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Old 10-04-2010, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I never said that. I said I wanted Iupati in the 1st. This was well before i had any idea Dez would be available that late and way early into the process. If we couldn't get Dez, or Earl Thomas, yes I would have gladly taken Iupati personally. But I know I was alone in that thinking though.
Well... we got Dez, so you shouldn't be talking about wanting Iupati because you can either or.

Oh and tons of Cowobys fans wanted Iupati. Not me though. I wanted Dez, Mays or Thomas.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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I rate us top 8 in pass protection but bottom 3 in run blocking.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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I posted this in the Cowboys forum, but does anyone want to take a stab at this list of 2011 OL FAs who will actually be available come FA?

Jared Gaither, BAL
Matt Light, NE
Donald Penn, TB
Jermon Bushrod, NO
Willie Colon, PIT
Carl Nicks, NO
Logan Mankins, NE
Ryan Kalil, CAR
Daryn Colledge, GB
Evan Mathis, CIN
Alan Faneca, ARI
Tyson Clabo, ATL
Doug Free, DAL
Ryan Harris, DEN
Jon Jansen, DET
Charlie Johnson, IND
Tony Ugoh, IND
Ryan O'Callaghan, KC
Mario Henderson, OAK
Khalif Barnes, OAK
Jeromey Clary, SD
Ray Willis, SEA
Jeremy Trueblood, TB
Stephon Heyer, WAS
Reggie Wells, ARI
Deuce Lutui, ARI
Lyle Sendlein, ARI
Quinn Ojinnaka, ATL
Justin Blalock, ATL
Harvey Dahl, ATL
Marshal Yanda, BAL
Chris Chester, BAL
Josh Beekman, CHI
Olin Kreutz, CHI
Nate Livings, CIN
Kyle Cook, CIN
Kyle Kosier, DAL
Manuel Ramirez, DET
Jason Spitz, GB
Uche Nwaneri, JAC
Casey Wiegmann, KC
Rudy Niswanger, KC
Richie Incognito, MIA
Jonathan Goodwin, NO
Chris Morris, OAK
Samson Satele, OAK
Max Jean-Gilles, PHI
Nick Cole, PHI
David Baas, SF
Chris Spencer, SEA
John Greco, STL
Mark Setterstrom, STL
Davin Joseph, TB
Leroy Harris, TEN
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Well... we got Dez, so you shouldn't be talking about wanting Iupati because you can either or.

Oh and tons of Cowobys fans wanted Iupati. Not me though. I wanted Dez, Mays or Thomas.
My point was that I had a feeling our interior line was gonna let us down. I though Kosier would be pretty bad but didn't expect Davis to be as bad as he was. I still saw it as a problem, and I saw a guy who would have been a multi pro bowler in a few years IMO.

It's all hypothetical anyway, because like I said this was how I felt during the draft process, not on the actual draft day when I saw Dez falling. I'm just bringing it up due to some people thinking a Guard isn't worth a 1st round pick, or that we didn't need one. I don't know who will and won't fall in this upcoming draft either, but I bet I'm still gonna be leaning in the direction of G/C during the draft process, but that doesn't mean I'd take them over a higher rated prospect at another position I had no idea would be there.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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That's how the Colts and Pats have been doing it for 10 years. Utilizing the short passing game and taking their sweet time at the line...eating up ridiculous amounts of clock. That's what the Saints do now, and it's what the Chiefs are converting to.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Our OL is solid as always. Someone in this team has to be playing well.
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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My point was that I had a feeling our interior line was gonna let us down. I though Kosier would be pretty bad but didn't expect Davis to be as bad as he was. I still saw it as a problem, and I saw a guy who would have been a multi pro bowler in a few years IMO.

It's all hypothetical anyway, because like I said this was how I felt during the draft process, not on the actual draft day when I saw Dez falling. I'm just bringing it up due to some people thinking a Guard isn't worth a 1st round pick, or that we didn't need one. I don't know who will and won't fall in this upcoming draft either, but I bet I'm still gonna be leaning in the direction of G/C during the draft process, but that doesn't mean I'd take them over a higher rated prospect at another position I had no idea would be there.
I think your point was shared that OL was a concern. I do agree that non-Cowboys fans rose all kinds of concerns about Doug Free out of ignorance and made a big deal out of it.

I just think OL can be address outside of round 1. Even Round 2 is perfectly fine, but I agree with Jerry's philosophy on OL. FA, trade, draft (outside of rnd 1).
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Raiders oline always sucks so Im not surprised
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:03 PM    (permalink
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I posted this in the Cowboys forum, but does anyone want to take a stab at this list of 2011 OL FAs who will actually be available come FA?

Jared Gaither, BAL
Doug Free, DAL
Carl Nicks, NO
Logan Mankins, NE
Daryn Colledge, GB
Olin Kreutz, CHI
Jason Spitz, GB
-Jared Gaither is the cream of the crop. Batlimore will probably let him go and he can go to a power running team like NYG or Dallas (if they are willing to move Gaither or Free).
-Doug Free almost certainly gets resigned by Dallas. This year felt like a tryout and most reports are that he passed, so Jerry Jones will pay him.
-The Saints offense has phenomenal guards and they use every bit of their ability. They are always pulling and running all over the field on the screens and off tackle runs they use so much. Thus Nicks won't be easy for them to replace and they won't let him go.
-Logan Mankins is an excellent guard that can play in any scheme and word is he is on bad terms with the Patriots. A lot of teams will want him, especially the ones that value pass protection, but he won't come cheap like all Patriots these days. I want my Packers to grab him and get Colledge off the team.
-Olin Kreutz sucks now but he probably signs in Chicago again for 2 reasons: He is loved and known in Chicago for how good he used to be and the Bears have a history of trying, then failing to upgrade their OL only to resign guys they knew were past their prime at the last minute.
-Daryn Colledge is an average/below average guard that can only play LG in a ZBS. Green Bay likes him though simply because he never gets hurt so they will probably offer him good backup money (we've been trying to replace him but he is good depth). The market for him is so small, I don't know of another team that runs a ZBS that has a black hole at LG that would want him.
-Jason Spitz is an extremely valuable player to have because he can play LG, C, RG and do pretty well at all of them, consistently average is a good way to describe it. He is coming off a major back injury that put him on IR last year but he has had no healthy problems this year. Any team, particularly ZBS that has a muddy interior OL would love to have Spitz to fill a spot and let their guys play their way into the best lineup. Spitz was our best interior lineman for a few years at RG then took over at C last year and got hurt early. He will come cheap but he's a bargain that would improve many teams.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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Bears = worst in NFL history.

I've actually wanted to make a thread about this topic since week 1, but always figured everyone would just homer it up and either defend their team's o-line to the death or be exceptionally dramatic about saying how bad they are.

There have just been some terrible line performances so far this year, and I think it goes back to the pass whacky direction teams are going. I often hear that there just aren't enough good QBs to go around, well, there aren't enough good o-lineman to go around to support those kind of offenses.

Add to that how crazy good some of the defensive fronts in this league have gotten, and this is what we get. **** shows of offensive lines getting crushed.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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I know I mentioned it before, but I don't think Gaither makes more sense anywhere else then Detroit. This way they can still take Patrick Peterson, and why risk it in such a weak class. It's not like they have a ton of good players sucking up cap space, other then Stafford, Calvin & Suh I don't think it'd be much of a problem.


He's gonna get an incredible deal though, you can bet on that. I don't think Dallas could afford to get into a bidding war, but Mankins is another story. I'd love to trade for him to eliminate the need, but he'll be a FA too. While his deal will be pretty high, it's not like we didn't pay Davis a pretty big deal when we needed him, so I won't rule it out. Interior O-line is more of a concern then a RT I believe.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:23 PM    (permalink
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Bears = worst in NFL history.

I've actually wanted to make a thread about this topic since week 1, but always figured everyone would just homer it up and either defend their team's o-line to the death or be exceptionally dramatic about saying how bad they are.
You are right. Whenever someone makes a thread like that it's followed by 10 posts of "have you seen how many sacks my team gave up?" etc.

At a glance I'd have to agree with you. I thought maybe the Bills or Oakland or Seattle might be worse, but then I checked this:
18 sacks, 31 QB hits, both worst in NFL
3.3 YPC, 5th worse...
...but only behind Broncos, Ravens, Colts, Saints -> all teams that clearly built to throw. They get "running" yards in screens and 5 yard passes. Colts are pretty bad but giving up only 4 sacks, even if it is Peyton, I can't rate them worse than the Bears.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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I know I mentioned it before, but I don't think Gaither makes more sense anywhere else then Detroit. This way they can still take Patrick Peterson, and why risk it in such a weak class. It's not like they have a ton of good players sucking up cap space, other then Stafford, Calvin & Suh I don't think it'd be much of a problem.
I meant to add about Gaither he seems like kind of a fishy character to me. Baltimore has been trying to get rid of him for a little while. He hasn't gotten into any real trouble that I know of, I'm just speculating. He went in the 5th round of the supplemental because his grades were so bad, then when he "broke out" the Ravens seemed like they were more eager to trade him at top value than make him a lasting piece of their team. Maybe his teammates and coaches just don't like him in Baltimore.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:28 PM    (permalink
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You are right. Whenever someone makes a thread like that it's followed by 10 posts of "have you seen how many sacks my team gave up?" etc.

At a glance I'd have to agree with you. I thought maybe the Bills or Oakland or Seattle might be worse, but then I checked this:
18 sacks, 31 QB hits, both worst in NFL
3.3 YPC, 5th worse...
...but only behind Broncos, Ravens, Colts, Saints -> all teams that clearly built to throw. They get "running" yards in screens and 5 yard passes. Colts are pretty bad but giving up only 4 sacks, even if it is Peyton, I can't rate them worse than the Bears.
The Colts is the only other one I'd even listen to an argument for. And even then, Saturday still playing well and being a very heady center makes up a lot for them. Kreutz isn't the worst player on our line, but he's nowhere near where he was a few years ago when he was a pro-bowler.

Plus they've got Peyton who is incredible at reading defenses and adjusting where backs and TEs block to help out....he makes them look better still.

But, it's hard to get worse than this:

Williams/Omiyele - Garza - Kreutz - Louis - Omiyele/Shaffer

Garza and Kreutz have just gotten old and slow...Louis has some potential but makes a lot of youngster mental mistakes...Omiyele is practically worthless as a run blocker. Gets no push at all and is only on this team because JA doesn't want to look dumb for giving him a big deal in FA 2 years ago.

Oy.....this sucks.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:29 PM    (permalink
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I think your point was shared that OL was a concern. I do agree that non-Cowboys fans rose all kinds of concerns about Doug Free out of ignorance and made a big deal out of it.

I just think OL can be address outside of round 1. Even Round 2 is perfectly fine, but I agree with Jerry's philosophy on OL. FA, trade, draft (outside of rnd 1).
If we can land someone in FA(which I think is partially why we didn't make any moves this FA), I'm all for that theory. My concern is that we wait until round 2 or 3, and don't get an impact guy. I think we need some starters honestly. For sure 1 new starter at Guard, Kosier, Gurode, and Columbo may be ok next year even if they aren't the greatest options.


I don't know, we have talent but alot of concerns. CB, you can't find those guys late and hope, if you need a starter you need one early unless your lucky, Scandrick is just a slot guy and I see Newman dropping off big time. Play-making Safety, as well as players across the line.


We may have a very good RT type of player fall into our laps in the 20's, like BC's Anthony Castonzo for instance. If we happened to grab him, and Mankins I'd be ecstatic.


Our line could be in big trouble next year(were already looking pretty bad right now) if we don't find a few new starters. That would be my best case scenario, but we'd have to start cutting guys to get into a bid war for Mankins or Gaither.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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Nicks and Bushrod are almost assured to get resigned, unless they feel Charles Brown is ready next season, which I'm not so sure of.

Nicks is a lock, and the team may eventually do something with Stinchcomb to clear space for Bushrod and Brown.

Personally, I think Zach Strief can break out if given consistent playing time, he always seems to play well when he needs to come in, and he's a tackle that can function as a road grader.

Personally, I wouldn't trade Nicks and Evans for any guard in the league, so we're good there.

Goodwin is above average at the moment, hopefully Matt Tennant becomes better than that.

I've never been a fan of stinchcomb, he's a poor run blocker even if he were a LT, and really can't handle athletic rushers at all. Maybe someone will give up a high pick for him since he made the pro bowl.

I think the Saints philosophy is going to get adopted more often. With Brees, we really don't need dominant tackles, he's so good at stepping back up behind the big wall in the middle, that our tackles just have to focus on not getting beat inside.
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fwiw, i amz deunks ofs myt ass. ilo vez drinmoinz befotre i post. wha t a hreat ideas.z.

Last edited by Saints-Tigers : 10-04-2010 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:58 PM    (permalink
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I dunno... but I think the Redskins showed, you can fix your OL in one offseason. Continuity is important, but it doesn't mean you can work it out.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:05 PM    (permalink
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I think it is safe to say that the Broncos has the worst run blocking o-line in the NFL right now. 19 rushing yards yesterday, with 8 of them coming from Orton on a broken play/scramble. Maroney and Buckhalter had 17 attempts between them for 8 yards. I think the 8 of the first 10 rush plays went for zero or negative yards - that is generally not the RBs fault.

On a good day we get 2 yards per carry.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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I think the Saints philosophy is going to get adopted more often. With Brees, we really don't need dominant tackles, he's so good at stepping back up behind the big wall in the middle, that our tackles just have to focus on not getting beat inside.
Not likely. Early last year our interior line was serviceable but our tackles were absolute garbage. Every play someone would fly out from the edge and Rodgers had to take his eyes off downfield and look to find an escape route through a lot of traffic. Never worked.

Edge rushers today are so incredibly fast and explosive that if you don't block them they fly into the quarterback in what seems like an instant. Even if they don't get him, he's running and being chased now, his receivers aren't running their routes anymore, and he only has maybe a 3rd of the field to throw to and he has to do it running full speed.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Let's try to name off all the good olines in the league right now.

Baltimore
Cleveland
Miami
NYJ

I know those 4 for sure are great^

What about SD? They look pretty decent, but I wouldn't call them elite, and they can't run block either.

Tennessee took a step back this year, so not them. I haven't seen enough of Cinncy to comment on them. Same for Pittsburgh.

I can't think of any other than those 4.
I actually like the 49ers O-line and i think it will get better, ditto for the Rams.

Are the Browns the best? they're getting a 100 yards a game from Peyton Hillis and the other team knows they're going to run the ball.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Green Bay's line has been pretty damn good so far.
I definitely wouldn't go that far, but as I said earlier they're getting more crap than they deserve because of the start of last season.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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Somehow SD's O-line is beasting. The talent is not especially there...I chalk it up to favorable match ups so far and Philip's quick release. Still, the run game has showed some damn vibrant signs of life and the bolts are sporting the #1 yardage offense. Can't say they're doing poorly.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Somehow SD's O-line is beasting. The talent is not especially there...I chalk it up to favorable match ups so far and Philip's quick release. Still, the run game has showed some damn vibrant signs of life and the bolts are sporting the #1 yardage offense. Can't say they're doing poorly.
You're a 4-0 team right now if you don't let Kassim Osgood walk. I still like you guys to get to the Superbowl this season.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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The Colts is the only other one I'd even listen to an argument for. And even then, Saturday still playing well and being a very heady center makes up a lot for them. Kreutz isn't the worst player on our line, but he's nowhere near where he was a few years ago when he was a pro-bowler.

Plus they've got Peyton who is incredible at reading defenses and adjusting where backs and TEs block to help out....he makes them look better still.

But, it's hard to get worse than this:

Williams/Omiyele - Garza - Kreutz - Louis - Omiyele/Shaffer

Garza and Kreutz have just gotten old and slow...Louis has some potential but makes a lot of youngster mental mistakes...Omiyele is practically worthless as a run blocker. Gets no push at all and is only on this team because JA doesn't want to look dumb for giving him a big deal in FA 2 years ago.

Oy.....this sucks.

Every offense under martz has given up a ton of sacks and gotten the qb killed. i said it before this year, cutlers numbers will go up but martz could ruin his career as he already had a propensity for holding onto the ball and playing risky/aggressive as it was.

The bears have a bad o line, definitely one of the worst. But their coaching isnt doing anything to mask those problems either. In the end, i think it costs them all their jobs.
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Old 10-04-2010, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I definitely wouldn't go that far, but as I said earlier they're getting more crap than they deserve because of the start of last season.

The numbers say theyre good.

The eye test says peppers turned them inside out, but then again he did it to the giants a bit too, makin plays everywhere. what scares me is that the packers didnt adjust and start chipping him, which is really stupid on someone/everyones part.
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