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Old 10-19-2010, 10:49 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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I can't argue what you said so I'll be the 1,000,000th guy who thinks he's witty by changing your post.
Way to be original.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:52 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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I think Matt Ryan is going to be better QB. He has been surrounded by a nice running game and a very good WR in Roddy White and Hall of Game TE in Gonzelez, but he is still only in his 3rd year, along with Flacco. Flacco I can see winning a super bowl before Ryan is because Flacco has a veteran defense that is more dominate than Atlantas.

You hardly see young QB's lead there team to a super bowl in their 2nd, 3rd, and sometimes even 4th year.

Yeah, Tom Brady won in his 2nd year (1st year as a starter), but a lot of that had to do with that defense New England had.

Roethlisbuerger is another rare talent, but again, the Steelers defense and their running game was also very strong.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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^Truth.

They are still only 3rd year guys playing the toughest position in football. I'm still incredibly happy to have Flacco on my team. They both still have a lot of developing to do and still have a ton of football to play.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:09 PM    (permalink
Halsey
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Every QB needs good people coaching and playing around him. Just because QB is the most important position doesn't mean others don't matter. Arguing this or that QB needs a good running game, coaching, defense, etc goes for every QB. There's no such thing as a QB who 'carries' a team. How can a QB carry a team single handedly when he's not even on the field half the game.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
Matt Ryan is a stud, the Falcons are going to be serious contenders for a while now and he is the main reason why. I've always liked Ryan but he looks like he is taking his game to a whole new level this season.
I know you like Ryan and all, but I'm not sure what you've been watching at all this year if your calling him a stud and saying "he looks like he's taking his game to a whole new level". That is pretty much the complete opposite of what he's looked like this year, while he hasn't been bad this is a pretty big over statement.


I actually think Flacco will be the best after 5 years, think he has a higher ceiling and has alot more potential to tap into vs Ryan who is still gonna get better but doubt he'll be more then a really solid guy.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I'm a hypocrite!
At least you admit it.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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I also admit that I have no desire to get into some long, dumb argument in which stats are spun and definitive statements are made despite a lack of definitive proof. Been there, done that, not interested. It's not like anyone's mind will be changed.

Besides, if you think Flacco hasn't played up to being the #18 pick in the Draft, you're obviously not a reasonable, knowledgeable person in my book.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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I accept your surrender. Let's move on.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:47 AM    (permalink
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Obviously we need more time to evaluate both of them, I just haven't been all that impressed with Ryan. I think his rookie year while great, was a bit exaggerated. And while he's grown the past 2 years since then, he hasn't grown at the pace everyone expected. It just seems like he's reached a ceiling, if he improves, I don't see him improving by much over what he is already.

But again, it's ony 5 games into his 3rd year, so its obviously too early to say anything just yet, so i'm probably reaching premature conclusions.

Having that said, I do think he's good enough. And at the end of the day, that's all you ask for.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:52 AM    (permalink
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Every QB needs good people coaching and playing around him. Just because QB is the most important position doesn't mean others don't matter. Arguing this or that QB needs a good running game, coaching, defense, etc goes for every QB. There's no such thing as a QB who 'carries' a team. How can a QB carry a team single handedly when he's not even on the field half the game.
how is any of this relevant at all? at all? like in any way? enormous scarcrow here, no one was saying the other positions dont matter, but theyre definitely not quite as important though.

youve made quite a few of these absurd comments in this thread where youre hypocritical then create scarecrows to tear down then follow it up with broad generalizations where you essentially say nothing.

and no a QB doesnt 'single handedly carry a team' no one said that that i saw and obvs thats not true, but some teams lean on their qbs more than others so the qb is carrying more of the burden than usual, therefore hes picking up the slack for the rest of his teammates who arent meeting the demands. in team sports no player can single handedly carry a team, but they can pick up the slack of other players and carry a lot more than there share of the load, thus they are sometimes said to be 'carrying the team,' but never single handedly.

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I also admit that I have no desire to get into some long, dumb argument in which stats are spun and definitive statements are made despite a lack of definitive proof. Been there, done that, not interested. It's not like anyone's mind will be changed.
Bolded is a lot like what you do in almost every thread and have done repeatedly in this one. make a generalization or broad sweeping statement that cant really be proven either way or is just extremely stupid like the ones above that i wasted my time pointing out.

I dont even think Ryan sucks, but hes not nearly as good as youre making him out to be and to some he hasnt lived up to the lofty expectations set by his rookie year. hes been above average, nothing more. I think hes got Brady/Eli potential personally, but hes still a work in progress where the progress seems to have slowed a little.

killswitch is completely right here, youre not responding because you cant, youre just being a huge homer then not defending your points.

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Old 10-20-2010, 09:57 AM    (permalink
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Matt Ryan went 9-5 last year, through for 22 TDs and nearly 3,000 yards. It's a myth that Ryan was bad last year. You either didn't watch him or play too much fantasy football if you think he was terrible.

and you said you didnt want stats being 'spun' or have stats coming up because theyre a waste?

hmm interesting that thats exactly what youre doing....
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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There's just no point in debating with someone who thinks Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Michael Vick, etc. are better than Matt Ryan. 32 out of 32 NFL teams would rather have Ryan than those guys.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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and you said you didnt want stats being 'spun' or have stats coming up because theyre a waste?

hmm interesting that thats exactly what youre doing....
Yep, win-loss record, passing yards and touchdowns are just stats. They don't have any meaning beyond that.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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There's just no point in debating with someone who thinks Kyle Orton, Jay Cutler, Michael Vick, etc. are better than Matt Ryan. 32 out of 32 NFL teams would rather have Ryan than those guys.

What happened to not liking when 'definitive statements were made WITHOUT DEFINITIVE PROOF?'

Orton has far and away outplayed Ryan this year. The other two are arguable as i showed and you ignored before.

Really, there is no point in debating when youre wrong.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Yep, win-loss record, passing yards and touchdowns are just stats. They don't have any meaning beyond that.
yeah and his 14 INTs and five fumbles were conveniently left out as was his mediocre completion percentage and average/above average all around rating. leaving the negative out and just highlighting the positives is definitely 'twisting the numbers' just done very blatantly and poorly.

But those one are just stats right? those are the ones that when brought up dont count cause theyre against your case so thats not fair? or are you gunna claim those numbers are twisted because once again youre being a huge hypocrite and homer?
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Here's a definitive statement for you: Kyle Orton is playing on a one year contract.

That's a fact and there's a reason for it. Don't let Orton's marginally better stats fool you. The Broncos would be begging him to sign an extension if he was on Ryan's level. Do you think Matt Ryan would play on a one year contract? Are you really that naive?
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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Yep, win-loss record, passing yards and touchdowns are just stats. They don't have any meaning beyond that.
are you aware that you are contradicting your self so many times in this theard?
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Young, Favre, Vick, Cutler, McNabb and Orton over Ryan? Please. Not if you want to win games in 2010. I won't bother with the lame arguments people will make for why any of those guys is better than Ryan right now. If you can't see Ryan is better, I can't help you.
This is a great post. "hey you dont agree with me so your obviously wrong!".
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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Here's a definitive statement for you: Kyle Orton is playing on a one year contract.

That's a fact and there's a reason for it. Don't let Orton's marginally better stats fool you. The Broncos would be begging him to sign an extension if he was on Ryan's level. Do you think Matt Ryan would play on a one year contract? Are you really that naive?
Its definitively stupid though and completely wrong. and that I know for a FACT.

His contract is given to him based on A) past performance and B) projection for the future. His current pay isnt based on what hes doing RIGHT NOW because when he signed the deal NO ONE KNEW HED PLAY THIS WELL, THEYRE NOT PSYCHIC


What in the name of all things sane and holy does the years on his contract have to do with ANYTHING??????? Are you ******* serious? Its not based on how hes playing THIS YEAR if it was signed in the past. you gotta admit you were incredibly wrong to bring that up.

So far this year Orton is outplaying Ryan.

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Old 10-20-2010, 10:30 AM    (permalink
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We're not talking about just this year, and Orton hasn't been outplaying Ryan. We're talking about misguided people thinking Matt Ryan is a below average starting QB. Guys like Kyle Orton do not rank above Ryan as a starting QB on any reasonable list. Ryan is making franchise QB money on a winning team. Kyle Orton has to play on a one year contract for a bad team.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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These Ryanalizations are even worse than the Vickscuses.

;)

Last edited by yourfavestoner : 10-20-2010 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:38 AM    (permalink
hockey619
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Originally Posted by Halsey View Post
We're not talking about just this year, and Orton hasn't been outplaying Ryan. We're talking about misguided people thinking Matt Ryan is a below average starting QB. Guys like Kyle Orton do not rank above Ryan as a starting QB on any reasonable list. Ryan is making franchise QB money on a winning team. Kyle Orton has to play on a one year contract for a bad team.
Yes were talking about this year, the whole thread is about how both ryan and flacco are playing RIGHT NOW.

Ive said repeatedly that Ryan is average/abover average. never said he was below average because he can make some plays and certainly isnt a liability. maybe that was directed to someone else idk...

Well Orton has outplayed him and been carrying the broncos offense that has no run game and solid but unspectacular weapons. Ryan has been solid this year but he hasnt blown the doors off, hes just been solid but hasnt been on fire the way orton has. hes playing out of his neck bearded mind right now.

Bolded is totally irrelevant as ive already proven and youve ignored. who are you bce?
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
These Ryanalizations are even worse than the Vickscuses.

;)
You're not my Halo buddy anymore. :(
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:26 AM    (permalink
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Yes were talking about this year, the whole thread is about how both ryan and flacco are playing RIGHT NOW.

Ive said repeatedly that Ryan is average/abover average. never said he was below average because he can make some plays and certainly isnt a liability. maybe that was directed to someone else idk...

Well Orton has outplayed him and been carrying the broncos offense that has no run game and solid but unspectacular weapons. Ryan has been solid this year but he hasnt blown the doors off, hes just been solid but hasnt been on fire the way orton has. hes playing out of his neck bearded mind right now.

Bolded is totally irrelevant as ive already proven and youve ignored. who are you bce?
If that is what we're talking about then this is a no-contest. Matt Ryan is better across the board.
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:37 AM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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You're not my Halo buddy anymore. :(
I'm just kidding, I actually really like Matt Ryan. I just think it's humorous that some of the same people who said "everyone just makes excuses for Vick" are doing the exact same thing for Ryan right now.
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