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View Poll Results: Should Wade be fired
Yes 57 74.03%
No 20 25.97%
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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Default Should Wade Phillips lose his job?

I know people hate the Cowboys in general. For the purposes of this post, please put all the brainless hate aside and answer as truthfully and objectively as you possibly can.

Should Wade be fired? More specifically, is he to blame for the Cowboys inability to perform at a consistently high level despite the presence on the roster of the talent necessary to do so?

Please vote and comment as necessary. I've been trying to tell my brethren on the Cowboys board this for 3 years and they all seem to disagree for one stupid reason or another. Thanks in advance.
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He was protecting his self
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From what? His leg?
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
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Old 09-19-2010, 11:51 PM    (permalink
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I think he will pretty soon
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:06 AM    (permalink
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If he doesn't have a winning record this season he should be out. Although if I were the Cowboys fans I would place most of the blame on Jerry Jones (for being an awful GM, avoiding OL, K and S in the draft) and on Jason Garett who is becoming the worst OC in the NFL.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:13 AM    (permalink
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Not that Jerry doesn't get his share, but people say BPA!BPA!BPA! all the time come draft day, and then when the board doesn't fall the right way and you fail to address a position, they run you out of town for not drafting for need. The Cowboys have selectively targeted several OL over the last 4 years but have had them stolen time and time again. And its not like they weren't getting good players with their picks. Sure, its easy to sit back and say Dallas should have gone OL, but *WHO* and *WHEN* is the question. Felix Jones, Mike Jenkins, Anthony Spencer, and now Dez Bryant are all looking pretty damn good themselves. They had Max Unger taken out from under them in the 2nd round in 09, and Darren Colledge two years prior. They were targeting Iupati this year before the Niners tabbed him....and on and on.

Also, we've spent two fifth rounders on kickers in the last 4 years. That is probably the most any single team has invested in the position over that time. So fail on that one.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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Okay so does that excuse the fact that Jerry Jones doesn't get offensive linemen? If you have a need, you address it no matter what. If you really want someone you move up and get them. Obviously Jerry placed a premium on RB, WR, CB and LB instead of OL and DL and that is why the Cowboys are as weak in the trenches as they are now. I mean had you not traded for Roy Williams the Cowboys could have had Alex Mack, Michael Oher, Eric Wood or Eben Britton in the 2009 draft. In 2010 Dallas moved up for Dez Bryant, instead of going for flash yet again why didn't Jerry move up the 1 extra spot to get Bryan Bulaga, I mean clearly Jerry wasn't against moving up.

And you've spent 2 5th round picks on kickers? Whoop de doo. How is that working out for you? Jerry probably should've realized that the one thing Buehler can't do is make field goals. Ignoring drafting an actual kicker in favor of a kick off specialist who runs fast and can lift a bunch of weight is a fail on your part.

So back to my point, Jerry is a terrible GM.
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:41 AM    (permalink
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Fire Wade and promote Garrett already
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Old 09-20-2010, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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Fire Wade and promote Garrett already
He already had two great prospective head coaches on Parcells' staff and let them both walk in Sparano and Payton.

The problem is that Wade Phillips should have never been hired as the head coach in the first place. He's just a Jerry "yes man."
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Old 09-20-2010, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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He will after this happens next week

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Old 09-20-2010, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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Okay so does that excuse the fact that Jerry Jones doesn't get offensive linemen? If you have a need, you address it no matter what. If you really want someone you move up and get them. Obviously Jerry placed a premium on RB, WR, CB and LB instead of OL and DL and that is why the Cowboys are as weak in the trenches as they are now. I mean had you not traded for Roy Williams the Cowboys could have had Alex Mack, Michael Oher, Eric Wood or Eben Britton in the 2009 draft. In 2010 Dallas moved up for Dez Bryant, instead of going for flash yet again why didn't Jerry move up the 1 extra spot to get Bryan Bulaga, I mean clearly Jerry wasn't against moving up.

And you've spent 2 5th round picks on kickers? Whoop de doo. How is that working out for you? Jerry probably should've realized that the one thing Buehler can't do is make field goals. Ignoring drafting an actual kicker in favor of a kick off specialist who runs fast and can lift a bunch of weight is a fail on your part.

So back to my point, Jerry is a terrible GM.
I have no desire to defender Jerry and I am not an apologist for him and his shortcomings. That said, this post is uninformed, short-sighted and narrow minded in the extreme.

Every team has deficiencies. The same thing could be said for the Colts. They have no interior beef to stop the run(unlike the Cowboys, who are annually among the top run defending teams, despite you throwing that little barb in while you were at it), their OL is aging and sieve-like (much worse than a healthy Cowboys' line) and they have spent their last 5 1st round picks on, in order, RB, WR, RB and DE.

The point? Jerry's personnel decisions have been just fine. You don't look at one area of strength OR weakness when you evaluate a team FO on the basis of player acquisition. You look at the whole team and the whole group of players that that staff has assembled. While Jerry may have failed to acquire a top tier safety or young OLmen to replace the aging guys along the line (lets not ignore the fact that the Cowboys current starting LT is a 25 year old who was drafted in the 4th round 3 years ago and looks to be a very solid player moving forward, btw), every single other team in the league has a similar issue.

The Colts have similar shortcomings, with no DTs, a very weak OL and no difference maker at RB despite using TWO #1s on the position. Oh, and their LBs are mediocre at best.

The Pats have been unable to develop a single good RB, despite using a #1 pick there not long ago, and also have no CBs who are even average. Oh, and they lack any single player who can present a threat rushing the passer. Aside from that, they're awesome, though.

The Saints have been terrible in the secondary for years and have never been able to consistently stop anyone's passing game.

The Vikings couldn't get any decent WRs for years and years until Favre came in and made Sidney Rice into a star and they drafted Percy Harvin. Aside from that, their CBs and S have been a joke for ever and their LBs leave a lot to be desired as well.

I could go on all day. Jerry has done a great job acquiring talent. He has stocked RB, WR, TE, QB, CB, PR (pass rusher), NT with Pro Bowl talent from the draft. That part of his job he's done PLENTY well enough to not only compete, but to win it all.

You're missing the point. Its not about talent acquisition. Wade Phillips is a Jerry mistake. So I'm not arguing that Jerry isn't culpable. But it isn't personnel guy Jerry that is to blame. Its organizational Jerry that is.
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That leg has had it out for him since day 1.
"We're the quiet guys, the guys before the storm. And then we hit you."

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Old 09-20-2010, 01:58 AM    (permalink
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The Saints have the best, or at least, one of the best secondaries in the league right now. They aren't the best EVER like Dallas is to you, but they are pretty good.
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Old 09-20-2010, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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I think he deserves a promotion just so he can keep torturing all you cowgirls.
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Old 09-20-2010, 02:10 AM    (permalink
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I have no desire to defender Jerry and I am not an apologist for him and his shortcomings. That said, this post is uninformed, short-sighted and narrow minded in the extreme.

Every team has deficiencies. The same thing could be said for the Colts. They have no interior beef to stop the run(unlike the Cowboys, who are annually among the top run defending teams, despite you throwing that little barb in while you were at it), their OL is aging and sieve-like (much worse than a healthy Cowboys' line) and they have spent their last 5 1st round picks on, in order, RB, WR, RB and DE.

The point? Jerry's personnel decisions have been just fine. You don't look at one area of strength OR weakness when you evaluate a team FO on the basis of player acquisition. You look at the whole team and the whole group of players that that staff has assembled. While Jerry may have failed to acquire a top tier safety or young OLmen to replace the aging guys along the line (lets not ignore the fact that the Cowboys current starting LT is a 25 year old who was drafted in the 4th round 3 years ago and looks to be a very solid player moving forward, btw), every single other team in the league has a similar issue.

The Colts have similar shortcomings, with no DTs, a very weak OL and no difference maker at RB despite using TWO #1s on the position. Oh, and their LBs are mediocre at best.

The Pats have been unable to develop a single good RB, despite using a #1 pick there not long ago, and also have no CBs who are even average. Oh, and they lack any single player who can present a threat rushing the passer. Aside from that, they're awesome, though.

The Saints have been terrible in the secondary for years and have never been able to consistently stop anyone's passing game.

The Vikings couldn't get any decent WRs for years and years until Favre came in and made Sidney Rice into a star and they drafted Percy Harvin. Aside from that, their CBs and S have been a joke for ever and their LBs leave a lot to be desired as well.

I could go on all day. Jerry has done a great job acquiring talent. He has stocked RB, WR, TE, QB, CB, PR (pass rusher), NT with Pro Bowl talent from the draft. That part of his job he's done PLENTY well enough to not only compete, but to win it all.

You're missing the point. Its not about talent acquisition. Wade Phillips is a Jerry mistake. So I'm not arguing that Jerry isn't culpable. But it isn't personnel guy Jerry that is to blame. Its organizational Jerry that is.
I agree with this. The Cowboys are an extremely talented team. The problem is that it's not a very mentally strong or resilient team. They have no killer instinct, and they have no identity.

It's always a problem when players know that they answer to the owner and not the coach.
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Old 09-20-2010, 02:36 AM    (permalink
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/repost from cowboys thread.

I love how differently someone can see certain situations.

DMW I'm on the other side. I think Wade is competent enough to win a championship. Think about this for a 2nd. Wade has been the full time DC for the past 20 games. Only 4 games have our opponents scored more than 20 points in a game.

Wades a bad coach. To put those numbers into perspective when Brian Stewart was calling the defense in 2008...weeks 1-9 before Wade took over we allowed over 20 points in 6 games....this team is better because of wade phillips on the defensive side of the ball.

I'm sure the argument is going to be...Wade Phillips is a better coach than Brian Stewart...blah blah idc we are the Dallas Cowboys we deserve better. So let me go a bit deeper.

Try to place yourself in Wade's shoes for just one second. You want to be a head coach and you have a great opportunity to do so with a ton of talent in dallas. The catch is you get no say over the defense...you weigh you options but in the end you think Jason Garrett is extremely intelligent and has a bright future you take the gig.

Fast forward losing most of the staff that was in place before you...this isn't a big deal...but look at who was brought in on the offensive side of the ball that had ties to Wade....Wes Phillips offensive quality control...anyone else?

My point is no matter how good of a coach Wade Phillips is or isn't he is underminded by the pre-hiring of Jason Garrett. I hate to sound cliche...but the term "you're only as strong as your weakest link" really seems to fit here. Phillips defense is proven effective. It generates pressure and is a bit of a bend but don't break defense...don't give up big plays. This is a great defense and it's proven and backed up by stats.

Now here is my problem with what you are saying.
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This team has taken on the personality of its coach. They have the speed, strength, power and skill to win the Lombardi. But they have neither the head nor the heart. We make the dumbest mistakes at the worst times, and we don't come out with the intensity that you have to have to maintain a consistently high level of play.
Wade is known around the league as being extremely smart and knowing what he knows. I don't get how a dumbfounded play can be because of Wade Phillips. Obviously I understand mistakes come from not being coached up...but for example...Igors late hit on the QB...is that Wades fault...that is a heat of the moment play...cornerbacks not making plays on the ball is about the biggest thing you could knock Wade for and unfortunetly this team has proven over the past 5 years that we can't play zone. We get picked apart and for whatever reason we lack the awareness when we go that route. Wade brought in Jenkins and Scandrick both guys who've always excelled in man...so people want to make a big deal out of no turnovers that fine. But remember punts and missed field goals are also turnovers. Stops on 4th downs are turnovers.

Finally let me get to my point.

When anything on this team goes wrong it's Wades fault...but in reality is it? If Wade went to Jerry tomorrow and said I want jason off of play calling duties does anyone actually think that would fly. Maybe moreso now..but how about in the offseason...Jerry would laugh in his face and probably start rambling off numbers about how prolific Jasons offense is.

However this isn't new to anyone here especially you. You win championships in the NFL by playing as a team. This means the players and the strategy. Who in their right mind thinks that Wade Phillips wants a high flying offense? Tony Romo has threw the ******* ball 100 times in 2 games. Think about that...wtf is going on here. Dallas OL can't run block...fix it...draft someone...we have the talent to run it's a breakdown of coaching and play calling. While Wade has the ability to go there...he wasn't exactly put in the position to do that from the start. When we saw the clip in the war room 2 years ago and Garrett wanted to go Felix over Mendenhall I know we didn't see everything..but anyone else think that perhaps not only does Jerry Jones like shinny things..but also that Garrett gets excited over having new toys and sells jerry on it even more?

Bottomline is this team won't win a championship until the whole team strategy meshes. This means that you have to play a wade phillips offense to go along with his defense. I'm not talking about bringing bum phillips out of retirement to run the offense and run sweeps all day. But what I mean is you can't judge Wade and blame everything on him when it's clear as night and day that this team wasn't built as one. Some pieces were here before he got here and he doesn't get to make big changes. You trying to tell me that Wade Phillips had any say over Roy Williams coming here. But think bout it on the other side of the arguement...can you see Jason Garrett objecting? Remember we are talking about a ivy league grad that has been taught his whole life that he can do anything he sets his mind too. With a little of MY help he thinks...Roy can get back to his 1000 yard season.

Now don't get me wrong I loved the Roy move when we made it. Hindsight 20/20 knowing we'd get dez the following year...Michael Oher would be super sexy...but obviously thats not the case.

While I don't think Wade is perfect I don't think he's gotten a fair shake from the start...and what he is directly responsible for I'm proud of. I love when we shut teams out...I love when we play ball control offense. I wish I could post the stats on average ppg for the opponent when we win the time of possession.

Do you know what our opponents average ppg is when we win the TOP? 12 points. 12...think about that for a min....all we have to do is score 2 td's and TOP and we win.

Hell score 3td's and we don't even need TOP anymore. My point is the problem on this team is not wade phillips. This defense has done nothing be improve since he was appointed DC...the offense has done nothing but get worse since Garrett took the reigns. I'm sorry but I just don't think Wade is the problem here.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:27 AM    (permalink
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You make a good point thule, Wade Phillips hasn't gotten a fair shake in Dallas and he is a good DC, but that doesn't excuse his almost Lovie-esque inability to get his team to concentrate and stay focused through the toughest of times. I just don't think Wade's cut out to be a head coach, Greg Williams is a great DC and the architect of a defense in New Orleans finally let that high powered offense convert points into wins, but he's a terrible head coach, you can be really smart and really good with the X's and O's and still fail miserably as a head coach and IMO Wade Phillips has done a mediocre job as a HC throughout his career, again still a great DC and defensive play caller, but as a HC I don't think he does a good enough job of winning his locker-room and while yes, Jerry has undermined him there, a good coach would be able to beat out Jason ******* Garrett for the loyalty of his players, that is assuming his players aren't ********.
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Old 09-20-2010, 04:49 AM    (permalink
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id say fire Jason Garrett, if that doesnt work, phillips gotta go
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:11 AM    (permalink
Brent
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if Jerry could handle letting a coach take the spotlight, he might be able to get a decent coach who would bring a good OC with him.

Wade sure isnt the one who hired Garrett, and sure as ******* cant fire him.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:28 AM    (permalink
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I live in Dallas and I don't know what the answer & solutions are.
I know that today will be a fun day to listen to the Ticket, and the Fan, and ESPN Dallas all day long, as last Monday was.

I personally think a few things here:

#1- Aw shucks. Ya know.
That's the laid back, lazyish persona of Phillips. Every press conference, every interview, listen to how he sounds. You know....

#2- Jason Garrett
I think he's terrible. I hear fans complain all the time down here that they don't come close to utilizing their running backs. The thing is, even on here it seems everyone has different opinions/rankings of the 3 Dallas RBs.

#3- Talent
Maybe they're not as talented as everyone makes them out to be. They drafted Marty B before Jermichael Finley.
Does that OL do a good job run blocking? Pass protecting?

What happened at kicker? In the 2007 almost-magical year, rookie Nick Folk edged rookie Mason Crosby for the Pro Bowl, and made some huge clutch kicks. Crosby struggled last year. But he's got his confidence back and hit a 56-yarder last week in Philly.
Who the hell is this kicker this year for Dallas?

They have a lethal combo of Romo to Austin on offense, and they have the lethal bookend pass-rushing OLBers in Demarcus and Spencer, with NT Ratliff up the middle. Other than that, there are no playmakers on defense. Mike Jenkins is pretty good, but it's amazing how few turnovers this defense gets with those pass rushing beasts.
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Old 09-20-2010, 06:31 AM    (permalink
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I know that today will be a fun day to listen to the ESPN Dallas
I love Randy Galloway's show
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:00 AM    (permalink
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If hey don't make the playoffs I would expect him to be fired. Way to much preseason expectation for them to not make the playoffs.
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:25 AM    (permalink
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They aren't as talented as they are made out to be, because they are weak in the trenches on both sides.
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:30 AM    (permalink
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Phillips will be fired by season's end. Phillips has underachieved everywhere he's been a HC. His teams are undisciplined and play dumb (like him). I was pleased when the Cowboys hired him because I knew they would never win a SB under his guidance.
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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If they lose to their undefeated in state rivals and fall to 0-3 in the season that was supposed to be theirs, I think he's fired.
Only issue is who replaces him....I can't see Garrett being considered anymore and Im not sure if anyone from outside of the organization will be talked about.

Either way, point is moot if Dallas wins next week. Big time game.
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Old 09-20-2010, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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#3- Talent
Maybe they're not as talented as everyone makes them out to be. They drafted Marty B before Jermichael Finley.
Lol really? What does this have to do with anything? We've rehashed this in the Cowboys forum already, and I was the biggest Finley fan on this forum when he was coming out but EVERY team passed on Jermichael Finley, hell if GB knew he would end up this good they wouldn't have waited that long, and if anyone else knew he would have been drafted where Jermaine Gresham was.


Besides that he was a pure receiving TE, he didn't even start to become a solid blocker until this season, and frankly with Witten that didn't make much sense to look at a prospect that way. Marty B is an excellent blocker and has been able to step in from day 1 in dual TE sets as a blocker while still being a great receiver.


Talent is on the roster, that's not a problem, and even if you argued that it was bringing up Marty B over Finley is pretty stupid, it's just a way to try and bring up the Packers and how good Finley is. There were alot of stupid TE picks before him.


As far as Dallas, Wade is an excellent Defensive Coordinator, he's just not a Head Coach. While he may not get a fair shake, things like penalties every single week are a result of him. The whole coaching tree needs stripped down, new OC, DC, and HC. Doubt it'll happen, but everyone is to blame to an extent.


I'm not gonna blame Jerry like most everyone else. It's not like he wasn't the same old Jerry back in the mid 90's. He has enough talent on the roster, that's his primary job. He makes tough decisions that goes against what everyone thinks of him like cutting TO and it works out. Now he does stupid **** like trade for Roy, and makes a ton of mistakes with hiring coaches, but I remember when everyone called him an idiot for not hiring Mike Singletary and now they want him fired already.


Point being, Wade should go. Love what he does with the D, but if he's just gonna continue to let the team come out unprepared, and countless penalties, it's time.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
"Like I said, I don't know if you heard me, but I think that things [in practice] kind of got let go [by the players] in practice," Newman said. "It's things that ... it's not our coaches. They don't really know some of the things that were going on. But as players, we have to crack down and make sure that some of the stuff that has been going on doesn't go on.
"We have to make it a game situation in practice. That's just what it is. We go hard in practice, but maybe our intensity needs to go up a little bit. We've got to do that as players and not worry about the coaches."
Quote:

There were two incidents last week that raised eyebrows in the Cowboys' locker room. At midweek, linebackers coach Reggie Herring yelled at some of the younger players to attend a meeting on time. Several other players howled as if to mock Herring.
On Friday, after some fun between Marcus Spears and Jon Kitna about a game of spades drew reporters to listen in on the banter, tight end Martellus Bennett started shouting as if he wanted attention.
http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/nfl...vin&id=5593266


Take it for what it's worth.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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Bottom 5 coach in the NFL. Playoff blunder. Doesn't get his team ready for big games. Doesn't get his team ready to be winners. They don't know how to handle it - they get big heads and overrate themselves. From quotes, he cares more about himself than the team or the organization. He wants to win for Wade and he wants people to recognize him as a good coach and talk about what a good job he's doing. That wouldn't be a bad thing really if he was a tenacious winner, kind of like Bellicheck (except Bellicheck doesn't care what people say about him at all), but he's more of an apologist for losing.
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