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Old 10-19-2010, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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This is a terrible argument.
I'm not arguing anything I asked a question but good job reading.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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holy **** what is this? i thought i was in the ****** mvp thread
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Old 10-19-2010, 04:50 PM    (permalink
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Its gonna be quite the face palm when Carolina passes on a franchise qb in this draft bc they drafted Clausen in round 2.

That will be a lawlfest when it happens.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brodeur View Post
I think the problem here is that McCoy actually showed something against the best defense in the NFL, and Clausen has looked like ****.
You do realize that Jeff Otah has been missing for the entire season? The Browns have a very solid O-Line that can protect its QBs.

Hillis has been great this year too and has done more than Deangelo Williams. And the weapons McCoy and Clausen have are a advantage to Colt. McCoy at least has Cribbs to pass to.....

Clausen? Rosario, Gettis, Clowney and LaFell. Ooooooh big time.

Fox is smart with this move, he knows that any QB would fail with what is set up right now on the offense. He is throwing Matt Moore into the fire and will in all likelihood barring injury bring Clausen and Steve Smith back together.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Its gonna be quite the face palm when Carolina passes on a franchise qb in this draft bc they drafted Clausen in round 2.

That will be a lawlfest when it happens.
I argued this earlier in the thread. Throw Clausen to the wolves...see what he is made of. If he continues to fail, draft a new QB. Benching him only serves to keep him as a question mark...the next staff comes in, says "Jimmy Clausen is my QB" and then he fails...setting them back by at least another year when that year could have been spent developing a real franchise QB.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Sam Bradford plays with WRs off the practice squad and still plays well. Remember Sam Bradford played in the spread offense and had a noodle arm was suppose to be a BUST.

Jimmy Clausen was pro-ready and played in a pro-style offense, oh yeah had laser arm so lets no make excuses for him.

Colt has looked 10x better than Jimmy and he had his top WRs carted off.
Again the Rams have a line based off of high drafted players. Clausen has a line that outside of Gross(Who hasn't even been that great by all accounts) that isn't so great.

You can have big name RBs and Steve Smith(Who has missed more games than Mass/Cribbs) but it won't amount to anything if the line is garbage.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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You do realize that Jeff Otah has been missing for the entire season? The Browns have a very solid O-Line that can protect its QBs.

Hillis has been great this year too and has done more than Deangelo Williams. And the weapons McCoy and Clausen have are a advantage to Colt. McCoy at least has Cribbs to pass to.....

Clausen? Rosario, Gettis, Clowney and LaFell. Ooooooh big time.

Fox is smart with this move, he knows that any QB would fail with what is set up right now on the offense. He is throwing Matt Moore into the fire and will in all likelihood barring injury bring Clausen and Steve Smith back together.
Cribbs left the game early and so did the guy with the long name who eas their #1 or 2 WR any more excuses?
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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So the Browns have a better supporting cast, and situation, then the Panthers. Lol. What a turn of evens we've seen in only one month.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:30 PM    (permalink
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No help? Golden Tate, Michael Floyd, and Kyle Rudolph?

Notre Dame hasn't beaten a ranked team since 2006, so that encompasses Jimmy Clausen's entire career... not sure if that earns him the 'winner' label.

ND's defense wasn't as bad as people want to believe. Notre Dame only scored 7 points through 3 quarters against Navy at home and lost 23-21. They beat Boston College 20-16.

Looking at Jimmy Clausen, it makes Locker look better to me. He's got a substantially worse supporting cast and has beaten at least 3 ranked teams in his career that I can think of off the top of my head (USC twice and Oregon State).
Matt Leinart played in a National Title game....
Jason White won a heisman trophy.
Jay Cutler's highest winning season at Vandy despite having players like an Earl Bennett was 5?

Its not Clausen's fault Weis was an inept head coach and sported a garbage defense throughout his tenure there. Clausen didn't have an agile USC squad or a SEC defense to go behind.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:31 PM    (permalink
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So the Browns have a better supporting cast, and situation, then the Panthers. Lol. What a turn of evens we've seen in only one month.
Better O-Line absolutely and that is what matters. Also losing Steve Smith for a few games does an effect likewise with no Otah fro the entire year(So far)

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Old 10-19-2010, 05:35 PM    (permalink
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completely irrelevant. but nice try.
So you're saying that the Rams line isn't built well because of the drafting of Saffold or Smith?

Cmon I am a Jets fan and our 2 best lineman were drafted together in round 1 in D'Brick and Mangold....a top 5 pick on a LT and a 1st round pick on a C. Jets had 5 1st rounders on the line last season and to no surprise it held its own in many games.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Cribbs left the game early and so did the guy with the long name who eas their #1 or 2 WR any more excuses?
I am not going to say McCoy didn't have a good game but the Browns were playing catchup throughout the entire game with a injured RB in Hillis which meant McCoy had the luxury of throwing the ball for more downs.

Panthers try and institute the run attack first and foremost. Always have, always will.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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i'm saying that the draft position of a player is completely irrelevant, when you're talking about how good that player is.

unless, of course, you'd like to argue that the late 90's, early 00's broncos had one of the worst o-lines in the history of football.
No I mean that the Rams put alot of their high selections and investment into their O-Line and thus far have been rewarded for doing so(Granted they really haven't battled a top defense like Cleveland's has but still good).

Bills haven't drafted a tackle in round 1 since Mike Williams....and we know what the deal is with their line. Its been ass for about a decade. They could get lucky like with Peters yes but the chances of that are very tough. Not to say all 1st round lineman are guaranteed studs, they're not(Look at Williams as a prime example) but like with any position drafted, you stand a better shot at getting premier talent at a spot with the higher pick.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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The panthers offense playbook is the same as the one at ND, even Jimmy Clausen said it(only a little bigger). The panther OC was taught by charlie Weis so lets not use this excuse.
The terminology is about the same around 85%.

The panthers run a offense based on a lot of play action something Clausen is not the best at.So its no excuse thats fact.
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Old 10-19-2010, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Exactly, it's just an easy cop out. After the draft everyone(especially Panthers fans) were so excited because the offense was a great fit, and so were the surrounding weapons. Funny how all that changes when he struggles.
Never changed for me.

Clausen strength is his accuracy.If I am not mistake Weis had a lot of West coast offense in his playbook?.Something the panthers dont do.

They do a more playaction and The Oline has really regressed.
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:46 AM    (permalink
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Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:27 AM    (permalink
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I find it hard to evaluate rookie QBs to be honest. What they do as a rookie really means nothing, because the "best" rookie years you get for a QB is like Matt Ryan, where he's not totally incompetent.

They have to take huge leaps no matter where they are to be a better than average starter at the position. It's nice to see GROWTH early on, but meh, I like to see what kind of leap they make late into the season, and into their second year, because the first year, the most you can hope for is something like Bradford is doing, just taking what the D gives, and keeping his team on teh field enough for his playmakers to make plays.

Rarely do you get a very young QB come out and dominate, and a QBs first season(as a rookie really) doesn't give a strong indication of the future. If they've been sitting a few years, and then come in, you really like to see some true playmaking though.

I don't see a big correlation to a guys first year if he starts as a rookie, to how he'll fair down the road, it seems like a hard thing to project.

That said, I expected more of Clausen thus far.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:13 AM    (permalink
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Personally, I don't think you can evaluate Clausen based on this season even if he had started the rest of the year. Our owner went cheap preparing for a possible lockout. He purged a good number of veterans from the payroll and didn't really try to sign anyone to replace them. Their biggest off-season signings were Ed Johnson and Marcus Hudson.

He let a starting RG walk (Keydrick Vincent) who was borderline anyway but an upgrade over Mackenzy Bernadeau who replaced him. Jeff Otah being out has further worsened the right side of the line. He's being replaced by Geoff Schwartz, who isn't horrible but just doesn't hold up against speed rushers (maybe if he moved inside to RG when Otah comes back he'll be more effective). Jordan Gross has been shaky but is starting to shake the rust off while Travelle Wharton and Ryan Kalil are playing decently.

At receiver it's pretty much the same thing except an even younger group trying to get the job done. Steve Smith and Dwayne Jarrett were the most experienced receivers on the roster entering the season. Jarrett has since been released (his career stats- 3 starts, 2 DUIs, 1 TD), and Smith got hurt in the 4th game of the year. That left 3 rookie WR's on the roster. Brandon LaFell hasn't shown anything, he's got 5 catches and at least 3 drops. David Gettis has shown more consistency catching the ball but he's only averaging 2.7 yards after the catch. Armanti Edwards is a project player. They brought in David Clowney and Devin Thomas. We'll see if they add anything to the team.

Our TE's are kind of a forgotten piece, at least by our OC. They continue to start Jeff King but he's not much of a receiving threat (with the right side of the line being so bad the extra blocking is needed), Dante Rosario is something of a receiving threat (he's at least a threat to get some yards after catch) but he's hardly ever in the game, and Gary Barnidge they misuse (he's the worst blocker by far of the three yet they continue to put him in to block- again the extra blocking is needed but putting in someone whose not a good blocker to do it doesn't make much sense).

DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart are routinely facing 8 and 9 men in the box, and our line just can't get a push. Williams is averaging 4.7 ypc this year, but is only getting about 13 carries a game because of play-calling that has left most Panther fans scratching their heads (such as passing the ball 3 times in a row on the goal line).

As for the offensive coordinator, he seems to lack the imagination and creativity to move people around to create different looks and possible mismatches. And I don't say that based just on this year, I'm referring to his entire time in Carolina.

In other words, Clausen may or may not be the quarterback of the future for this team, but given the situation around him I don't think you can give a fair overall evaluation of him this year. I don't say that to take up for him, and there have been things I've seen from him I don't like (locking onto receivers, not giving a play time to develop when he does have time before checking it down, etc.), but the offense as a whole is a mess.

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Old 10-20-2010, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?
I don't see how they can't.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BlindSite View Post
Wow, the guys a bust after three games... Jesus you people make some laughable arguments sometimes.
Actually unless I missed the post your the first person to even toss around the word bust. But if you want to pass up one of the big 3 potential franchise QB's for the hope that Clausen eventually gets it together then by all means. I'm sure the rest of the NFC South would love that.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Would Carolina take a QB in the next draft if they were drafting in the top 3 ?
if they have a new coach/GM then that regime won't be married to Clausen, and chances are they would be in the group that didn't like Clausen that much coming out of college (considering how far he fell in the draft) - so I would say it's very possible.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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From all accounts of the Charlotte media that I've read, the GM (Marty Hurney) appears to be safe. So a new coach-yes, a new GM-not likely.

That would possibly leave the franchise torn on the "do we draft a QB" issue.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:53 PM    (permalink
Mr.Regular
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I really hope Carolina sticks with Clausen. I was a HUGE fan of his last year.
Problem is if they have a top 5 pick or so, and a totally new regime, chances are they'd look at a QB.

We know Clausen wasn't liked by many considering his monstrous free fall on draft day, and new regimes usually=new QB's.

It'll be interesting to see. Who else would they target? Dareus? Green? Im not sure....QB might end up making sense.
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Old 10-20-2010, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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I really hope Carolina sticks with Clausen. I was a HUGE fan of his last year.
Problem is if they have a top 5 pick or so, and a totally new regime, chances are they'd look at a QB.

We know Clausen wasn't liked by many considering his monstrous free fall on draft day, and new regimes usually=new QB's.

It'll be interesting to see. Who else would they target? Dareus? Green? Im not sure....QB might end up making sense.


They can still draft Andrew Luck or Jake Locker and roll with Clausen, as we all know QB's can be very valuable commodities if they show some talent. If Clausen is as good as everyone says/though/thinks then he will still more then likely get to start next year ahead of the rookie QB and give them a chance to bring the new guy along slowly.


Still though it makes no sense to me to not keep him out there and get an idea of what you have because if he did start to reel together some wins and show a spark of a franchise signal caller that top 3 pick could very well be spent on talent to improve the team around him instead.


But I guess since Carolina is the worst place to play ever and they would make any QB look terrible, and STL and Cleveland are 10x better then it doesn't matter.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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