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Old 03-20-2007, 11:23 AM    (permalink
bsaza2358
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I don't doubt that there is rampant use of illegal substances across many of these major sports. Even with all the work that these people do, humans aren't supposed to get that big. Physiologically, it's not supposed to happen. There are photos from last year's combine. Mario Williams and Bunkley and a lot of other guys are ripped to a point that is superhuman. While they are working out all the time, no one should be able to look that huge.

It pains me to say it, but I have a feeling that Brian Dawkins is on some sort of steroids. He had a huge drop-off in 2005, then the last 2 seasons, he has busted out tremendously and returned to his pro-bowl form. He made a flying tackle against the Giants this year where he jumped 7-8 feet headfirst and crushed some guy. This is at age 33. While Dawk was always a bit of a freak, it doesn't make sense...
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Old 03-20-2007, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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People who say Merriman's results are solely based on his steroid usage are either Merriman haters or too foolish to understand how steroids effect a person.

That's not something I approve of or condone, but he failed one test, and took full accountability for it.
a) As soon as you said 'hater', i stopped taking your post seriously.

b) No he didn't. He made up excuses. That's not taking "full accountability".
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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a) As soon as you said 'hater', i stopped taking your post seriously.

b) No he didn't. He made up excuses. That's not taking "full accountability".
A) I say hater for lack of a better word, and yeah to be honest that's proabably the first time I used that word in my life, so wow sorry. When you disregard an entire post based one word, I stop taking you seriously.

B) He said there was still a lot to be seen--which there was--and dropped his appeal of the suspension. He served his time, and apologized. That's full accountability.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm much more concerned with guys that drive drunk or beat their wives than I am with who takes steroids. Both are serious issues, but the former is more destructive to society and other people.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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I'm much more concerned with guys that drive drunk or beat their wives than I am with who takes steroids. Both are serious issues, but the former is more destructive to society and other people.

Actually a very good point well made.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't doubt that there is rampant use of illegal substances across many of these major sports. Even with all the work that these people do, humans aren't supposed to get that big. Physiologically, it's not supposed to happen. There are photos from last year's combine. Mario Williams and Bunkley and a lot of other guys are ripped to a point that is superhuman. While they are working out all the time, no one should be able to look that huge.

It pains me to say it, but I have a feeling that Brian Dawkins is on some sort of steroids. He had a huge drop-off in 2005, then the last 2 seasons, he has busted out tremendously and returned to his pro-bowl form. He made a flying tackle against the Giants this year where he jumped 7-8 feet headfirst and crushed some guy. This is at age 33. While Dawk was always a bit of a freak, it doesn't make sense...
Ignorance is bliss. The fact of the matter is; it's easier to disregard 'it,' because unlike Baseball, there is no tangible evidence that steroids are impacting the game. Other than player size, speed, ratio. Whereas in Baseball, records were being annihilated. To the point that it became impossible to not recognize what was going on.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Ive got a question, what steriod did merriman get caught with, cause as i recall it just triggered the "steriod/illegal substance" catagory, i dont ever remember hearing it was straight steriods

i belive he took a substance that had an illeagal fat burner in it. It wasn't steriods, but it undoubtedly helped his performance.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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I'm much more concerned with guys that drive drunk or beat their wives than I am with who takes steroids. Both are serious issues, but the former is more destructive to society and other people.
What if a steroids user becomes an evil incredible hulk?

Boy will your face be red.
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Old 03-20-2007, 04:35 PM    (permalink
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My rugby coach uses hGH and he used to buy his from eBay, haha. I know about 3 people who use steroids and about a dozen who use hGH and then a few more that used to. My friend's uncle played D-I college ball in the 70s and said that entire teams were loaded on steroids and I am going to assume that a few of them went on to play in the NFL and continued using those banned substances. I really don't care because it is obvious that the best player of all time, Brian Moorman isn't using anything other than a healthy diet of goat.
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Old 03-20-2007, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Exactly saying stuff like "I'm sure osi, peppers and Ware use them" is down right foolish and thats what the problem with people like Merriman is.

He can't achieve the heights those around him are, so he cheats, he uses steroids. Then when he's called on it, and he's caught people say "big deal I'm sure these guys are" He's tarnishing the sport and other players.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:00 PM    (permalink
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Exactly saying stuff like "I'm sure osi, peppers and Ware use them" is down right foolish and thats what the problem with people like Merriman is.

He can't achieve the heights those around him are, so he cheats, he uses steroids. Then when he's called on it, and he's caught people say "big deal I'm sure these guys are" He's tarnishing the sport and other players.
The thing is...do you honestly think that Merriman is the only one using illegal substances? Let's not be so naive to point the finger and raise our nose and say that no one on our team is doing it. Because chances are, there is someone on our respective teams doing it. And probably not just some joe shmo, but a high profile player at that.

Jansen publicly said that he thinks 40 % of the LEAGUE is on HGH. That means a little less than half of each of our teams are using illegal substances.

Is it that farfetched to believe him? We gave Consaco the cold shoulder, we gave Oakley the cold shoulder when he said 70% of the NBA does weed, but we believe them after the fact. Could Jansen be the next in line?

We just seen evidence of the Steeler's physician buy a boatload of steroids and HGH from that pharmacy that got raided. Who do you think was using it? It doesn't take a genius to do the math.

Its absolutely wrong, and it is a problem. Theres no debating that. Im not saying that its ok. What Im saying is, its not just a Shawne Merriman problem, its not just a San Diego problem, its a LEAGUE problem. Just because Merriman was the only idiot to get caught, doesn't mean he's the only one. Im not gonna sit here and destroy Merriman knowing full well that theres a good chance that some guys on my own team are using performance enhancing drugs themselves. It would be hypocritical of me.

I can condone it, I can view him as less of a talent because he did in fact get caught whereas others haven't, but Im not gonna assume that the rest of the league is clean and Merriman is the only dirty player out there.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:30 PM    (permalink
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i'm surprised by how many people seem to be ready to turn the other cheek to steroids use. as much as i hate merriman for being a charger, he's a proven steroids user. none of the other guys listed have tested positive for it. if we're talking about steroids alone (the banned ones), that's seriously damning. if we want to shift the argument and talk solely about HGH, that's a COMPLETELY different argument. further, it seems odd to me that people would simply not care. would it take a 300 lb running back who's running a 4.2 shattering every running record to make this worth discussing? how about when your son goes out for the high school team and has to start taking various "supplements" just to stay competitive with other 16 year olds?

i just don't see how this stuff can't be a big deal.
I know i may sound like im trying to turn the other cheek to the steroid argument, but I'm not. Obviosuly it's a huge problem in the league, but it doesn't stem from just Merriman. It doesn't make it okay or justifiable for him to do it, just because he is the only not guilty one, but he doesn't deserve to be the poster-boy for steroids when a good amount of other players are using them. How much have we heard about Hollis Thomas getting suspended for steroids this year? The Saints were a NFC championship team but little is made of Hollis Thomas' abuse because he isn't the same caliber player Merriman is. It's an issue that the NFL has to address, but with all its players, not just Merriman, who's been clean both before and since the incident occurred.
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Old 03-20-2007, 06:32 PM    (permalink
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Exactly saying stuff like "I'm sure osi, peppers and Ware use them" is down right foolish and thats what the problem with people like Merriman is.

He can't achieve the heights those around him are, so he cheats, he uses steroids. Then when he's called on it, and he's caught people say "big deal I'm sure these guys are" He's tarnishing the sport and other players.
1.Maybe he can't achieve the heights around him because other athlete's use steriods/HGH too...

2. When he's called on it and he's caught, like you say, other people say "big deal i'm sure these guys are". He doesn't. He embarassed himself by failing the steroid test, but he's only tarnishing himself, he's not the one casting blame on the other players, some of which are guilty of the same things he is.
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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Fact is, there's a distinct possibility that they're using HGH or steroids. There's also a possibility that they're aliens, or they like to rape old women. Its not what you can speculate. Its what you can prove. Until you can prove, peppers, osi or anyone else uses steroids don't tarnish their name.

They're good players and in the case of Peppers and Urlacher, very good, humble people. Don't drag their name through the mud because you've got a farfetched idea just because someone in the league does something.

Find proof, then rip them down.
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Old 03-20-2007, 07:55 PM    (permalink
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Fact is, there's a distinct possibility that they're using HGH or steroids. There's also a possibility that they're aliens, or they like to rape old women. Its not what you can speculate. Its what you can prove. Until you can prove, peppers, osi or anyone else uses steroids don't tarnish their name.

They're good players and in the case of Peppers and Urlacher, very good, humble people. Don't drag their name through the mud because you've got a farfetched idea just because someone in the league does something.

Find proof, then rip them down.

Cmon, your gonna say theres no difference between speculating that NFL players use steroids, and specualting they are alines who rape women? Nobody has proved that Barry Bonds uses steroids, does that mean he doesn't? I don't think he was specifically calling out those players, he was giving examples of high profile players who for all we know could be under the influence of such drugs. That's not an accusation of those players, it's a suggestion that those caliber players may be that good because of illegal help.

EDIT: BTW, i forgot to mention this, but Peppers DID fail a steroid test in 2002, and had to serve a 4-game suspension for it. There's proof.

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Old 03-20-2007, 08:30 PM    (permalink
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I know i may sound like im trying to turn the other cheek to the steroid argument, but I'm not. Obviosuly it's a huge problem in the league, but it doesn't stem from just Merriman. It doesn't make it okay or justifiable for him to do it, just because he is the only not guilty one, but he doesn't deserve to be the poster-boy for steroids when a good amount of other players are using them. How much have we heard about Hollis Thomas getting suspended for steroids this year? The Saints were a NFC championship team but little is made of Hollis Thomas' abuse because he isn't the same caliber player Merriman is. It's an issue that the NFL has to address, but with all its players, not just Merriman, who's been clean both before and since the incident occurred.
Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.

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EDIT: BTW, i forgot to mention this, but Peppers DID fail a steroid test in 2002, and had to serve a 4-game suspension for it. There's proof.
Peppers tested positive for ephedra, which is an illegal weight loss supplement.

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Old 03-20-2007, 08:44 PM    (permalink
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Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.



Peppers tested positive for ephedra, which is an illegal weight loss supplement.
I would not pass a steroid test.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.



Peppers tested positive for ephedra, which is an illegal weight loss supplement.
And Merriman tested positive for Nandralone, something that can be naturally produced by your body when too much creatine is taken. Excuses can be made for everyone, Peppers was taking a banned substance as was Hollis Thomas, whether for good reasons or not, they too violated the league substance abuse policy.
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Old 03-20-2007, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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I would not pass a steroid test.
You'd tear my ass up if we every played against each other. So I wouldn't be surprised, lol. Besides, Beast has those mutant genes that will alter your urine sample.
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Old 03-21-2007, 02:52 AM    (permalink
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Fact is, there's a distinct possibility that they're using HGH or steroids. There's also a possibility that they're aliens, or they like to rape old women. Its not what you can speculate. Its what you can prove. Until you can prove, peppers, osi or anyone else uses steroids don't tarnish their name.

They're good players and in the case of Peppers and Urlacher, very good, humble people. Don't drag their name through the mud because you've got a farfetched idea just because someone in the league does something.

Find proof, then rip them down.
The proof is there, for all to see. While not a failed test, logic is all that is needed to suspect them of use. In the steroid culture, that society is in right now, any freak athlete is presumed guilty. Barry Bonds hasn't technically failed a test either. In fact; Football players are even bigger, stronger, faster, than Baseball players. The only difference is, the scrutiny in Baseball, hasn't made it to the NFL yet. It will eventually.

The measure ables in this era defy reason. To assume these people, (a fact that is all too forgotten), get to be this big, strong, fast, explosive, naturally, is ignorant. Not an insult, more so, unintentionally ignorant. We all want to believe what we are seeing is legit, to a fault. Our judgment is impaired. This past decade has seen the proliferation in these supermen. All the while, the average, unsuspecting person, is ignorant. Football, right now, is where Baseball was during the '90s. Where popularity is so high, no one cares that these people are obviously unnaturally strong, and fast.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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The measure ables in this era defy reason.
Not really. With around 1700 players that are active in the NFL, even if you say all of these players are from *only* America, you still have 298,444,215 people to choose from. Let's cut that in half, since only Men play football. 149 222 108. Then, let's take 1/4 of that, since that's about how may people play football. 37 305 526. Now, that means about .00004% of people that play football are "freak" athletes. That isn't even close to being a number too high to believe. That's about 4 out of every 100 000 people being a freakishly good athletic specimen (once again, assuming that only Americans can play football... and that's also assuming every person in the NFL is a freakishly athletic specimen, which is also quite untrue. However, that will balance it out for the "freakishly athletic" players in other sports).

Now, I am not denying that a hell of a lot of NFL players are doing steroids, but the law averages state that someone like a Julius Peppers could be, and probably would be, naturally born.
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Old 03-21-2007, 12:56 PM    (permalink
Shiver
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See, I don't buy that. Considering the size:speed ratio, contrasted to even twenty years ago. It is such a large gap, that is just too convenient, especially when all evidence is there to suggest that steroids have been proliferating in that same twenty year time-span.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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See, I don't buy that. Considering the size:speed ratio, contrasted to even twenty years ago. It is such a large gap, that is just too convenient, especially when all evidence is there to suggest that steroids have been proliferating in that same twenty year time-span.
Once again, I'm not saying that a lot of players don't use steroids, and that steroids haven't made a lot of players into that "upper level." But, I still say that you are going to have freakish athletes naturally born. Just like you have children born with no skin or three arms... crazy **** happens.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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I understand that. It's just, back twenty years ago, the freak athletes wouldn't even generate buzz now.
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Old 03-21-2007, 01:05 PM    (permalink
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Hollis Thomas tested positive because he has severe asthma, and albuterol (the substance in asthma inhalers) is a steroid.
There's basically a big scandal involved in these so-called "asthma inhalers" when used by professional athletes. There's a very distinct possibility that Hollis Thomas does not have asthma and is just using it as a front to use these performance-enhancers. It is commonplace in other sports (such as running) where more than half the sport is reporting that they have asthma. Something is obviously up.
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