just doesn't have it.

Some guys just need actual game experience to learn how to properly run an NFL offense. Like you mentioned he played in preseason games (primarily against backups) and spot duty here and there but is that really enough to have all the in and outs of playing QB down? I feel like he can still improve his decision making (his main weakness right now) with some more experience.

[mellojello]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Rodgers and Rivers made the transition bc they're good quarterbacks.

Haha, I love how simple your posts are and this is a good example.

[Sniper]

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

I miss Thumper.

Well, he's back, so there's that. Different alias, but I'm about 90 percent sure that it's him.

[MichaelJordanEberle (sabf)]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Rodgers and Rivers made the transition bc they're good quarterbacks.

I think sometimes we overemphasize the importance of sitting qbs and letting them learn slowly. Not all qbs who sit are going to pan out. Maybe Kolb is one that just doesn't have it?

I get the feeling that the general consensus nowadays is we just automatically assume that if a qb has years to sit and learn, he's going to be a good qb. And that is not always the case. If you don't have it, you don't have it.

Kolb just doesn't have it.

I agree with this 100%. In fact, sometimes I think it's better to just send a guy out there and see what you've got. It's fairly easy to tell if he has what it takes. Obviously there's a chance you could get him hurt(possibly the case with Stafford, but let's hope not. Dude's a baller) and you won't win many games but I'd rather find out if my guy is the guy before he's right at the end of his rookie deal. Obviously with Kolb, Rodgers and to an extent Rivers, that wasn't an option with a firmly entrenched PB-caliber(even HOF) caliber guy in front of them. But IMO if the option is veteran hasbeen/neverwas or 1st round QB, I'd start my first round QB to see what I've got(See: Collins vs. VY, Plummer vs. Cutler). Like you said, if you don't have it, you don't have it.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Start Vick the rest of the season and the Eagles are lock for the playoffs.
I was stunned to see he'd regained so much of his speed and quickness at age 30.