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Old 10-18-2010, 09:15 PM    (permalink
PackerLegend
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Seriously wtf? You dont need to intentionally spear helmet to helmet to have a big hit. Apparently thats hard to understand.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:16 PM    (permalink
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Seriously wtf? You dont need to intentionally spear helmet to helmet to have a big hit. Apparently thats hard to understand.
Exactly... the biggest and best hits are usually the cleanest
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Seriously wtf? You dont need to intentionally spear helmet to helmet to have a big hit. Apparently thats hard to understand.
Who is saying that you need to spear helmet to helmet to have a big hit?? I have pretty much read every post in this thread and I don't remember seeing it.

For those against the suspensions, I think the consensus is that helmet to helmet hits just happen naturally in the sport of football. Sometimes they are worse than others and sometimes players do lead with the helmet. But more often than not it is just one football player running into another football player. It is a contact sport for crying out loud.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Meriweather launced with his head only, he was intentionally going for helmet to helmet. The only time guys like that feel sorry is when they seriously injure another player, but as long as the WR gets up a lot of these defenders could care less about being fined for helmet to helmet contact. I'm actually in agreement with this suspensions. Of course there will be grey areas but these players need to learn how to hit properly. People don't care now but if Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald miss the year because of helmet to helmet contact people all of a sudden will be crying for more action.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by terribletowel39 View Post
Who is saying that you need to spear helmet to helmet to have a big hit?? I have pretty much read every post in this thread and I don't remember seeing it.

For those against the suspensions, I think the consensus is that helmet to helmet hits just happen naturally in the sport of football. Sometimes they are worse than others and sometimes players do lead with the helmet. But more often than not it is just one football player running into another football player. It is a contact sport for crying out loud.
Exactly no one here has said they want their players spearing anyone, we just want our defenders to be able to keep playing hard hitting football.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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It may be a contact sport, but I don't see anybody making similar arguments about when a guy gets flagged for hitting a guy who had a foot out of bounds or taking out a guys knees. These are surely things which sometimes simply happen as a result of it being a contact sport, but no one pretends that it's alright because it's difficult not to do. They call it a stupid play because the player didn't exercise enough control to make a legal play.

This isn't a question of whether concussions can be eradicated from the game, it's a question of whether they can be reduced.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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The Cribbs hit wasn't a problem to me...

The Massaquoi hit is everything the supposed rules are trying to stop. Massaquoi was defenseless, Harrison, led with his head, and went helmet to helmet. There was a flag on the play... delay of game on Alex Mack. No call on Harrison.

Considering that people were calling TJ Ward dirty when he led with his shoulder, it's funny that James Harrison is just playing physical football.

You're supposed to see what you hit... Harrison puts his head down and uses it as a weapon when he hits. When he goes and gets himself seriously injured like David Pollack did having his head down going into Reuben Droughns' shoulder, I will not be surprised.

If you don't want to call the rule as written, don't have it on the books.
I'm inclined to call you biased since this is completely and 100% inaccurate.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:27 PM    (permalink
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It may be a contact sport, but I don't see anybody making similar arguments about when a guy gets flagged for hitting a guy who had a foot out of bounds or taking out a guys knees. These are surely things which sometimes simply happen as a result of it being a contact sport, but no one pretends that it's alright because it's difficult not to do. They call it a stupid play because the player didn't exercise enough control to make a legal play.

This isn't a question of whether concussions can be eradicated from the game, it's a question of whether they can be reduced.
I think the best way to reduce it is to extend the regular season to 18 games.




















I just quoted Roger Goodell.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:29 PM    (permalink
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Personally I think the only hit that should have been illegal was the merriweather one. He consciously decided to launch himself high instead of going low.


I have no problem w/ the helmet to helmet rules. Someone is gonna die in the NFL when a person is defenseless and someone goes and targets thier helmet like that.

But it is football and helmet to helmet hits will happen naturally in the NFL.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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It may be a contact sport, but I don't see anybody making similar arguments about when a guy gets flagged for hitting a guy who had a foot out of bounds or taking out a guys knees. These are surely things which sometimes simply happen as a result of it being a contact sport, but no one pretends that it's alright because it's difficult not to do. They call it a stupid play because the player didn't exercise enough control to make a legal play.

This isn't a question of whether concussions can be eradicated from the game, it's a question of whether they can be reduced.
I thinks that's because there is a difference between what can happen because of a cheap shot and what may happen as part of the game. If a guy is a foot out of bounds, I'm probably going to be the last guy to *****. If my MLB lines up a RB and goes to lay the wood while that RB drops his head and prepares to accelerate through the tackle, Hell, I want to see that.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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There's no doubt that the NFL has a serious organizational cognitive disjunct there, but that doesn't mean I would support eliminating all attempts to reduce concussions as a result.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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One or two guys getting suspended would clean it up over night. Now you fine a guy, he donates it to his favorite charity and he gets a ####ing writeoff. As was pointed out when some 7th rounder puts Larry Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson out for several games then it becomes a problem. This isnt the NHL where you have goons going after guys. (they hardly even do that anymore)
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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It may be a contact sport, but I don't see anybody making similar arguments about when a guy gets flagged for hitting a guy who had a foot out of bounds or taking out a guys knees. These are surely things which sometimes simply happen as a result of it being a contact sport, but no one pretends that it's alright because it's difficult not to do. They call it a stupid play because the player didn't exercise enough control to make a legal play.

This isn't a question of whether concussions can be eradicated from the game, it's a question of whether they can be reduced.
There hasn't been a thread made about it.

I think most of those calls are ridiculous. Playing at full speed, I would go as far to say it is impossible to stop from hitting someone out of bounds. Again, there are exceptions to everything. Like the Trent Green block a few years ago on that Texans DT. And when it is obvious the runner has basically stopped running and someone still comes in and tackles him. But again, football speed, **** happens.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:34 PM    (permalink
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I'm inclined to call you biased since this is completely and 100% inaccurate.
What a useful post

You posted the clip... Harrison leads with his head, his head is down when he hits, hits him in the head with his head, and he is clearly launching himself up in the air as illustrated by how ******* high he ends up in the air after the hit.

It doesn't get much more cut and dry than that hit.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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Some are you guys are being idiots. Football is a violent game obviously and things happen but some of these hits are intentional. To actually be thrilled by cheap spots because thats what they are is ridiculous. You guys love seeing 20 year olds laying on the ground not moving? Apparently some of you need to see a big name player end up paralysed because of a cheap shot before you realise how stupid you sound cheering these hits on.

I think suspensions should be handed down because a fine doesn't do anything. I do not think anywhere close to every helmet to helmet hit should deem a suspension but some should. Like I said I think its a good thing but I just hope they dont go to crazy and suspended on every hit. We dont need guys in the hospital because they have temporary lost movement to make football better.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:37 PM    (permalink
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I thinks that's because there is a difference between what can happen because of a cheap shot and what may happen as part of the game. If a guy is a foot out of bounds, I'm probably going to be the last guy to *****. If my MLB lines up a RB and goes to lay the wood while that RB drops his head and prepares to accelerate through the tackle, Hell, I want to see that.
And I'm not going to pretend I don't. I remember being pretty young and watching Eddie George and Ray Lewis initiate hit after hit in the hole. I enjoy watching big hits as much as the next guy, but I'm also unwilling to pretend like that desire means that the NFL should just say "**** it" with regards to keeping their players healthy enough to give their HOF induction speech without sounding like Lennie from Of Mice and Men.

Personally, I have a lot more fun watching great tacklers like Ray Lewis and Patrick Willis: guys who are great enough athletes to maintain form at the speed of the NFL today; who get low, keep their head up, and explode horizontally, driving their shoulder into a player than the guys who play with no control and often get themselves and others hurt as a result.
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Old 10-18-2010, 09:51 PM    (permalink
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I think the idea of suspension is dumb. The league already throws out $5,000-$25,000 fines at good solid hits already. That is bogus enough.

Dumb.
These types of hits (using the rock-hard shell helmet as a weapon) are wreckless, dangerous, and cowardly.

These DBs and LBs think they're so tough with those rock shells, using them as weapons all the time. I have no respect for anyone who leads with their heads.

I've been bitching about these hits for a long time, whether it's a guy helmet to helmet on a QB, nailing a defenseless receiver, or the DBs who come in late to a pile and stick their helmet into the ribs or shoulder of a RB who's already going down.

Rodney Harrison was spot-on last night saying the fines MEAN S***! They don't deter anyone from doing those wicked things. But suspensions DO. So there you go.

There are 2 ways to stop those unnecessary, violent hits:
#1- Heavy suspensions, as the Around the Horn guys said today, and Rodney said last night.
#2- Make the players go back to the old days with leather helmets. Let's see how many times Brandon Meriweather, James Harrison, and Dontay (Dunta) Robinson lead with their heads again for kill shots. I guarantee it won't be more than one time.

I love this game, but the worst thing about it is because of the equipment, the size and speed of the guys, and the more "jacked-up" violent nature of players, there are more injuries than there need to be. I know there are going to be injuries (I'm a Packer fan so I know), but there are ways to cut some of them down. The NFL and NFLPA need to cut down wherever they can. These are one area they need to put some teeth in the rules. Now.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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If they want less hits, stop making a pass friendly league.

If the WR is going to go over the middle he is going to get hit. There are some guys who are going to the helmet to helmet hit, and you have to take them out. But sometimes it just happens and where do you draw that line.

Also by taking the player out(suspending) is this making it a better product for the fan...like they want.

I still think the defenseless WR is a dumb rule, makes no sense. What your not suppose to get their the same time as the ball does? Or let him establish possession, make a football move and have 2 steps and then hit him...no dropped passes ever cause of collisions then.

Also those using your hard shell as a weapon is bad, but its almost that, or use your face mask. Your face mask sticks out over your whole body, you think it might get crushed? Or worse they get whip lash or neck snaps back.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by J-Mike88 View Post
These types of hits (using the rock-hard shell helmet as a weapon) are wreckless, dangerous, and cowardly.

These DBs and LBs think they're so tough with those rock shells, using them as weapons all the time. I have no respect for anyone who leads with their heads.

I've been bitching about these hits for a long time, whether it's a guy helmet to helmet on a QB, nailing a defenseless receiver, or the DBs who come in late to a pile and stick their helmet into the ribs or shoulder of a RB who's already going down.

Rodney Harrison was spot-on last night saying the fines MEAN S***! They don't deter anyone from doing those wicked things. But suspensions DO. So there you go.

There are 2 ways to stop those unnecessary, violent hits:
#1- Heavy suspensions, as the Around the Horn guys said today, and Rodney said last night.
#2- Make the players go back to the old days with leather helmets. Let's see how many times Brandon Meriweather, James Harrison, and Dontay (Dunta) Robinson lead with their heads again for kill shots. I guarantee it won't be more than one time.

I love this game, but the worst thing about it is because of the equipment, the size and speed of the guys, and the more "jacked-up" violent nature of players, there are more injuries than there need to be. I know there are going to be injuries (I'm a Packer fan so I know), but there are ways to cut some of them down. The NFL and NFLPA need to cut down wherever they can. These are one area they need to put some teeth in the rules. Now.
You are acting like Eric Smith just broke Anquan Boldin's jaw. "These hits." The days of Ryan Clark leading with his head, Eric Smith breaking Boldin's jaw are pretty much over. "These hits" that have players launching and leading with the crown of their helmet are not happening and it only happened once this past week. WTF are you talking about? The fines and penalties have trained defenders to lead with their shoulder. And thats what defenders are doing... leading with their shoulder pad. And people still ***** and moan about helmets and defenseless receivers.

Defenders are trained to be instinctive. It's why they watch film. They are trained to break up passes. They are trained to hit with their shoulders. And thats what the great majority of them are doing. The NFL is demanding that receivers be given ample time to catch the ball and then take a step or two (not really sure) before being hit. So basically, any time a defender has a pass thrown to him in the end zone, the defender is supposed to go for the INT or give up. It's a joke.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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Are a lot of these hits the result of bad tackling form?
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bhaarat316 View Post
If they want less hits, stop making a pass friendly league.

If the WR is going to go over the middle he is going to get hit. There are some guys who are going to the helmet to helmet hit, and you have to take them out. But sometimes it just happens and where do you draw that line.

Also by taking the player out(suspending) is this making it a better product for the fan...like they want.

I still think the defenseless WR is a dumb rule, makes no sense. What your not suppose to get their the same time as the ball does? Or let him establish possession, make a football move and have 2 steps and then hit him...no dropped passes ever cause of collisions then.

Also those using your hard shell as a weapon is bad, but its almost that, or use your face mask. Your face mask sticks out over your whole body, you think it might get crushed? Or worse they get whip lash or neck snaps back.
This is true. The more wide open and the faster people are moving, the more violent the collions are. Everything is in a much closer, contained area when running the football. You might see some more leg and ankle injuries, but defenseless guys jumping in the air won't be getting their bell rung.
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Also those using your hard shell as a weapon is bad, but its almost that, or use your face mask. Your face mask sticks out over your whole body, you think it might get crushed? Or worse they get whip lash or neck snaps back.
Um, what? Have you ever played football? Anyone who's even played a year of football as a high school freshman would know the two options most certainly are not "either hit them with the crown of your helmet or hit them with your facemask".
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Are a lot of these hits the result of bad tackling form?
Some of them, definitely
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Old 10-18-2010, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Um, what? Have you ever played football? Anyone who's even played a year of football as a high school freshman would know the two options most certainly are not "either hit them with the crown of your helmet or hit them with your facemask".
I have. Just look at those hits where they lead with the crown, say instead they look up...what then goes smash. Robinson lead with his shoulder, but his head still came down and so then does the top of his helmet.

This is why they should practice tackling in training camp, and take guys to the ground instead of thuds.
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Old 10-18-2010, 11:06 PM    (permalink
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Are there any physics majors here?

Can anyone scientifically (but in English) explain to me what would happen to players heads if the outside ot the helmet had some type of thin padding to it? Very thin, kind of thin, bigger, etc.

Anyone ride/play bumper cards as a kid? Those bumbers have some absorption to them on the extrerior, not rock hard.

When players get fingers ripped up, smashed, broken, by rock hard helmets, I've always wondered why the aren't padded on the outside. Now all these concussion crushing head shots..... anyone here have a physics background here able to explain this?
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