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Old 10-04-2010, 06:10 PM    (permalink
Scotty D
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
I make fun of JA being stupid all the time. I did it last night in the discussion thread saying how we'll surely fail to address the o-line situation this year, waiting until the 7th round to draft an uber-raw developmental type while drafting an undersized receiver, small school defensive lineman and an in the box safety with our first 3 picks.

You guys put the fate of your franchise saving QB in Jeff ******* Backus who barely even moved to block Peppers on that play and who in his career, has been at the very best, average.

If you passed on him for a DB...or another o-lineman...or a d-lineman....or basically anything useful position, I'd lay off.

But Pettigrew is a ******* BLOCKING TE!! Very few things in the football world piss me off more than the thought of a BLOCKING TE. DO NOT USE A FIRST ROUND PICK ON A BLOCKING TE. I would take an athletic pass catching TE 100 out of 100 times and just teach him to try and block a little than take a blocking TE.

Or how about this novel idea? Just use a ******* 6th lineman if you want to block. Do both. Jumbo package, 2 TEs, one receiver and one converted lineman.

I mean for ***** sake, slap a number in the 80s on one your backup tackles so he check in at the position without having to check in as eligible if that's the problem.

That is why I have a major problem with what the Lions did there. Even if they hated Oher's guts and took him completely off their draft board, they should have drafted something more useful than a blocking ******* TE.

And don't even get me started on how pissed I am that we gave money and a roster spot to ******* Manumalefatass. God damn how I hate blocking ******* TEs.
So the 8 for 91 yards yesterday is pretty good for a blocking TE? He's not just a blocking TE and is still getting going from the ACL injury last year.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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So the 8 for 91 yards yesterday is pretty good for a blocking TE? He's not just a blocking TE and is still getting going from the ACL injury last year.
When he is a Tony Gonzalez and both receiving and blocking well, fine, I'll concede. He's not there yet and that's not what he was seen as when he was a prospect. His big thing was that he was such a good blocker....which is a good quality if you're also a good receiver. Then hell yeah, be taken in the first round.

But a TE who basically blocks and that's it....just convert a tackle. Seriously.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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I disagree. They are young across the board, with some holes and inconsistency. Vernon Davis can get open down the field consistently, but they need rookies Anthony Davis and Mike Iupati to pass block and Alex Smith to read it and make the throw. Sure I like Davis and Iupati, but with only 4 starts, they are much better run blockers than pass blockers and struggle picking up out of the ordinary blitzes. The same thing happens on defense. Clements is overrated (or he just sucks). Their secondary as a whole is pretty poor. Their outside linebackers are bad which forces Willis and Spikes to take on responsibilities they shouldn't have to, such as becoming big time pass rushers. Justin Smith is overrated as well.
Davis and Iupati have had two bad games and two good ones but when they have looked good, they have looked great. Give them a few more starts and they are set. Clements has been fantastic this season and it is a shame that one stupid play, after what was a great play to begin with, overshadowed that. Spencer is also a very good corner and Goldson and Mays are solid safeties. The secondary is actually above average, good at corner and average at safety. And Justin Smith is not overrated, he is one of the best 3-4 DEs in the league. The outside linebackers are not bad either, they just don't have one dominant pass rusher ala Ware or Matthews. They have a handful of guys that can get 5-7 sacks a year and put decent pressure on QBs, though.

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I'm calling time of death on this argument. the 9ers aren't that talented. Either they are on year 3 (4?) of ridiculous underachieving or they've been overrated and either way the benefit of the doubt shouldn't be there anymore. Vernon and Crabtree, okay. there's obviously some talent in the LB corps. Mays. But Detroit is building something and the pieces are better than san fran's assortment. CALVIN, Best, Suh, Stafford, Delmas, even Pettigrew...i'm a fan of all these guys and the list keeps going.
From top to bottom the 49ers have a better team than Detroit outside of QB and WR, and it is not even an argument if you ask me.

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Old 10-04-2010, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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So the 8 for 91 yards yesterday is pretty good for a blocking TE? He's not just a blocking TE and is still getting going from the ACL injury last year.
he also had some painful painful drops on catches that might have won the game for them. I like Pettigrew and think he will be a top TE in the next year or so but I'd still throw him back in a second for OL help.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I loved the Pettigrew pick, he was solid and safe. You know what you were getting with him. Let's not act like Oher was a considered sure-fire elite tackle. He was a boom or bust guy, and I (and the other teams that passed on him) weren't sold. Ravens were a team that could afford to gamble with him, and the Lions were not a team that could gamble with a 1st round pick.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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I loved the Pettigrew pick, he was solid and safe. You know what you were getting with him. Let's not act like Oher was a considered sure-fire elite tackle. He was a boom or bust guy, and I (and the other teams that passed on him) weren't sold. Ravens were a team that could afford to gamble with him, and the Lions were not a team that could gamble with a 1st round pick.
Depends on who you ask in regard to Oher. I had him as surefire. Had him rated - easily - as the Top OT. I know a lot of other people did too. It was the media and stupid scouts who just had way too long to think about him that brought his stock down.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Depends on who you ask in regard to Oher. I had him as surefire. Had him rated - easily - as the Top OT. I know a lot of other people did too. It was the media and stupid scouts who just had way too long to think about him that brought his stock down.
Draftniks were always high on him but NFL teams were obviously leery.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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The fact they passed on Oher doesn't help the Pettigrew cause...but he was a TE. Usually TE is one of the last pieces a team picks up when they're rebuilding. Just about any other position I would argue would have helped them more.

And even then, usually some very good ones are available after round 1.

I just hate almost everything about the pick.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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The fact they passed on Oher doesn't help the Pettigrew cause...but he was a TE. Usually TE is one of the last pieces a team picks up when they're rebuilding. Just about any other position I would argue would have helped them more.
I used to agree with you, but I disagree that you build a team piece-wise ie one unit after another.

I like the way Detroit is going about it. Take safe picks that are at the top of your draft board. Make sure to get a QB as soon as possible. If you don't like anyone with a #1 pick, then get a couple guys in the middle/late rounds and maybe a mid/low tier FA.

My point is, there are so many busts, you are almost always best off taking the player you have the most confidence in. 2 years ago the Lions needed to upgrade 20 or more starters, so why take a risk to fill one spot when you feel you have a sure thing at another spot? Then develop a game plan to utilize your studs and hide your duds. That is what a good, modern coach does. Hell, even if you only know how to draft quarterbacks but you are really good at it, draft them, develop them, and trade them. That is called the 90's Packers Ron Wolf strategy.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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I used to agree with you, but I disagree that you build a team piece-wise ie one unit after another.

I like the way Detroit is going about it. Take safe picks that are at the top of your draft board. Make sure to get a QB as soon as possible. If you don't like anyone with a #1 pick, then get a couple guys in the middle/late rounds and maybe a mid/low tier FA.

My point is, there are so many busts, you are almost always best off taking the player you have the most confidence in. 2 years ago the Lions needed to upgrade 20 or more starters, so why take a risk to fill one spot when you feel you have a sure thing at another spot? Then develop a game plan to utilize your studs and hide your duds. That is what a good, modern coach does. Hell, even if you only know how to draft quarterbacks but you are really good at it, draft them, develop them, and trade them. That is called the 90's Packers Ron Wolf strategy.
See, I don't what made Pettigrew better than a lot of other guys usually available later. He was a very good blocking TE in college, ok, that's nice, and he was good enough as a receiver. I don't think he has elite receiving TE skills, so the best you're getting there is a blocking TE who is also decent at catching. Something like a Heath Miller perhaps. And a perennially great Steelers team can afford to take a TE like that at the very end of the first round...add a final piece to the puzzle.

And if you're really sold that they shouldn't have picked Oher, here is a list of other guys I personally would have preferred them see over taking Oher.

Alex Mack - Very good center. A position that is becoming more and more important in the league. Raiola isn't anything spectacular...could even move one of them to guard and upgrade two spots. Who knows....he too would have been a spectacularly safe pick if that is the route they were trying to go.

Oher - obvious

Peria Jerry - Their d-line sucked just as bad as any other area on the field. They have Suh now, but at the time they had some real ****.

Vontae Davis - Turning into a pro bowl caliber corner. He'd be looking damn good for the Lions now as their secondary is perhaps their biggest area of weakness still.

Clay Matthews - LB or DE...**** it, he's dominating right now and would be worked in somewhere in that front 7 and be a major force.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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The Lions offensive line has been pretty solid this season. Backus whiffed badly against Peppers on that one sack but aside from that first game, he's been an above-average pass protector this year. The Lions offensive line as a whole has only given up 8 sacks this year (17 other teams have given up the same amount or more).
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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To me, the entire NFC West is 0-4.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:42 PM    (permalink
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Buffalo


hahahahaha, i can't say that with a stright face.
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:46 PM    (permalink
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Dallas sends
#20 overall
3rd round
6th round

Detroit sends
Roy Williams, WR

Mayhew was already playing with house money.
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Old 10-04-2010, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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The Lions offensive line has been pretty solid this season. Backus whiffed badly against Peppers on that one sack but aside from that first game, he's been an above-average pass protector this year. The Lions offensive line as a whole has only given up 8 sacks this year (17 other teams have given up the same amount or more).
I'm baffled by the Backus thing... I thought it was just a Millen deal, but Mayhew has stuck with him as well. I see him as someone who would have converted to LG and been pretty dominant a few years ago, but now it's just too late.

With the way Stafford gets injured, they should have a better backup situation than Shaun effing Hill. Their WRs and short passing game needs a ton of work, too.
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Old 10-04-2010, 09:46 PM    (permalink
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See, I don't what made Pettigrew better than a lot of other guys usually available later. He was a very good blocking TE in college, ok, that's nice, and he was good enough as a receiver. I don't think he has elite receiving TE skills, so the best you're getting there is a blocking TE who is also decent at catching. Something like a Heath Miller perhaps. And a perennially great Steelers team can afford to take a TE like that at the very end of the first round...add a final piece to the puzzle.

And if you're really sold that they shouldn't have picked Oher, here is a list of other guys I personally would have preferred them see over taking Oher.

Alex Mack - Very good center. A position that is becoming more and more important in the league. Raiola isn't anything spectacular...could even move one of them to guard and upgrade two spots. Who knows....he too would have been a spectacularly safe pick if that is the route they were trying to go.

Oher - obvious

Peria Jerry - Their d-line sucked just as bad as any other area on the field. They have Suh now, but at the time they had some real ****.

Vontae Davis - Turning into a pro bowl caliber corner. He'd be looking damn good for the Lions now as their secondary is perhaps their biggest area of weakness still.

Clay Matthews - LB or DE...**** it, he's dominating right now and would be worked in somewhere in that front 7 and be a major force.
You realize Pettigrew is second in TE receiving yardage in the NFC and first in receptions right? He might not be an elite pass catcher, but he's better than just decent.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Lions, without a doubt. Saying the Niners is a joke. Wise up, people.

Bring on 0-16/Andrew Luck.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:06 PM    (permalink
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Lions, without a doubt. Saying the Niners is a joke. Wise up, people.

Bring on 0-16/Andrew Luck.

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Old 10-04-2010, 10:07 PM    (permalink
Brent
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Don't make me laugh. I love JJ, and I think he's a decent college QB but he's overrated for draft potential. I just like to be the blind homer when it comes to A&M around these parts.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:10 PM    (permalink
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Don't make me laugh. I love JJ, and I think he's a decent college QB but he's overrated for draft potential. I just like to be the blind homer when it comes to A&M around these parts.
Ya'll will win enough to miss out on the so-called "elite" QB's....and be stuck with him.
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Old 10-04-2010, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Ya'll will win enough to miss out on the so-called "elite" QB's
it's called trading up, fool!
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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I've got them like this:

San Francisco, I think they have the best talent right now of this group and the NFC West is probably set up that the first team to 7 wins takes the division. I like their offensive and defensive lines, Patrick Willis for sure and they have some weapons on offense. What the Niners seem to lack is consistancy at QB and they havent got their act together on the sidelines yet.

Detroit, With a few breaks here and there and probably a healthy Matt Stafford this team could be at least 3-1. They have some great talent with the likes of Suh, Calvin Johnson and Stafford. I dont think the Lions talent is as good overall as the Niners but i think they may be closer to the Superbowl , if that makes any sense.

Carolina, Like what i've seen from Clausen so far and Steve Smith always gives you a chance to win but the talent level is suspect and the coaching staff may not be all that long for this world.

Buffalo, It seems like there always has to be a doormat and the Bills have become that. Spiller was a nice addition and there are a couple of guys on the defense that i like but that's about it. Clearly the frontrunner for the top pick and it becomes a question i think of do you go with a Jake locker or an Andrew Luck.
Stafford is going to be released before his first contract is over. Injuries are going to derail his career.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:28 PM    (permalink
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Detroit. Best and the running game looks promising, defensive line is great. Two biggest downfalls are at cornerback and offensive line. Jonathan Wade is not a starting caliber corner. Jeff Backus and Stephen Peterman have no business starting, Cherilus should improve.
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Old 10-04-2010, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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My advice to these four teams: keep losing.

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Old 10-04-2010, 11:33 PM    (permalink
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My advice to these four teams: keep losing.

Matt Stafford says hi
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