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Old 09-22-2010, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Kolb has had four ******* years to develop. You praised him incessantly and swarmed the board with endless pro-Kolb arguments, and now, Kolb let you down. You can't go four ******* years of learning the system and then average 2.4 ypa. Let it go, Thumper. Kolb sucks. He's not a ******* franchise QB, he's not a starting QB, and he's not even a good ******* backup.
What the **** are you talking about? Seriously.

I just think that this is a bad decision because Andy Reid likely just stunted Kevin Kolb's growth another year which will come back and bite the Eagles when Vick leaves (which he will) and the Eagles are back to square one except this time Vick won't be on the bench to save the Eagles if stuff goes bad. I just imagine this as Andy giving up on Kolb and the Eagles needing to develop a new franchise passer, which is not an easy thing to find or do.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Werowance View Post
What the **** are you talking about? Seriously.

I just think that this is a bad decision because Andy Reid likely just stunted Kevin Kolb's growth another year which will come back and bite the Eagles when Vick leaves (which he will) and the Eagles are back to square one except this time Vick won't be on the bench to save the Eagles if stuff goes bad. I just imagine this as Andy giving up on Kolb and the Eagles needing to develop a new franchise passer, which is not an easy thing to find or do.
You're starting a franchise quarterback right now. And he doesn't need developing.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
You're starting a franchise quarterback right now. And he doesn't need developing.
He is also very likely to leave after this season, which is my main problem with this. I don't care who is starting really, I just don't want the Eagles to SOL when Vick leaves in free agency.
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Old 09-22-2010, 10:55 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Werowance View Post
He is also very likely to leave after this season, which is my main problem with this. I don't care who is starting really, I just don't want the Eagles to SOL when Vick leaves in free agency.
Why wouldn't they just resign him and cut their losses with Kolb? Vick is only 30, with two years of "rest" for his body.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by XxXdragonXxX View Post
The Eagles barely beat the Lions...Vick was sacked 5 times, he wasn't really allowed to break off any long runs, and his only real success was chucking it deep right before getting sacked to Desean Jackson, who the Lions obviously weren't equipped to cover.


How exactly does this make the Eagles a contender again? I have them going 8-8 at best, they have a tough schedule, Jacksonville, Tennessee and SF are their easiest games, and I wouldn't be shocked if they had trouble with all 3.
Were you watching the game at all? Vick was by far our best player and you could even make the argument he won that game for us. How is him being sacked 5 times even remotely his fault. Does he hold on to the ball too long sometimes? Yes, but he also has the ability to avoid ass rushers and if it weren't for that the Lions may have had 8 or 9 sacks last week. Vick doesn't make the Eagles a top team, but he does give us a shot at making the playoffs as long as our defense can play somewhat decent.

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Originally Posted by steelersfan43 View Post
kevin kolb is a terrible football player. ewww. Football fans need to get their heads out of their asses and realize that kolb is never going to be a franchise Qb
fixed

Kolb has had plenty of time to develop under McNabb including a few starts in the last few years and he has yet to show any signs of being a starting NFL QB, let alone the franchise gunslinger everyone expects him to be. He just isn't good.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Todd Bertuzzi
Yes, but he also has the ability to avoid ass rushers
That's a skill he probably developed in prison.
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Old 09-22-2010, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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Report: Browns called Eagles last night about Kolb

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Those in the Philly front office who believed in quarterback Kevin Kolb included the team's General Manager.

Tom Heckert is now the G.M. of the Browns. And Anthony Gargano of WIP in Philly reports that Heckert's Browns already have called about a possible trade for Kolb.

Specifically, the call was placed last night, and the Browns were told that Kolb isn't available.

But maybe he could be. Coach Andy Reid said Wednesday that that he can't predict whether Kolb will be on the roster past the trade deadline. And that means that maybe Kolb will be traded between now and October 19.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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My line of the day on this situation:

If Kevin Kolb were a pit bull, Michael Vick would have electrocuted him by now...
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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And the plot thickens.

I don't see why people think just because the Eagles traded McNabb that they have to be married to Kolb.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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And the plot thickens.
dun, dun, tuhhhnnnnn.


Kafka is going to beat Kolb for the second string position in a week or 2.

He'll probably be traded if Vick does well for the next 2-3 games. I think Andy knows the Kolb project is a fail.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:11 PM    (permalink
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While Kolb looked like trash against the Packers I think he deserves atleast 2 more full games. He didn't really have much of a chance to show anything. I think Vick is definitely a better option for the Eagles right now though.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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If the Eagles don't go at least 9-7 this year, Andy Reid could easily get fired. They're not firing the new GM. They will pin the McNabb trade on him, will call the Kolb fail his fault, then replacing him with Vick will be considered on him as well. Essentially, they'd better win games, or Reid will be coaching in Cleveland next season under Holmgren...
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Ummmmm....

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ht-about-kolb/

Quote:
Coach Andy Reid said Wednesday that that he can't predict whether Kolb will be on the roster past the trade deadline.
Yea.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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If the Eagles don't go at least 9-7 this year, Andy Reid could easily get fired. They're not firing the new GM. They will pin the McNabb trade on him, will call the Kolb fail his fault, then replacing him with Vick will be considered on him as well. Essentially, they'd better win games, or Reid will be coaching in Cleveland next season under Holmgren...
I don't understand this line of thinking.

Reading between the lines, too, it seems like Reid/the organization has had as much faith in Vick as they did with Kolb. They've continually praised his work ethic and progress the past two years. And they were rotating him and giving him situational time when McNabb was there and in the Green Bay game before Kolb even went down. If there's one thing Andy Reid knows, it's quarterbacks. The guy was Favre's quarterback coach, developed an incredibly raw McNabb, and won games with AJ Feeley, Koy Detmer, and Jeff Garcia when Donovan has missed time. And he's been adamant about getting Vick on the field since the day he arrived in Philly.

IMO, the McNabb trade was as much about selling McNabb at his highest possible value than it was about being fully on board the Kevin Kolb train. They went 11-5 last year, but got absolutely destroyed by the Cowboys at the end of the season and again in the playoffs. Is it realistic to think they'd be much better than 9-7 with McNabb as opposed to Vick? McNabb was a model of consistency, but it can be argued that they had plateaued in the 2004 and McNabb was unlikely to ever duplicate that success ever again. He was slated to walk after this season anyways, so they traded him for high value while they could. That's been the Eagles' MO for quite awhile now.

I think Reid also knows that Vick fits his system much better than Kolb. There's not a single west coast offense receiver on that roster. With Vick, he's getting to run an offense tailored to the team's strengths, as opposed to running a rhythm offense with Kolb and getting Maclin and Jackson killed over the middle.

Game management issues aside, Reid is a damn good at identifying and developing talent (especially QBs). It's his greatest asset as a coach. I'd trust him on this one.

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Old 09-22-2010, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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If the Eagles don't go at least 9-7 this year, Andy Reid could easily get fired. They're not firing the new GM. They will pin the McNabb trade on him, will call the Kolb fail his fault, then replacing him with Vick will be considered on him as well. Essentially, they'd better win games, or Reid will be coaching in Cleveland next season under Holmgren...
That would be a dynamic walrus mustache duo.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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You don't develop on the bench. Playing in a game is so much different than playing the backup cheerleaders in practice.

In a year or two when Vick's speed and burst die, he will have to try to be a pocket passer - which he sucks at.
This makes no sense.

Vick is an elite level athlete. Most top line WRs don't lose their speed till 33-34, and they take more hits than Vick does. Not to mention Vick had two years to rest his body.

If they can sign him, Vick can lead the team for half a decade.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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I think the Eagles owe Clay Matthews a huge thank you for saving their season and franchise for the next 3 years. If not for Matthews concussing Kolb, he may still have that job.
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Old 09-22-2010, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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This makes no sense.

Vick is an elite level athlete. Most top line WRs don't lose their speed till 33-34, and they take more hits than Vick does. Not to mention Vick had two years to rest his body.

If they can sign him, Vick can lead the team for half a decade.
For some reason, I keep thinking Vick is like 32 or something. Still, I wouldn't count on him being that elite athlete for more than 3 years. The eagles obviously feel differently.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand this line of thinking.

Reading between the lines, too, it seems like Reid/the organization has had as much faith in Vick as they did with Kolb. They've continually praised his work ethic and progress the past two years. And they were rotating him and giving him situational time when McNabb was there and in the Green Bay game before Kolb even went down. If there's one thing Andy Reid knows, it's quarterbacks. The guy was Favre's quarterback coach, developed an incredibly raw McNabb, and won games with AJ Feeley, Koy Detmer, and Jeff Garcia when Donovan has missed time. And he's been adamant about getting Vick on the field since the day he arrived in Philly.

IMO, the McNabb trade was as much about selling McNabb at his highest possible value than it was about being fully on board the Kevin Kolb train. They went 11-5 last year, but got absolutely destroyed by the Cowboys at the end of the season and again in the playoffs. Is it realistic to think they'd be much better than 9-7 with McNabb as opposed to Vick? McNabb was a model of consistency, but it can be argued that they had plateaued in the 2004 and McNabb was unlikely to ever duplicate that success ever again. He was slated to walk after this season anyways, so they traded him for high value while they could. That's been the Eagles' MO for quite awhile now.

I think Reid also knows that Vick fits his system much better than Kolb. There's not a single west coast offense receiver on that roster. With Vick, he's getting to run an offense tailored to the team's strengths, as opposed to running a rhythm offense with Kolb and getting Maclin and Jackson killed over the middle.

Game management issues aside, Reid is a damn good at identifying and developing talent (especially QBs). It's his greatest asset as a coach. I'd trust him on this one.
YFS, letís look at this logically. I agree that Reid and the organization had faith in Vick and Kolb. Why else would they have agreed to pay Vick $5.2mm as a ďbackupĒ. Fact is that Reid blew a ton of his credibility with the fan base and the national media by selling Kolb as the starter when Vick was going to be a co-starter. Look at the snaps in the first half of the GB game. It was like a QBBC. I felt like neither Vick nor Kolb had a chance to establish any kind of presence. By announcing Kolb as your starter for Week 3, then taking it back without letting him play, you kill your credibility with the fan base and (less importantly) the media. You also destroy the notion that Kolb is your QB for the fans and the locker room. If Vick gets hurt or struggles, you canít go back and have the locker room behind Kolb. Itís over for him as an Eagle, plus you killed his trade value. Who is giving up more than a 4th or 5th for Kolb right now? Probably no one.

Now, by going with Vick, you are saying that you are not really rebuilding and are going for a playoff berth. As a fan, Iím fine with the aggressiveness. I also donít care at all about the whole moral/dogfighting angle. Non-issue for me. Just sayingÖ Anyway, I with your assessment: The Eagles were probably a 9-7/10-6 at best team with McNabb vs. Vick/Kolb. Still, how many NFL teams in the salary cap era allow a coach to rebuild twice in his tenure and keep his job? Pretty much only Pittsburgh. Other teams rebuild with new coaches. Reid has had an 11 year run in Philly and has had success, but he hasnít won the big one. If he doesnít show that this team is on the right track by winning games this year, why would they necessarily trust him to allow him to rebuild the team as these players mature? Often times, teams will replace the coach while rebuilding to get a new voice in there.

Along those lines, note that the team has been transformed from a WCO to more of an Air Coryell design with a vertical passing game. If Reid and Marty are WCO guys, why are the Eagles building a different style offense with players who donít fit the traditional WCO? Wouldnít that also be a sign that this team is moving towards a new coaching direction?

I have a lot of faith in Reid because I watched a lot of bad football prior to his arrival. His track record has been to make his teams competitive while building for the future. There is a new GM who is young and eager to put his stamp on the franchise. He was partly responsible for getting rid of McNabb in the offseason. Why wouldnít he consolidate his power and seize decision making control from Reid to bring in his own guy? There are a lot of politics at play here. Reid is playing a game of self survival, but once you start running and catering to save yourself, you end up losing in the end because you lose the faith of others around you. Reid lost a little credibility by trading McNabb. He lost more with the quick trigger on benching Kolb. If heís wrong about Vick, how can he be trusted to lead this team anymore?
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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Vick is absolutely perfect for that offense.

He fits Reid's offense like a glove. That's why Reid was salivating. I have no idea how you can stop this offense if Vick is firing on all cylinders.

Just imagine how sick this offense is gonna be once they bolster the oline this offseason.

People need to let Kolb go. He sucks. He sucked for awhile now. He was the product of a hype machine generated this offseason by the team and beatwriters.

Just ask most people who liked Kolb WHY they liked him. Most of em didn't even see the guy play.

The overconfidence in him being a franchise guy was ridiculous to me. People were projecting him to be a good player bc he did decent against a prevent defense in NO, a terrible defense in KC, and bc zomg Aaron Rodgers sat a while and he's good so Kolb should be the same, and because they read articles about how his teammates respect him and love him.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I've said this many many many times.

Andy Reid is the reason why the Eagles are consistently great.

He is also the reason why they will never win a SB as long as he's still their HC.

So you gotta decide, are you ok with being the 90s Knicks of the NFL, always close but no cigar? Or do you want to blow it up and take your chances? That either can lead to a SB, or it can lead to the Rich Kotite era all over again.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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BBD, do you agree that if Vick falters, and the Eagles fail to compete for a playoff spot, that Reid could find himself on the hot seat?
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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BBD, do you agree that if Vick falters, and the Eagles fail to compete for a playoff spot, that Reid could find himself on the hot seat?
Absolutely. Do I think it's right? No, bc I respect the hell out of Andy Reid as a coach. Honestly, I think Reid would make a better GM than a coach, but that's a different story.

But yeah, he's putting all his chips on Vick. Honestly, he was on the hot seat with Kolb. Bc if Kolb sucked something awful this year, Reid would have been on the hot seat anyway. So he figures, why start Kolb knowing he's gonna fail and risk my job when I can start Vick and potentially save it?

I don't think Reid ever wanted to get rid of McNabb. He wanted to keep McNabb and was pressured by the organization to move forward with Kolb. The offseason rumblings indicated this much.

Also, it was obvious that Reid never had much faith in Kolb bc he brought in Vick. Even in Kolb's first start, Vick took just as many snaps, and it was obvious the playbook was dumbed down to the extreme for Kolb. Signing Vick back for 5 mill wasn't a coincidence either. Reid planned ahead of time knowing that Kolb could very well bust and had his insurance policy in Vick ready and willing.
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Old 09-22-2010, 01:56 PM    (permalink
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I don't get the people who keep saying "Kolb deserves this or that". What has Kolb done in college, workouts, practice, or as a pro to say that he deserves MORE development time?
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Old 09-22-2010, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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I love how they conveniently left out this quote that occurred directly after that one:
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On whether he will listen to trade offers for Kolb: "No, I want Kevin Kolb on this football team."
I don't get why he would contradict himself like that, but I highly doubt Kolb gets dealt, especially since that would leave Mike Kafka as the #2 QB.
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