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Old 10-21-2010, 04:56 PM    (permalink
CC.SD
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
James Harrison is a dirty piece of ******* trash and i hope he gets in a terrible car wreck and ends up a paraplegic.
but how do you really feel
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by MetSox17 View Post
James Harrison is a dirty piece of ******* trash and i hope he gets in a terrible car wreck and ends up a paraplegic.
well if thats what you really want.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
sure but when you slow it down, you see Harrison lower himself, then Mass lowers himself into the helmet, they showed it on live about an hour ago.
but launching yourself with his helmet first into someone is doing that. he is not even raising his head.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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His head is up the entire time. Watch



Hes clearly looking at him the entire time. It even looks like he used his arms first the way he gets off of the hit.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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This is so lame... My favourite thing to do when I played in high school was ear holing the **** out of anyone.
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Old 10-21-2010, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CC.SD View Post
but how do you really feel
I do sense a certain tension in his remark, there might be some anger issues brewing.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Addict View Post
I do sense a certain tension in his remark, there might be some anger issues brewing.
nah it just sarcasm, how can you not tell? Its clear as day.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:18 PM    (permalink
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How are Dustin Keller and Steve Smith not defenseless?
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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They didnt get hurt after the hit......

I love the hitting the punter one, the dude totally got nailed in te helmet yet they say the guy hitting him made a good adjustment.
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Old 10-21-2010, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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http://www.steelersdepot.com/2010/10...-motion-video/
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:09 PM    (permalink
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soooo...Mass isn't defenseless cause he had time to react?
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:21 PM    (permalink
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Mass brought his head down into harrison's. Fine him
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:22 PM    (permalink
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How are Dustin Keller and Steve Smith not defenseless?
They are defenseless, the issue isn't hitting defenseless receivers(part of football), it's contact with the helmet. Not just helmet to helmet, but also the shoulder and forearm to helmet. The clean hits they showed were guys going in there to demolish the receiver, but they made shoulder to chest contact, which is clean.

Looking at the Massaquoi hit, I honestly don't know how it could be avoided. Even wrapping up would have resulted in some helmet to helmet contact there. I like to think the only suspension that would result from last week's plays was the Meariweather hit, because that was really malicious.
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Old 10-21-2010, 07:58 PM    (permalink
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"Using the head, forearm or shoulder to deliver the initial hit against a defenseless player will draw significant discipline."
So let me get this straight... if a receiver jumps to catch the ball you have 3 options, you can drop kick him, you can go some kind of dragonball Z style hand first lunge or you can politely let him catch the ball, let him make a football move and then tackle him.

That is an absolute ******** "rule". I have no problem with protecting the head from unnecessary contact but that makes no mention of the head at all and by including the Robinson hit in their video they have made it clear that this is not a protecting the head issue at all. That is just pathetic, honestly as someone who has played, there really isn't anything you can do but lead with a forearm or shoulder at the least, hell a form tackle is lead by the shoulder, basically it is saying the ONLY real option is to let the receiver complete his catch and make his football move so as to no longer be defenseless.

RIDICULOUS, please quietly crawl into a hole and die whoever is making these decisions.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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So let me get this straight... if a receiver jumps to catch the ball you have 3 options, you can drop kick him, you can go some kind of dragonball Z style hand first lunge or you can politely let him catch the ball, let him make a football move and then tackle him.

That is an absolute ******** "rule". I have no problem with protecting the head from unnecessary contact but that makes no mention of the head at all and by including the Robinson hit in their video they have made it clear that this is not a protecting the head issue at all. That is just pathetic, honestly as someone who has played, there really isn't anything you can do but lead with a forearm or shoulder at the least, hell a form tackle is lead by the shoulder, basically it is saying the ONLY real option is to let the receiver complete his catch and make his football move so as to no longer be defenseless.

RIDICULOUS, please quietly crawl into a hole and die whoever is making these decisions.
It's saying that you cant break up a pass without shoulder charging clothes lining or using your head basically.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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It's saying that you cant break up a pass without shoulder charging clothes lining or using your head basically.
I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but it is outlawing contact with receivers, so unless you get to the ball first, if a receiver leaves his feet(thus becoming defenseless) you basically can't touch him, because it is almost impossible to make contact withsome without leading with either a forearm or shoulder, honestly, try it you basically have to limbo under someone to not lead with either of those two things.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:59 PM    (permalink
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Have you guys seen the video?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...?module=HP_cp2

The text you quoted doesn't mention the head, but the video does, and shows examples of clean hits with the shoulder to the chest.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing, but it is outlawing contact with receivers
"Using the head, forearm or shoulder to deliver the initial hit against a defenseless player will draw significant discipline."

I'm telling you that it's saying you can't lead with the head, plow with a shoulder, or lead with your forearm, basically to deliver a "vicious" hit is what it's saying.

You don't have to lead with a forearm charged shoulder or the dome of your helmet to tackle someone, not saying whether or not i agree with the statement but i'm telling you what it's saying.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
"Using the head, forearm or shoulder to deliver the initial hit against a defenseless player will draw significant discipline."

I'm telling you that it's saying you can't lead with the head, plow with a shoulder, or lead with your forearm, basically to deliver a "vicious" hit is what it's saying.

You don't have to lead with a forearm charged shoulder or the dome of your helmet to tackle someone, not saying whether or not i agree with the statement but i'm telling you what it's saying.
There isn't a lot of other ways to defend a receiver going for a catch. A form tackle leads with both the forearm and the shoulder. Again, I have no problem with not allowing people to do that going for the head, but they haven't mentioned the head in what I quoted, that is the whole defenseless receiver(which is pretty much a receiver going for a catch) and if you aren't allowed to even form tackle a receiver what are you meant to do.

Again, the distinction for me is between protecting the head and outlawing contact. The inclusion of Robinson in that video says this is outlawing contact, not protecting heads.

Having watched the Video, what is the difference between Robinson, Lewis and "Kansas City Player", other than that Dunta and DeSean were hurt? The only difference was that DeSean had lowered his head to protect himself and that there was more force involved, there was no head contact or neck contact.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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When they say leading with it they're going to be meaning hits like Merriweathers, TJ Wards (in my avatar), and I can't think of a recent example of leading with a forearm but there are plenty of good ways to tackle without blowing a receiver up, you see it on almost every play of the game.

The problem with the NFL's theory is that defenders are gonna have a much harder time dislodging the ball on impact if they aren't allowed to lead with a shoulder on some hits.

I believe they won't fine some shoulder hits as long as they are good clean contact but if the ball is past the receiver or completely uncatchable and a defender delivers a vicious hit then they will probably see a fine.

Me personally, I disagree with not being able to lead with a shoulder as long as its a good clean football hit and on time, not late.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by wogitalia View Post
A form tackle leads with both the forearm and the shoulder.
Um, come again?
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:42 PM    (permalink
wogitalia
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I believe they won't fine some shoulder hits as long as they are good clean contact but if the ball is past the receiver or completely uncatchable and a defender delivers a vicious hit then they will probably see a fine.
I don't have a problem with that, it's plays like Robinson's and Harrison's where they were defending a pass that I disagree with. If the ball is past and clearly uncatchable there is no need for a hit and it should be punished.

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but there are plenty of good ways to tackle without blowing a receiver up, you see it on almost every play of the game.
Check the Ray Lewis hit included in the video, he leads with his shoulder, as you should when form tackling.

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Um, come again?
See above, that is a perfect form tackle, the head is tucked in to the shoulder pads, he gets low gets his arms out in front, wraps and drives through leading with the shoulder. That is how you tackle. That is a perfect form tackle but as a result it is lead by the shoulder. A perfect form tackle leads with the shoulder and wraps up with the forearms making the contact. That is the problem I have, I mean the only difference between the Dunta hit and Lewis' hit is the wrapping of the arms. If that is going to be the rule, make that the rule, don't use unclear language that makes it completely discretionary as to whether a hit is legal or not.

Still stand by that suspensions are an awful thing, they punish the fans more than anyone else, donate as much to charities as you want, it's not my money and it really is a forced good deed, but suspensions are horrible, especially if it is going to be a case by case crapshoot for whether you get suspended or not because no two situations are identical.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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Check the Ray Lewis hit included in the video, he leads with his shoulder, as you should when form tackling.
Don't they say in the video that this is a good example of a clean hit and allowed?
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:49 PM    (permalink
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A form tackle leads with the shoulder. How the **** do you tackle without your shoulder? And the only difference between the "clean hits" in the video was that the offensive players didnt lower their heads.
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Old 10-21-2010, 09:57 PM    (permalink
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And ray lewis didnt wrap up at all. his arms were crossed to make a hit. In the Harrisonn massoqoi hit harrison went low and mass went down and made their heads hit. ******* stupid
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