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Old 10-04-2010, 12:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Eh. To me you're old in the NFL when you hit the big 3-0.

You're ancient when you hit 33.

We have young guys on the bench, sure. Every team does. How those young guys progress and replace the old guys is something to be seen. It's one thing to have young guys, its another thing to have talented young guys.

I can't say one way or another how our young guys develop moving forward. It's just something us fans can't accurately predict. I will say I do like Petrus though, and Koets is playing pretty decent out there.

Andrews has talent if he gets his head on straight and can stay healthy. So we'll see what our future has in store for us.


Age hasn't been the issue though. I guess defining "old" is up to the person, however, with us injuries and changing the running concepts have been the biggest issue. I am sure we will continue to address the OL in the offseason whether it is in the draft or signing FAs.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
I would say that St. Louis's line is much improved this year. Bradford appears to have decent time, and they are run blocking pretty well.
And their DL as well, Jake Long doesn't regret being drafted by the Sheep anymore.

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Let's also look at lower tier lines:

Eagles
Bears
Cowboys
Bills
Jacksonville
Green Bay (no run push, tons of penalties)
GB gave up the most sacks last yr, if they repeat in that category I can't hear them talking up SB Run anymore.

Noteworthy by their omission: **cough, cough**SF 49ers **Cough, cough** El Stinko when Chilo Rachal is in there or the 2 rookies have to sustain a run block, not so much when they Snyder sends Chilo back to his all too familiar spot on the bench.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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Age hasn't been the issue though. I guess defining "old" is up to the person, however, with us injuries and changing the running concepts have been the biggest issue. I am sure we will continue to address the OL in the offseason whether it is in the draft or signing FAs.
Older players are more likely to get hurt though. It's no coincidence that McKenzie, OHara, and Seuburt all have been hurt the past 2 years.

Running concepts get tweaked every year don't they? Same with the route trees?
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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No sir. When someone brought up Alex Barron, you had a rebuttal. But Joe McKnight is CLEARLY the biggest waste on an NFL roster.
Aww, you beat me to saying Joe McKnight is the biggest waste. The Lions O-Line is pretty crappy, but I guess it's better than some of the horrendous ones in the league.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:25 PM    (permalink
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Cincinnati's is pretty good.

The Browns sacked Palmer a couple times, but they were coverage sacks and they can run the ball.

And the Rams OLine has been sneaky good.
Called this...it shouldn't surprise anyone...they stole Bell from the Titans...Brown from the Ravens...Jason Smith is big and athletic...and Saffold was probably the fastest rising OL prospect as the draft process came to an end last year.

4 really talented young guys + more athleticism at the QB position and it's not shocking so much as it is pleasant to see.

I like the Bengals OL.

I think the Giants OL should turn it around by the end of the year. I really think they're not going to start Andrews until they're positive he'll be a positive, and if he's inserted he's going to make a huge difference. No one will be able to add an OL talent like him late in the season.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I can only speak to the Chiefs line.. we've only given up 2 sacks so far this year and have one of the top rushing attacks in the NFL, so I can't hate on them too much.. but Cassel is still hit way too often, so they need to clean it up a bit.
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Old 10-04-2010, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Older players are more likely to get hurt though. It's no coincidence that McKenzie, OHara, and Seuburt all have been hurt the past 2 years.

Running concepts get tweaked every year don't they? Same with the route trees?
Depends on the team. I am sure stuff gets added and taken out. The trees stay the same, it's the route combos, and other concepts that get tweaked.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:20 PM    (permalink
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I can only speak to the Chiefs line.. we've only given up 2 sacks so far this year and have one of the top rushing attacks in the NFL, so I can't hate on them too much.. but Cassel is still hit way too often, so they need to clean it up a bit.
And one of those sacks was just a coverage sack. The other one was pretty much the only ****-up the OL has had all year.

The Pats OL has looked surprisingly good this year. I can't imagine what that offense would be doing with Mankins in there... I thought OL was a weak spot before he held out, but they've handled themselves well (extra receiving options really went a long way here, too).

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Old 10-04-2010, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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I don't even know about the 49ers offensive line. At Seattle and Kansas City they looked terrible but against the Saints and Falcons they played great.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bsaza2358 View Post
Let's also look at lower tier lines:

Eagles
Bears
Cowboys
Bills
Jacksonville
Green Bay (no run push, tons of penalties)
Seattle's line is terrible, they literally have been a revolving door for bringing guys in and out on a weekly basis. Going forward they might be able to put something together with Russell Okung and Max Unger but neither will add much this year, (Unger being on IR)
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Jake Long has been dominant, Joe Berger has surprisingly been effective at center, Vernon Carey is solid, and Richie Incognito has been effective. Jon Jerry has looked good, but he was sick and missed the Jets game and will probably miss tonight. Our rush attack struggles without him
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:49 PM    (permalink
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The Indianapolis OL is awful this season. The Giants game where we ran all over them was a gift from Perry Fewell. The fact is our LT should be the 6th man/super sub, our center and RT should be retired, our RG is a bust, and our LG is a free agent from Arena Football II. Yes, there is an Arena Football II.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wonderbredd24 View Post
Bad offensive lines have been playing badly.

The good ones are still good.

3 of the 4 teams in the AFC North can block.

The NFC East is just garbage and it's not just their offensive lines.
Nah... You fail.
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Old 10-04-2010, 02:57 PM    (permalink
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I can only speak to the Chiefs line.. we've only given up 2 sacks so far this year and have one of the top rushing attacks in the NFL, so I can't hate on them too much.. but Cassel is still hit way too often, so they need to clean it up a bit.
Cassel likes to hang on to the ball.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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I cant begin how to explain how much the Steelers o-line has improved in one year.

The additions of Maurkice Pouncey and Flozell Adams has been huge. Pouncey is an ungodly amount better than Justin Hartwig, and he's only a rookie. The battle between him and Ngata last night were epic, although Ngata made an impact (as per usual), all his plays were made over the guard. The Hotel has been miles better than i expected, i knew he was a savage run blocker, but i never knew how dominant he could be...and he has been better in pass pro than Willie Colon has been for the last few years, so its win all around. The Steelers o-line averages out at over 6'5" 335", and with the new coaching style of Sean Kugler, they have become pretty damn dominant!
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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GB gave up the most sacks last yr, if they repeat in that category I can't hear them talking up SB Run anymore.
Ok, instead of just throwing that out there for no reason at all how about you look at it first. We've only given up 5 sacks this year, 7th fewest in the NFL. That's on pace for 20, a more than acceptable amount, and not even comparable to the 50 we gave up last year. If you want to go further into it you can even look back to the second half of last year. In the last 8 games of 2009 we only gave up 14 sacks.

The first half of last season we were ridiculously terrible at giving up sacks. We have greatly improved since then and the sacks have been cut down immensely. I'm not even saying we have a good offensive line, but it's getting an unfair reputation still from those first half games of '09.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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The irony of the Cowboys' offensive line sucking is that the big question mark for everyone all off-season was Doug Free and he's played at a pro bowl level thus far, yet to give up a sack, and he looks like a vet out there.


Sadly the previous pro bowlers on the line have been playing like ass, esp Bigg. We just relied on continuity too long and had no one to replace anyone else. Thank God we hit on Free in the 4th round a few years back because if we still had Flozell we may have had the worst line in the league, or at least looked alot like Chicago.


Free is the lone bright spot, and this is why I wanted Iupati last year, some people don't like taking Guards in the 1st round but not me, not if he looks like a multi pro bowler.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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The irony of the Cowboys' offensive line sucking is that the big question mark for everyone all off-season was Doug Free and he's played at a pro bowl level thus far, yet to give up a sack, and he looks like a vet out there.


Sadly the previous pro bowlers on the line have been playing like ass, esp Bigg. We just relied on continuity too long and had no one to replace anyone else. Thank God we hit on Free in the 4th round a few years back because if we still had Flozell we may have had the worst line in the league, or at least looked alot like Chicago.


Free is the lone bright spot, and this is why I wanted Iupati last year, some people don't like taking Guards in the 1st round but not me, not if he looks like a multi pro bowler.
Free has looked great. Im surprised the rest of the line is underperforming so much though. I think they eventually pick it up.

All 4 teams in the East need the same line help. It'll be interesting to see how that effects draft day for all 4 teams. They're going to have to out maneuver each other.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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The irony of the Cowboys' offensive line sucking is that the big question mark for everyone all off-season was Doug Free and he's played at a pro bowl level thus far, yet to give up a sack, and he looks like a vet out there.


Sadly the previous pro bowlers on the line have been playing like ass, esp Bigg. We just relied on continuity too long and had no one to replace anyone else. Thank God we hit on Free in the 4th round a few years back because if we still had Flozell we may have had the worst line in the league, or at least looked alot like Chicago.


Free is the lone bright spot, and this is why I wanted Iupati last year, some people don't like taking Guards in the 1st round but not me, not if he looks like a multi pro bowler.
You would've taken Iupati over Dez? Wow.

Jerry will never draft an OL in the first, so you might as well set yourself up for disappointment once again.

Jerry will go FA or trade, like he always does.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:01 PM    (permalink
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Saints O-line has fallen off a bit. Last year, and the year prior I would have said they were elite but the group has underachieved thus far this season. Jahri, and Stinchcomb 2 Pro-Bowl guys have struggled, surprisingly Bushrod is probably the most improved in the unit.

Considering the state of other Offensive lines around the league, the Saints are probably in the middle of the pack... and some teams would probably love to have our O-line... but Drew is feeling more pressure than in years past.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay's line has been pretty damn good so far.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:07 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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Seems to me like a big part of it is that, unless you're playing the Titans or Steelers (or other run dominated offenses), defensive coordinators are instructing their guys to just sell out on the pass and dare the other team to run the ball. Sure, teams might go with the run in the first half to try and keep the defense honest, but more often than not, teams are too impatient to stick with it and just start airing it out.

I know it's a passing league now, but offensive coordinators league-wide have forgotten that running the ball is the best trick in the book to slowing a pass rush down and helping your offensive line out. Some of these pass:run ratios I'm seeing are just ridiculous.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
You would've taken Iupati over Dez? Wow.
I never said that. I said I wanted Iupati in the 1st. This was well before i had any idea Dez would be available that late and way early into the process. If we couldn't get Dez, or Earl Thomas, yes I would have gladly taken Iupati personally. But I know I was alone in that thinking though.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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No patience. Why have a 10 play drive that takes 10 minutes when you can score quickly through the air?

That's how they look at it. Some teams will smarten up and keep it old school. It seemed to work fine for Pittsburgh, who had a 4th string qb and went 3-1 during the warmest month of the season, when passing the ball is at its best.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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No patience. Why have a 10 play drive that takes 10 minutes when you can score quickly through the air?

That's how they look at it. Some teams will smarten up and keep it old school. It seemed to work fine for Pittsburgh, who had a 4th string qb and went 3-1 during the warmest month of the season, when passing the ball is at its best.
Exactly.

I think a lot of teams really looked closely at how the Saints defended the Colts in the Superbowl.

During the first half, New Orleans was basically in full-on pass rush mode from the first snap. Manning was patient, audibling to runs, working long drives, and they were gashing the Saints for some pretty good running plays.

Enter the second half, Indy loses the lead, and you see Peyton completely abandon the running game and start trying to win the game by himself. Instead of controlling the tempo of the game, he played right into Gregg Williams' gameplan: that Peyton wouldn't have the patience to milk long drives and stick with the run, when New Orleans was basically begging them to do so.
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