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Old 10-26-2010, 11:42 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Default The New England Patriots

Are the quietest 5-1 in the league. I kind of feel like we're automatically dismissing this team as a legitimate SB contender.

My question is why?

I understand the Jets are the better team right now (they are, let's admit it), and I understand the Pats don't have the glitz and glamour of the Ravens or Steelers, but 5-1 is 5-1, especially considering that they beat quality opponents.

Offensively, they have some work to do, but I love their TE duo, I love Tate's potential, Branch is decent, Welker is a booger who will find ways to get open, and I love love love the ever so underrated Danny Woodhead.

Defensively, their young CBs will only improve or at least stay the same with time. Their secondary as a whole is pretty talented. Cunningham is providing that much needed edge rush. Their dline is pretty decent, and they have a great ILB duo.

This team has talent. And you can't ignore Tom Brady. Sure, it hasn't been pretty, but are we overlooking the New England Patriots?

If that defense can mature, if BB can get his head out of his ass and stop running so much zone when his team clearly plays better in man, I think this team can do some damage.
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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NO! shhhhhhhhhh, let us go unnoticed. But seriously we have a very tough schedule so time will tell. After this Vikings game we get the browns, but then Pittsburg and then followed by the Colts, with the Jets, GB, Chi, and Miami still left. We'll know how good this team is come December.
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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NO! shhhhhhhhhh, let us go unnoticed. But seriously we have a very tough schedule so time will tell. After this Vikings game we get the browns, but then Pittsburg and then followed by the Colts, with the Jets, GB, Chi, and Miami still left. We'll know how good this team is come December.
Sometimes I think tough schedules help a team that's trying to make a playoff run more than it hurts it. Bc if you're legit, you need to win tough games in the regular season.

Learning how to win close games, and learning how to win against tough opponents are 2 essentials I feel you need if you want to be a legit SB contender.

Or else you'll fold in the playoffs when the going gets tough.
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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Default

Agreed. I enjoy the non-Pats talk.
It's warranted though. We have some major flaws.
Our OLine (minus Vollmer and Connolly) is trash
We have no deep threat WR yet (B.Tate?!)
Our running game is too predictable
D.Butler (our game 1 starter at #2 CB is benched and our ST stud Arrington is starting for him now)
Cunningham is coming along nicely but we still don't get consistant pressure on the QB


So yea- our upcoming schedule is a ***** and it'll let us know how we stand as legitimate contenders
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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I agree, I'm just saying we had a couple good wins but a loss to the Jets that really sucks, and we have a good chance to tie it up assuming both teams keep winning. What sucks is Miami is our last game of the year because Goodell didnt want teams to rest its starters, so even if we go into the playoffs, thats a lot of tough football to be played before January. Basically I'm taking a wait and see approach to this team.
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Old 10-26-2010, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I feel like Bellichick has been outcoached on defense for the past 3-4 years and no one talks about it.

His magic has worn off. I disagree with some stuff he does on defense right now, especially considering his personnel. Run more man BB!
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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Yea, he thinks he's protecting our CBs by playing that soft ass zone that allows 1st down after 1st down. It's annoying
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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The past two games have made me want to jump off a bridge for much of the time, then be elated by the end.

We're really confusing this year. The offense has clearly taken a step back. With Moss gone, the middle of the field is extremely crowded. All our wide receivers are small and can't get vertical/open against man coverage. They do however, kill zone coverage because of their ability to find soft spots. Branch specifically, has this down to an art ala Troy Brown. We can't run the football consistently because we're not built to, but we're actually extremely reliant on the run working. That was the difference offensively in the Ravens game and the Chargers game.

What's amazing is how we're winning. For the most part, it's because of youth. Devin McCourty, Patrick Chung, Jermaine Cunningham, Dane Fletcher, Aaron Hernadez. Sebastian Vollmer, Rob Gronkowski, Brandon Deaderick, Brandon Spikes, Kyle Arrington....all first and second year players playing big time roles for us. The defensive young player in particular, have really stepped up. Jermaine Cunningham lit up Michael Oher a few weeks ago and is starting to put consistent pressure on opposing quarterbacks. Devin McCourty has shown that he's athletic, physical, and has decent ball skills. He's a weapon to use to contain and neutralize bigger receivers.

The schedule is pretty mixed down the way. We have some tough games and we also have some that should be layups. The last five games of the season are all very winnable, and could set up a playoff run. We'll have to see. We're defiantly, at the very least, an interesting team right now.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:04 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I hate that. Let your CBs ball. You have 2 guys who can play good man, Merriweather is good enough to cover TEs as is Chung. Let em play and be athletes out there.

He needs to use more blitzes and man coverages.

If you get beat you get beat. But give em a chance to be athletes.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I hate that. Let your CBs ball. You have 2 guys who can play good man, Merriweather is good enough to cover TEs as is Chung. Let em play and be athletes out there.

He needs to use more blitzes and man coverages.

If you get beat you get beat. But give em a chance to be athletes.
We're running more man than we have in recent years. McCourty has allowed us to do that and Arrington is not the most effective zone corner in the world, so he's been manned up on guys too. There's still a lot of zone, but that's because we have some major weak spots in the secondary. Darius Butler has been a disappointment for us. Every time someone goes deep on him, he gets good coverage then let's himself get tangled up with the receiver for a free PI.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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Remember when I was called crazy for saying the Patriots were a legit contender still even with their situation at corner?
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:09 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Bellichick has been outcoached on defense for the past 3-4 years and no one talks about it.

His magic has worn off. I disagree with some stuff he does on defense right now, especially considering his personnel. Run more man BB!
The departure of Crennel really hurted him. Remember when we used to say that BB was a great defensive mind that is able to shutdown Peyton Manning ? Well, not so much. Since Crennel left, the Colts are 5-1 versus New England while Crennel contain Colts O this season with the Chiefs and even in the last few years when he coached the Browns.

Plus, BB needs to stop theses going for it on 4th down. It didn't work in the Superbowl, it didn't work last year in Indianapolis and it nearly cost him the game last Sunday.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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We're running more man than we have in recent years. McCourty has allowed us to do that and Arrington is not the most effective zone corner in the world, so he's been manned up on guys too. There's still a lot of zone, but that's because we have some major weak spots in the secondary. Darius Butler has been a disappointment for us. Every time someone goes deep on him, he gets good coverage then let's himself get tangled up with the receiver for a free PI.
Yeah Ive noticed he is running more man, but not nearly as much as he should. I noticed this defense plays significantly better in man, yet he still runs a ton of zone.

I think he should make his defense a predominately man based defense. I know he loves disguises and odd coverages to confuse qbs, but this young defense isn't ready for that yet. Let them be athletes and let the production of the unit under a simpler man scheme speak for itself.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:13 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Ive noticed he is running more man, but not nearly as much as he should. I noticed this defense plays significantly better in man, yet he still runs a ton of zone.

I think he should make his defense a predominately man based defense. I know he loves disguises and odd coverages to confuse qbs, but this young defense isn't ready for that yet. Let them be athletes and let the production of the unit under a simpler man scheme speak for itself.
I agree about the man coverage thing. The only thing really holding us back from being a predominantly man team the lack of a guy to compliment McCourty. If Bodden was playing this year, it would be a lot different.

I think we're seeing a bit of both. This has been the trickiest BB defense in years in regards to disguised coverages and such. Dean Pees exit has lot to a lot more exotic thing along the defense line, blitz wise, and in coverage. The first half against the Bengals, Carson Palmer did not know what the hell was going on. That's the best example of it right now, but there's been other times too. We went with a one down linemen look last week for the first time in a few years. We've seen linebackers moving around and lining up on different sides of the ball, which was also something we didn't see with Pees. We've been far less vanilla lately, and that's a good thing
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen much of Butler this year, but I thought he had potential in man coverage from what I saw from him last year.

Is he just a total dud? Or is the zone concepts giving him a hard time?
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:18 PM    (permalink
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I cringe at the coaching advantage that New England has against us this week. Absolutely cringe. They should light us up.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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I haven't seen much of Butler this year, but I thought he had potential in man coverage from what I saw from him last year.

Is he just a total dud? Or is the zone concepts giving him a hard time?
It's his body control. I would actually say he looks better in zone than man coverage right now. When the ball is in the air, he panics and commits both HORRIBLE penalties as well as just straight up miss playing the ball and leading to big completions. He hasn't played at all the past few weeks and we've been a much better team because of it. Teams were specifically targeting him and got huge yards because of it.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Danny Woodhead is the man. I wish he got more looks. That little man just knows how to get it done.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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5-1 is really encouraging for a team that, under BB, has always shown improvement through December.

The oline has vulnerability, especially up the middle. Any playoff run will likely need some scheduling luck to be successful. Playing a nasty 3-4 front like the Ravens / Steelers / Chargers in the playoffs will be much more difficult than playing a 4 man front like those in the AFC South.

Homefield will be huge if NE is to make a run.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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How is Danny Woodhead under rated? he played like 3 games and people are already talking about him.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
Basileus777
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It's pretty interesting how Belichick is moving Wilfork around on the line week-to-week to negate the opponents preferred run attack point. They are playing him a ton at DE.
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Old 10-26-2010, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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I don't think people talk about them much because there's not much to say. Most people would agree they have a good chance to make the Super Bowl. Kind of like most years for the last decade.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:23 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Danny Woodhead is the man. I wish he got more looks. That little man just knows how to get it done.
He's been legit for us. Perfect runningback for our scheme. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some money from us and hang around for a long time.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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It's almost like they are a team in transition from when they went to the Superbowl with guys like Teddy, Harrison, Seymour, Vrable, Moss........I think they win while they're retooling because of Bellichick and Brady. Give them another draft with all those picks and they'll be even better in a year or two. Right now i dont think they are as good as Pittsburgh and a couple of others but can probably do damage with homefield advantage.
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Old 10-26-2010, 01:39 PM    (permalink
yourfavestoner
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I think the biggest thing is that they're actually winning on the road this year. That shows the young talent is stepping up in a big way.

They also took the three most NFL-ready players on the Gators roster in Spikes, Cunningham, and Hernandez. All three guys contributing in a huge way for them.

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