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Old 09-13-2010, 09:34 AM    (permalink
brat316
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Kolb just sucks. How many balls did he try and force to Jackson? He really just goes with his initial read. Can he read a defense?
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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He pretty much has to come down all the way to the ground with full control and without the ball touching the ground. Similar to what happened to Tampa's Edell Shepherd in the Wildcard game against the Skins, except there was contact in that case (though according to the rule, it doesn't matter either way).

Really, they need an asterisk or a branch off of this rule specifically for the endzone. The instant there is possession (control, two feet), Touchdown and play over. Similar to how the ball just needs to break the plane for a runner crossing the goal line or the "infinite" endzone rule where a guy can just dive over the corner pylon and it be a touch.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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He pretty much has to come down all the way to the ground with full control and without the ball touching the ground.
He did. There's no excuse here. It was a TD.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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To start off, I'll admit that I'm a huge Bears fan so I watched the game and saw it live. At first, I was shocked they were reviewing it. But as soon as I saw the replay, I knew it was going to be overturned because I know the rule. For it to be a catch you must have two feet down and maintain possession throughout the entire catch. He got two feet down, but when he went to the ground, the ball came out. We've seen this call a ton of times in the field of play and no one complains about it. But when it overturns a TD, it's a huge deal. However, the rules don't change just because the catch comes in the endzone.

And for those who bring up running backs fumbling after they reach the goal line, that argument is ridiculous. For a touchdown to occur, you must break the goal line with possession. As soon as the ball crosses the line, if the RB has possession, it's a TD. In Johnson's case, he didn't have possession because he lost the ball when he hit the ground.

The call was right. The Lions were not robbed of a win by the refs. They were robbed of a win because despite investings tens of millions of dollars in a QB, they refuse to protect him and despite having a supposed defensive genius as a coach they couldn't hold Chicago to under 400 yards of offense.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by jrdrylie View Post
To start off, I'll admit that I'm a huge Bears fan so I watched the game and saw it live. At first, I was shocked they were reviewing it. But as soon as I saw the replay, I knew it was going to be overturned because I know the rule. For it to be a catch you must have two feet down and maintain possession throughout the entire catch. He got two feet down, but when he went to the ground, the ball came out. We've seen this call a ton of times in the field of play and no one complains about it. But when it overturns a TD, it's a huge deal. However, the rules don't change just because the catch comes in the endzone.

And for those who bring up running backs fumbling after they reach the goal line, that argument is ridiculous. For a touchdown to occur, you must break the goal line with possession. As soon as the ball crosses the line, if the RB has possession, it's a TD. In Johnson's case, he didn't have possession because he lost the ball when he hit the ground.

The call was right. The Lions were not robbed of a win by the refs. They were robbed of a win because despite investings tens of millions of dollars in a QB, they refuse to protect him and despite having a supposed defensive genius as a coach they couldn't hold Chicago to under 400 yards of offense.
Dude. Shut up. He had possession. GTFO with that ****, homer.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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He did. There's no excuse here. It was a TD.
Exactly, he was down, and in the process of getting up, he lost the ball.
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Old 09-13-2010, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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Dude. Shut up. He had possession. GTFO with that ****, homer.
Being a homer has nothing to do with it. Former head of officiating Mike Pereira said the call was right. Every commentator and journalist who covers the NFL said the call was right. Is the rule stupid? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't matter. It is still a rule and the Bears won fair and square.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:00 AM    (permalink
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Being a homer has nothing to do with it. Former head of officiating Mike Pereira said the call was right. Every commentator and journalist who covers the NFL said the call was right. Is the rule stupid? Yeah, probably. But that doesn't matter. It is still a rule and the Bears won fair and square.
Yes it does, and no he wasn't. By the very letter of the rule, it was a catch.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Okay, so I guess you know more about the rules of football than someone who was the head of officiating or people who cover football for a living. By the letter of the rule, it was not a catch and that is not debatable. the only thing debatable is whether or not the rule is a good one and I agree that it probably isn't.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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The Giants Panthers game was ugly all around. Both teams made sloppy mistakes and tried giving the game away.

I said prior to the season I think the Panthers are going to win the NFC South, I think that can still happen, they just have to be more careful with turnovers, which I think can happen. Maybe this game was a blessing in disguise for them, they'll be more careful with the ball.

I'm not in agreement with the notion that Reid didn't do Kolb any favors. If anything, they babied Kolb the first half and minimized his responsibilities in an attempt to get him going. They ran a ton of wildcat with Vick early, they gave McCoy touches and only asked Kolb to make plays sparingly. And he couldn't do it. He was downright awful in the first half.

I also said Seattle would win the NFC West, and I'm sticking to that prediction. They had a very very good draft, the talent level on the team isn't nearly as bad as ppl think, and the division is horrible. I don't believe in Alex Smith, and Arizona is done for without Warner. It's Seattle's division to lose.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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I'm less biased than someone who has ties directly to the NFL (seriously? you're using Pereira as a valid person in this case?). Anyone can read the rule and watch the play step by step and see they got it wrong.

It's very debatable because they got it wrong. Very wrong. By the spirit and by the letter.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Put it this way - I doubt even the hardest of hardcore Bears fans would be complaining if it wasn't reviewed and was ruled a TD.

CJ made the play and brought it in. I've never seen a WR drop a pass and then get up and celebrate it, and I think CJ deserves a little bit of credit as a guy who probably knows when he's caught a football in his hands. He obviously felt it was a catch. The only time a WR has ever done something like this is when the sideline/endzone line is in question, which it obviously wasn't here.
Yeah, me and my buddy where talking about that. He was watching the game and figured the Bears had lost until the review, at which point he mused WTF they could be reviewing and then proceeded to facebook that the Bears got stupidly lucky.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I'm less biased than someone who has ties directly to the NFL (seriously? you're using Pereira as a valid person in this case?). Anyone can read the rule and watch the play step by step and see they got it wrong.

It's very debatable because they got it wrong. Very wrong. By the spirit and by the letter.
Yeah, agreed. The Lions got jobbed. There is really no other way to look at this.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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I'm less biased than someone who has ties directly to the NFL (seriously? you're using Pereira as a valid person in this case?). Anyone can read the rule and watch the play step by step and see they got it wrong.

It's very debatable because they got it wrong. Very wrong. By the spirit and by the letter.
First, Pereira was saying all this during the broadcast of the game, not after the fact. If he had said this later, I could see how it would look like he was covering for a ref. And Pereira is no longer directly tied to the NFL. He works for Fox now.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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And Pereira is no longer directly tied to the NFL. He works for Fox now.
lol.
----
So you read the rule and then watched it carefully and think it wasn't a catch? I don't believe that for a second.
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Old 09-13-2010, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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So you read the rule and then watched it carefully and think it wasn't a catch? I don't believe that for a second.
I've read the rule and watched it a ton of times and it was not a catch based on the rule. Based on common sense, it was a catch. But based on the rule, and that is what refs have to base their calls on, it was not a catch.

With that said, if the very same thing had happened on a Jay Cutler-Johnny Knox pass, I would be super pissed.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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Saying whether or not the Calvin play was a catch or not in your opinion doesn't do much. The refs ruled against it. The Lions lost. This thread is being hijacked.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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by rule it was called exactly right.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth/pos...call-was-right
So was the tuck rule and people are still bitching nine years later...
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:30 AM    (permalink
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I really wish Kolb was healthy enough to play in the 2nd half yesterday. I think he could have gotten the offense going the same way Vick did (without all the running obviously). Vick's passes were less accurate than Kolb's were, but like you mentioned Vick's legs saved him on MANY occasions which is what everyone sees.

The thing that kinda sucks is with Vick most likely starting next week against Detroit with Kolb injured, he could have a very good game passing against the lions' secondary, and everyone will still be calling for him to be the starter even more.
Kolb played terrible, I don't know what game you were watching. Vick passes were way more accurates than Kolbs, did you not see that pass to Brent?If Kolb stayed in the whole game the eagles would have been beat by like 30 points.
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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So was the tuck rule and people are still bitching nine years later...
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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Eagles-Packers was a tough gritty game.

Eagles got a good pass rush and their secondary played tight coverage but sucked at tackling. Run defense was poor. They lost Bradley (MLB) to injury though among others.

Eagles offense looked like garbage with Kolb. He had 24 yards in a half and should have had 3+ picks (but had 0). Vick looked very good except mediocre accuracy and poor decision making. Their line broke down a lot but Vick got away from pressure multiple times. DJax and Maclin weren't getting separation but if they were I couldn't tell because no one was throwing to them. Eagles didn't run the ball at all really unless you count a the Vick pass-scrambles.

Packers defense looked great. Starting DE Cullen Jenkins broke his hand and has to wear a club. Harrell - our #4 lineman is (not confirmed but 99.999%) out for the year. Raji looked great at NT and we collapsed the pocket pretty easily almost every play even with 3,4 rushers. Secondary played excellent. Charles Woodson was everywhere batting down passes and Traman Williams was doing the same - good to see them playing the football. UDFA Sam Shields did OK for his first game. Clay Matthews, Clay Matthews, Clay Matthews, he looked like 3 people out there. Clay Matthews: DPOW (D Player of Week). 2 Sacks, a third almost sack where he tackled Kolb scrambling for a 2 yard gain with a forced fumble and gave him the concussion, lead the team in tackles, good in coverage, and beat a double team to tackle Vick on 4th and 1 for a clear yard short of the marker. Oh, he dropped an interception though, so A+ instead of A+++.

Packers offense looked bad mostly. J-Mike got doubled teamed and shut down a lot. Rodgers was inaccurate, 2 INTs, wasn't reading the field well. Receivers played well and got separation, especially Jennings and Driver. OL run blocked well and poor but not terrible pass pro. Rodgers had time to drop back, set and throw most every play but any hesitation and he got sacked, which he did a lot. Grant got hurt after some nice runs, Brandon Jackson played the second half - he's our only other RB on the roster BTW. He looked excellent though, a completely different player. Hit the hole hard, quicker, and really strong legs that would consistently push the tackle back 3-4 yards.
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Old 09-13-2010, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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Some of my thoughts from Opening Week. Won't bother making my own thread I'm sure we've seen enough around here.

- I think in Patriot land this off-season Belichick and Brady were sitting around quietly taking in all the Jets hype in the media and just building that to their motivation. I think they wanted to show the league they are still the team to beat in the AFC East. Brady looked to be in prime form with his assortment of weapons including a healthy Wes Welker, TE Aaron Hernandez will make a big impact for them.. he's a Tight End with Wide receiver-like abilities they can do some really creative things with him in the passing game. The only thing that was off was the deep game to Randy Moss.. they couldn't seem to connect on the longer routes, but hey it is Week 1 I expect things to smooth out as the season goes a long as they get their timing back.

I questioned how their young Defense would hold up, and they answered the call just fine. They showed me they were up for the challenge. Last season they looked inexperienced, yesterday they looked fast and broke and attacked the ball with confidence. Belichick has coached these guys up. There are still some questions with the Pats like how will this team perform on the road? Their road record was fairly poor last season.. but they showed quite a lot in this first game against a Bengal team many people thought should be a force in the AFC this season.


- Now onto the Bengals.. disappointing start to the season. With the hype surrounding their additions on Offense I expected a lot more from them Offensively. Yes Palmer put up some nice numbers in the end, but a lot of it was from playing catch up. In the crucial moments of the game, he made some poor decisions, and wasn't on time with some throws. A Defense which was quite solid for them last season was carved up with ease by Brady on the Patriots, and the run Defense looked vulnerable surrendering 5.1 YPC. They'll have time to work things out, but they'll have a big game next week against the Ravens.


- Is there a changing of the winds in the AFC South? Yesterday was a very big win for the Texans against their Divisional foe Indianapolis...a type of confidence booster that can turn around a franchise... but you have to keep things in perspective it was just 1 game. They have much work to do, starting with a road game in Washington next week. Use this as a building block win, but the whole season is ahead.


- Ugly games seemed to be a theme for Week 1, which was apparent in the Packers/Eagles game. The Packers were a pre-season Super Bowl favorite coming for the NFC... They didn't look amazingly sharp vs. a feisty Eagles team, which gave them a gritty, physical game. At times they did show that Super Bowl potential with big plays in the passing game... but Aaron Rodgers also made some critical mistakes which kept the Eagles in the game late. They would have to be led by Mike Vick after Kevin Kolb was knocked out of the game with a concussion. Good teams don't always win pretty, but the Packers pulled it out on the road in less than stellar conditions... I expect them to have a much easier time with Buffalo at home next week.


- As for the Kolb/Vick situations... I think Mike Vick is the best fit for them if they want to win some games this season. Their Offensive line looked very porous in Pass protection, and with Vick's escapability, he stands a much better chance of surviving and turning nothing into something than Kolb would. Kolb looked pretty poor in the little amount of time he got, and showed very little confidence. It is said a team feeds off their QB, and while Kolb was in the Eagles didn't played with confidence like their QB.


- The Titans should still be the dominant Rushing team in the NFL. Yes they played the Raiders but 203 yards rushing is impressive. Chris Johnson looks to be on a repeat quest for 2k... and you give them a backup Back like Javon Ringer? Woah that's just not fair.


- The Jaguars probably won't be as bad of a team as I anticipated, Garrard looked pretty good and confident, and Marcedes Lewis has emerged as one of his top targets. They're still in a brutal division and I still don't expect playoffs from them but they probably won't be in contention for the #1 pick like some were suggesting this off-season.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:37 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by umphrey View Post
Packers offense looked bad mostly. J-Mike got doubled teamed and shut down a lot. Rodgers was inaccurate, 2 INTs, wasn't reading the field well. Receivers played well and got separation, especially Jennings and Driver. OL run blocked well and poor but not terrible pass pro. Rodgers had time to drop back, set and throw most every play but any hesitation and he got sacked, which he did a lot. Grant got hurt after some nice runs, Brandon Jackson played the second half - he's our only other RB on the roster BTW. He looked excellent though, a completely different player. Hit the hole hard, quicker, and really strong legs that would consistently push the tackle back 3-4 yards.
Rogers didn't look too bad, he threw a couple of picks and made a couple of bad decisions, but I really liked how he lead that offense. I'm not worried about his future this season in the slightest.
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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He took some sacks that made me scream and I remember watching Finley run across the first down marker open for at least 2 seconds on 3rd and 2 and Rodgers just wouldn't take his eyes off down field. His accuracy was also inconsistent, especially the first series and the second interception.

I'm not worried about his future in the slightest I just think he played like garbage compared to what he's capable of. He looked like all his early 2009 problems came back and were multiplied.
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Old 09-13-2010, 08:19 PM    (permalink
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So was the tuck rule and people are still bitching nine years later...
still the right call.
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