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Old 10-19-2010, 12:10 AM    (permalink
umphrey
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Suspensions coming for "devastating hits" and "head shots". They wrote it so ambiguous that they can use it whenever the hell they want. I say watch a guy play over an entire season as blocks of time frames. Hand down penalties and fines when it happens. When a guy starts ringing up a tab let him know that hey you are making illegal hits - fix it or we'll kick you out of the league. Don't slap a suspension on a guy right away for the next week for bad timing. That's not fair to him or the fans.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:10 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a physics major, but I've always understood that NFL helmets are designed to take a lot of the physical force and distribute it across the surface. The surface is hard so that the force can transfer along the entire surface area instead of being localized. I imagine (really, this is just me speculating) that a padded exterior would keep the force more localized since the distribution of force would be less efficient. I have no idea what a very thin layer would do, but I can imagine it would lessen the degree that the hard shell could take the force.

I don't have data as to whether it would be a net gain or loss, but it doesn't seem to me that it would be a gain.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:14 AM    (permalink
niel89
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Not all players are going for these hits. Its only a some players that intentionally look to get helmet on helmet or target the head. Yes there is some incidental contact, but these aren't accidental hits. They target the other players head and get these high tackles.

The only hit I really have a problem with is the Merriweather hit. I want my defense to play fast and aggressive, but only if they can control themselves.

These guys will continue to do it because there is no real consequence. A current fine is a drop in the bucket. A suspension/major fine would make these guys (those who target the head/lead with the helmet) step back and change how they come at a player, or face a suspension.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:17 AM    (permalink
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If they want less hits, stop making a pass friendly league.
It took this long, but someone finally got it.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:19 AM    (permalink
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I'm not a physics major, but I've always understood that NFL helmets are designed to take a lot of the physical force and distribute it across the surface. The surface is hard so that the force can transfer along the entire surface area instead of being localized. I imagine (really, this is just me speculating) that a padded exterior would keep the force more localized since the distribution of force would be less efficient. I have no idea what a very thin layer would do, but I can imagine it would lessen the degree that the hard shell could take the force.

I don't have data as to whether it would be a net gain or loss, but it doesn't seem to me that it would be a gain.
You are correct. Imagine a helmet getting hit by a hammer. With the rigid outer body the molecules of the entire outer body shell vibrate and transfer the energy from the hit to the foam padding touching the majority of your forehead. You do the same thing to a helmet that is not rigid then you put a dent in a guys head. If you do the same thing to a helmet that has a layer of rigid hard plastic sandwiched inside of two pads, you get the same effect as the original, except you have added mass and thus momentum (increasing damage) and volume (increasing probability of occurrence).
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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I'm livid right now. **** Roger Goodell. Such a goddamn overreaction this is going to ruin the league.
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:28 AM    (permalink
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I'm livid right now. **** Roger Goodell. Such a goddamn overreaction this is going to ruin the league.
yeah pretty much
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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The only hit worthy of suspension was the merriweather one. If they are going to start suspending guys for laying the wood like Robinson and Harrison did then they are going to ruin the league. Suspending a player for putting a "devastating" hit on someone is the worst idea i have ever heard. Clearly leading with the helmet resulting in a helmet to helmet is the only justifiable grounds for a suspension, everything else is pussyshit. This is the NFL, none of these players are being forced to play, if you cant take the hits go find yourself a 9-5
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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what about shoulder to helmet?
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Old 10-19-2010, 12:48 AM    (permalink
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what about shoulder to helmet?
if its a hard hit, the player will be suspended
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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if its a hard hit, the player will be suspended
Which is an absolute embarrassment to the game of football
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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Oh whatever. There's been plenty of hits that were flagged for unnecessary roughness that didn't result in any fine or suspension. Let's not suffer the doomsayers in this thread.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:05 AM    (permalink
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A forceful shot to the head should be a suspension. I said it when Welker got cheap shotted by Eric Smith and I said it after Brandon Meriweather tried to do it to Todd Heap.

With what is coming out now about head injuries, this is completely unacceptable. You don't have to go for the head. I'm all for forceful hits to the body, but a cheap-shot to the head to try to concuss someone and get them out of the game is just unacceptable.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Oh whatever. There's been plenty of hits that were flagged for unnecessary roughness that didn't result in any fine or suspension. Let's not suffer the doomsayers in this thread.
Hopefully this continues to be the case. But you would think not after the NFL issues a statement that there gonna crackdown
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:12 AM    (permalink
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Remember those days? The NFL defended that hit and said it was clean, ESPN went apeshit and yelled,"************, you JACKED UP!!!!" And all was right with the world.

Now a player gets hurt and everyone is bitting their nails and saying, "This game is BULLSH!T!!!! Why are these big, mean defenders doing this?!?!?!!?"


How far we've fallen in just two short years. What a shame.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:20 AM    (permalink
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I'm completely fine with suspending guys for blatantly going for the head, it's dangerous and unnecessary. The only problem I have is the league hasn't been all that great when it comes to enforcing rules like this properly. What happens when there's a helmet to helmet hit that by all accounts appears to be unintentional? Sometimes the offensive player moves/reacts at the last minute and **** happens. I don't exactly trust the leagues judgment when it comes to discerning between what merits punishment and what doesn't in situations like that.

Take the roughing the passer rule for example, there's hardly a week that goes by where we don't see someone getting a penalty or fine for a "hit" on the QB that was actually more of a love tap. The difference is now there's the possibility that guys will be getting suspended for it.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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Not a fan at all of suspensions, suspensions punish the fans far more than the players, I say that as someone who has watched AFL(Aussie Rules) for years and they have gotten continually softer with these same sorts of moves that just result in players being punished for things that are already covered in the rules.

I don't mind fining players for hits like Merriweathers, I would say that Massaquoi was at least as much to blame for the helmet to helmet contact with Harrison as he protected himself by lowering his head.

I'm fine with fines and flags for malicious helmet to helmet hits, but there absolutely needs to be a distinction between helmet to helmet and incidental helmet to helmet, where due to the speed, force and other circumstances there happens to be a head clash. Head's are going to clash in the sport and that should not be a penalty.

NFL really is going overboard right now with trying to make changes, it is very similar to the AFL right now, when you have a rules committee whose sole job is to review and change rules then you are paying people to mess with the game, their jobs DEPEND on them making changes, whether they are needed, justified or actually good for the game. It's like any job, you tell someone they will be fired if they aren't doing anything and they will find something to do, even if it is a waiter just wiping an already clean table, rules committees are the same thing, the sport is fine but their jobs depend on them creating something wrong and changing it, it's a stupid system.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:31 AM    (permalink
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I'm completely fine with suspending guys for blatantly going for the head, it's dangerous and unnecessary. The only problem I have is the league hasn't been all that great when it comes to enforcing rules like this properly. What happens when there's a helmet to helmet hit that by all accounts appears to be unintentional? Sometimes the offensive player moves/reacts at the last minute and **** happens. I don't exactly trust the leagues judgment when it comes to discerning between what merits punishment and what doesn't in situations like that.

Take the roughing the passer rule for example, there's hardly a week that goes by where we don't see someone getting a penalty or fine for a "hit" on the QB that was actually more of a love tap. The difference is now there's the possibility that guys will be getting suspended for it.
We're already seeing the effect of the "defenseless receiver" rule. The Jets safety, Jim Leonard, had a 15 yard penalty for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Brandon Lloyd... and he wasn't even close to his head. It was an atrocious call. But because Leonard hit him high, they threw the flag. It was a terrible call. No one is talking about it because there was more physical play from last week that covered it all up.

This is what happens when the NFL writes more rules and creates more vague rules than the game deserves. You have TDs taken away in week 1 and you have clean hits getting flags, fines and now... suspensions. The game will no longer be decided on the field. We all have to get used to that depressing fact. The outcome will come down to a penalty, phantom or not. A bullsh.t rule or a ******** call. Its Roger Goodell's NFL. And nothing gets fans more pleased with the NFL than talking about rules and penalties and not what actually happens on game day. James Harrison had 11 tackles, 1 FF and 1.5 sacks... but we're talking about him possibly getting suspended instead.

I just can't wait for 18 games of it. 16 isn't enough.
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Old 10-19-2010, 01:34 AM    (permalink
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NFL really is going overboard right now with trying to make changes, it is very similar to the AFL right now, when you have a rules committee whose sole job is to review and change rules then you are paying people to mess with the game, their jobs DEPEND on them making changes, whether they are needed, justified or actually good for the game. It's like any job, you tell someone they will be fired if they aren't doing anything and they will find something to do, even if it is a waiter just wiping an already clean table, rules committees are the same thing, the sport is fine but their jobs depend on them creating something wrong and changing it, it's a stupid system.
I don't think this is the case. I think it was the 3 hours before the game, 3 hours after the game, and during the game ESPN spent talking about it, plus all weekend, and the week before this one, and the week before that.
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Old 10-19-2010, 05:46 AM    (permalink
Brown Leader
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
I'm inclined to call you biased since this is completely and 100% inaccurate.
I'm inclined to agree. Slowing it down Harrison was using his shoulder[whether or not he intended to hit with his head is arguable] and not his head-he did launch-but I don't have a problem with hits like this. Similar to the TJ Ward hit, they're probably avoidable, but it's part of the game imo. But his other hit was deliberate.
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Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP View Post
Meriweather launced with his head only, he was intentionally going for helmet to helmet. The only time guys like that feel sorry is when they seriously injure another player, but as long as the WR gets up a lot of these defenders could care less about being fined for helmet to helmet contact. I'm actually in agreement with this suspensions. Of course there will be grey areas but these players need to learn how to hit properly. People don't care now but if Andre Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald miss the year because of helmet to helmet contact people all of a sudden will be crying for more action.
And that's exactly what Harrison's hit on Cribbs was. Harrison made a split-second decision to spear to the guy's head. As Harrison runs up from the side he see's Cribbs getting held up, barely moving forward and unaware of him-he targets Cribbs head and lowers his, attempting to run through and spear him...





...mission accomplished. Unfortunately that grey area means the new rule will apply to any and all hits unless they'll start using replay to determine what was legal, nonlegal.
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Last edited by Brown Leader : 10-19-2010 at 06:07 AM.
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Old 10-19-2010, 07:44 AM    (permalink
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Now a player gets hurt and everyone is bitting their nails and saying, "This game is BULLSH!T!!!! Why are these big, mean defenders doing this?!?!?!!?"

How far we've fallen in just two short years. What a shame.
No, that's called progress.
We don't need players heads knocked off in this game.
This sport is the best, and that kind of missile launching is unnecessary and dangerous period.

The rule for decades was for a defender to SEE WHAT THEY WERE TRYING TO TACKLE.... the hits we saw Sunday showed that all these defenders eyes were pointed at the ground, because their rock-hard shells were pointed at the victims head.

The NFL is great without these things, so if they can clean it up and save some guys head from getting busted, jaw from getting broken, even protect the head-hunter from paralyzing himself, then they need to act sooner than later.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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Suspensions are more expensive than fines, they caost players gamechecks. When in doubt, or there media pressure Goodell always uses his heaviest caliber punitive weapons.

I guess we can add Merriwether, Harrison and Dunta Robinson to Haynesworth on the All Dirtiest Players in the NFL defense now.

All you ADPitNFL wannabees: Hurry & get a suspension, light up somebody now! places are filling up fast!

Harrison gets a dbl star ** for taking out 2 opponent players in one game, this ESPN article did everything but call him a thug for "deliberately" trying to hurt/take out opponents. He's the leading contender for the Jack "They Call Me Assassin" Tatum Award. Jack is smiling down from the afterlife on Harrison now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5699976

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Old 10-19-2010, 10:11 AM    (permalink
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How come the offensive players don't take any blame?

They shouldn't lower their helmet either like a battering ram. Its called lowering your shoulder not, the crown of your helmet as a ram.

On offense when you lower your shoulder going full speed by gravity and just your body your head tilts forward. The same is true for defensive player if you lower you shoulder going full speed you head is going to come down
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:14 AM    (permalink
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Oh whatever. There's been plenty of hits that were flagged for unnecessary roughness that didn't result in any fine or suspension. Let's not suffer the doomsayers in this thread.
There are a lot more fines we don't hear about. Even if they don't get flagged they still get fined. We may not hear about it.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:25 AM    (permalink
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There are a lot more fines we don't hear about. Even if they don't get flagged they still get fined. We may not hear about it.
Last week in overtime, the redskin helmet to helmeted Rodgers on his rushed interception.
Packer fans and unbiased observers thought that should have been a penalty, but the zebra right there felt otherwise.

4 days later, the NFL fined the player for his illegal hit.

Go figure. I'd rather the penalty and not the fine.

And I'd rather the ref get fined for missing the crucial overtime missed call even though that's his main job, watch and protect the QB.
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