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Old 12-23-2010, 11:31 PM    (permalink
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Nice to see all the post-season talk in this thread!

I agree a lot with what has been said so far. I like the idea of a Parcells type football guy coming in as a consultant and possible GM, but I also don't want Parcells for a few reasons. Like many have said the Vikings are going to be a rebuilding team, but we become a bottom of the NFL team for sure if we have to put a 3-4 defensive transition on top of everything. I definitely want to see something different defensively next year. I too am sick of the Cover-2 scheme and would much rather see us utilize an attacking defense that blitzes and brings pressure. We have players like Allen, EJ, and Greenway who can get to the QB if they are in the right defense. I think Greenway especially has been showing a lot of promise when blitzing the QB, so I wouldn't mind a defense that turns him and EJ loose more than asking them to drop and cover all the time.

Offensively the new coach, because I just don't see anyway Frazier retains the HC job, needs to make a commitment to running the football. AP is the best RB in football and needs to be utilized in an offense where he is the center piece. The last few years he took a back seat to Favre and still had very good seasons. Imagine an offense where we actually run the ball on a consistent basis, not like a Chilly offense that may have an offensive series that goes incomplete pass x3 then punt most of the time. Also, I like what I have seen in Gerhart and think he definitely should have an expanded role in the run game. Maybe an offense similar to what Carolina had with DeAngelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart. The new coach also has to find a way to get Harvin more involved in the offense. I would love to see more of him lining up in the back field, motioning to and from the slot, and maybe even running some Wildcat type plays.

Free Agency wise we need to do our best to limit the damage. There is no way we can re-sign everyone, so we need to be smart about who we let walk. I think it is a foregone conclusion that Ray Edwards will be gone next year. I do like what I have seen from Everson Griffen and I think Robison can and should be re-signed to platoon at the RDE position with Griffen next year. Fat Pat probably retires with Favre, but we have some DT's who have played solidly in a rotation this year, so we probably go with Guion, Kennedy, and Fred Evans opposite Kevin Williams. I love his play the past few years, but we cannot afford to keep Leber. Erin Henderson may get the call or we could try to bring in a rookie in the draft. Greenway is the key to this free agency class, so all efforts must be made to retain his services. Sidney should be another one to re-sign, I think we all can agree that he adds a whole different dimension to the WR corp when he is healthy and in there. Maybe with his coming off injury we can try to get him to re-sign for a little less money, but he still is going to take some significant dough. The secondary is a complete mess and will have to be the focus of the draft. Although I agree with FuzzyGopher that the Vikes should look at getting Bethea from the Colts to come in at one spot. Winfield is solid, but aging and I wouldn't mind seeing him slide over to the other safety spot. If nothing else he can continue to play one CB position and slide in to cover the slot. Cedric is good, but we can't count on him to be healthy for sure, and I don't think we truly know what we have yet in Cook. Asher is decent as a nickel, but I don't like him as a starter. Unfortunately I think we are going to have to spend some high draft choices on one, if not two, positions in the secondary. Abdullah shows promise, but he is back-up material. Madieu needs to be cut...period.

In the draft I don't think we can afford to pass on a QB if one of the top ones is available. We just have too many holes right now and not enough draft choices, so I actually wouldn't mind seeing us trade down to get more picks if none of the QBs are there. I kinda want the Vikings to bring in a veteran stop-gap QB like Orton or Shaun Hill so we can develop a young QB for a year or two. We hopefully use our draft to address the QB, CB, S, and OL positions.

Overall, we are not going to be a team competing for division or conference championships any time soon.
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:22 AM    (permalink
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Perry Fewell seems like he'd be a good coach.
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Old 12-24-2010, 04:39 PM    (permalink
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So let's say Zygi brings in Parcells to be the GM of the Vikings. I would assume Parcells would want to bring in a somebody from his coaching tree to be HC. This coach would have to be someone familiar with his the systems he runs on offense and defense, and basically an extension/puppet of Parcells (i.e. Tony Sparano). My question is who is even out there from Parcells coaching tree that isn't a HC already? Are there some little known assistants (again like Sparano) from his days in Dallas who would be deserving of a HC position? Just wondering if anybody else knows.
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Old 12-25-2010, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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Great stuff here guys..

Looking ahead to next season for free agency:

QB Brett Favre UFA Good bye
WR Greg Lewis UFA Meh..
WR Sidney Rice UFA Please re sign
PK Ryan Longwell UFA would like back
DL Ray Edwards UFA Good bye
DL Brian Robison UFA would like back
DL Pat Williams UFA as long as we dont pay him a ton
LB Chad Greenway UFA if we dont re sign him, i will punt kittens.
LB Ben Leber UFA would like back

Here is a look at QB free agents next year:

QB John Beck
QB Tom Brady
QB Kellen Clemens
QB Kerry Collins
QB Brodie Croyle
QB Charlie Frye
QB Bruce Gradkowski
QB Brian Griese
QB Matt Hasselbeck
QB Shaun Hill
QB Kevin Kolb
QB Peyton Manning
QB Donovan McNabb
QB J.T. O'Sullivan
QB Chad Pennington
QB Sage Rosenfels
QB Troy Smith
QB Drew Stanton
QB Tyler Thigpen
QB Michael Vick
QB Billy Volek
QB Seneca Wallace


I think we can pretty much count on Vick, Manning and Brady not going anywhere. So what does that leave us? Not much to choose from. I really think with Stafford injury problems Hill and Stanton will get resigned. A lot of those guys are up there in years. I got real mixed feelings about McNabb and he also up there in years. I guess the best on that list(and I use that loosely) that would be a young talent to develop would be Smith and Kolb.

Lets look at the draft. I figure on us picking somewhere in the top ten. Order by current record. Likely to draft a QB out of 10 (0/10 no chance-10/10 very likely)

1. Carolina (2-13)
They have Clausen, but if Luck comes out no way they can pass him up. 10/10 if its Andrew Luck
2. Denver (3-11)
Depends on new coaching staff but Tebow is there to develop. We'll wait and see how he plays in these last 2 games. 5/10
3. Cincinnati (3-11)
Palmer looks like he is done, and Marvin Lewis with him. With the Bungles you never know whats going to happen on draft day. They should take a QB, but might not. 5/10
4. Arizona (4-10)
Derek Anderson 10/10
5. Detroit (4-10)
Matthew Stafford 0/10
6. Buffalo (4-10)
Im thinking Fitzpatrick has justified them passing on a single caller. But they still might go in that direction. 5/10
7. San Francisco (5-9)
Depends on new coaching staff. If by someway Singletary survives and has a job there next season. Im guessing he'll stick with Alex/Troy Smith but we'll just put this at 7/10
8. Dallas (5-9)
Romo 0/10
9. Washington (5-9)
If Shanahan finds a QB he likes here, its a yes for sure. But you never know about him. 7/10
10. Houston (5-9)
Schaub 0/10
11. Cleveland (5-9)
McCoy has played well for a rookie. 3/10
12. Minnesota (5-9)


So at least 2 teams are defiantly going to take QBs before the Vikings pick. And you figure that going to take Luck and then Mallet or Locker. We have no shoot at Luck. I dont like Mallet because he reminds a lot of Favre. He'll make great throws, then follow it up with really bad throws. Im still a big fan of Jake Locker. But I got a feeling he is going to be gone also by the time we pick. Cam Newton scares me as an NFL prospect. He reminds me to much of Daunte Culpepper.

So where do we go for our signal caller next season?
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Old 12-25-2010, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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So based on that list, you are saying we have our choice of Brady, Manning, Or vick? I like what I see. I think we gotta get Mallet or Locker if we are lucky, otherwise take a late rounder and someone like Hasselback or McNabb.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Great post GeneralZod! Here's my thoughts:

Free Agency: Agree with everything you put down, except I think Fat Pat retires and I don't think the Vikings will make much of an effort to re-sign Leber (which is a shame, he's a good player) as there are too many other guys to re-sign.

QB Free Agents: I honestly think there is a chance one of either Stanton or Hill will be available. Unless the Vikings can pry Orton away from Denver for a 4th round choice I say we go after one or the other. Both Hill and Stanton have played well enough that they will both deserve bigger contracts and I don't think there is anyway Detroit can justify paying to have 3 starting QB's on their roster. Please keep Troy Smith and McNabb far away from this team, I would rather have Thigpen back in purple if we can't get Orton or Stanton/Hill. The other thing I don't understand is the linking of Kevin Kolb to the Vikings via trade. If Chilly was still coach I would say this is a strong possibility, he loves any ex-Eagle player and Kolb would have fit into his system. However, we are going to have a new offensive system next year and Kolb is essentially the same as having a rookie QB back there.

Draft-wise I agree with your take.

1: Carolina will have a new HC who will not have any ties to Clausen, similar to the situation with Tebow, so I think the Panthers take a QB #1 (definitely if Luck comes out).

2: Denver also will have a new HC, but I don't see them taking a QB for some reason. Whoever the new HC is won't have a terrible QB situation that needs addressing right away. Orton has proven that he can be effective in multiple systems. Obviously he excelled in McDaniel's pass-happy approach, but he was pretty effective in a more conservative, run-first offense in Chicago. Tebow is an intriguing prospect who the new coach may want to try an mold into a franchise QB.

3: Cincinnati is yet another team that will most likely have a new HC. Unlike Denver I do see Cincinnati taking a QB. Palmer has been terrible since coming back from knee surgery, and they made a terrible mistake in not re-signing Fitzpatrick, so they don't have anyone behind Palmer. Depending upon who the HC is I could see Mallett here or I wouldn't be shocked if it was Cam Newton.

4: Arizona won't necessarily have a new HC, I think Whisenhunt gets at least 1 more year, but they desperately need a fresh start at QB. I would say Mallett could be the choice. I think Whisenhunt would go with Mallett if he was available, as I think Mallett has a similar skill-set to Big-Ben, whom he coached in Pittsburgh.

5: Detroit won't take a QB

6: Buffalo won't take a QB, they owe Fitzpatrick at least another year to prove he is the guy.

7: San Francisco is where it gets tricky for the Vikes. With 3 out of the top 4 QB's likely gone it all hinges on who the HC is for the 49ers. I agree with your take, GeneralZod, that if Singletary is still there he will likely continue to go with Alex Smith/Troy Smith (and continue to finish sub .500). However, if a new HC is brought in they might want to bring in their own QB to develop. I'm going to say Singletary earns 1 more year to prove he can turn this team around and doesn't go for a QB, even though he should.

8: Dallas won't take a QB.

9. Washington is another tricky team. Shanahan has been searching for the next John Elway for a while now, but I just don't see him taking a QB in the draft. I think he will likely go with Sexy Rexy next year as the only QB who really would be the Elway-like QB Shanahan would covet is Andrew Luck, and he will not be available at pick #9.

10: Houston won't take a QB.

11: Cleveland won't take a QB. Colt has been playing well enough to warrant a shot as the starting QB next year.

12: So here we are with the Viking's pick. In the scenario I have laid out 3 of the top 4 QB's are gone (Luck, Mallett, and Newton). Is this very likely? No. 1999 is the last draft where 3 QB's were taken within the first 4 selections. There is always a team that should take a QB who decides to pass and take a DE or something, which basically sinks their franchise into a deeper hole. So in this scenario Locker is available for the Vikings and I don't think we can afford to pass on him. Honestly I don't think we can afford to pass on any of the top 4, despite how much I don't want to see Cam Newton on this team. I think he ends up being Vince Young version 2.0 in the pros. I would be happy with any of the other 3 QB's, but it is the NFL draft, so you never can tell what may happen.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:09 PM    (permalink
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Shaun Hill would be fine, but Stanton is not a starter. I would be intrigued by bringing in Gradkowski for a year though.
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Old 12-25-2010, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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^ Agree, Gradkowski is an interesting guy and could be a nice 1-2 year starter for us. I think Stanton can be a starter, but he would need to be in a similar system to what they run in Detroit. Honestly, I think Detroit re-signs him as he will be cheaper to re-sign than Shaun Hill. I like Shaun Hill and think he can be effective in multiple offensive systems (since we don't know exactly what the Vikings will be running next year). Plus he has played in a offense before where the RB was the main offensive threat (49ers). Brady, Manning, Vick, and Kolb are not going to be available (I don't see the Vikings in a position to give the Eagles the draft choice they will want for Kolb). I want nothing to do with McNabb, Hasselbeck, or Kerry Collins. I don't see how any of them can provide the Vikings any chance at being competitive while we hopefully develop a young QB. Pennington shouldn't even be an option on that list. I don't even think he has his throwing arm attached to his body anymore after all the injuries he has accumulated. None of the other names are starting material and would be a giant step-backward if we roll into the season with them as QB1.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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Gonna agree with vikes here, I would like to have Perry Fewell as our coach methinks...
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:02 PM    (permalink
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Not sure how I feel about this. Glazer is saying that Zygi is leaning towards keeping Frazier for next year.

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Old 12-26-2010, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Well that would suck
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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I don't like the decision, but I can see where it makes the most sense financially for Zygi. He is going to have to sink a lot of his money into a stadium effort and add that on top of the uncertainty next year with the CBA. I think bringing back Frazier is the cheapest option for him. Frazier likely retains some of the coaching staff, which lessens the amount of coaches Zygi has to pay. Monetarily this makes sense, but it sucks for the Vikings.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:17 AM    (permalink
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Fuuuuuuuuuuuuu. It was nice to see is not suck ass for once and actually handle a pretty good team, but now we will most likely be drafting around pick 15. There is pretty much no one I like that will be available at that spot. Hopefully the Senior Bowl and Combine will shoot some players up the boards and someone nice will fall to us. I think Locker would be a great pick at 15 but I think someone would take him earlier especially the Seahawks if they end up ahead of us.

I don't think we should take an offensive tackle in round 1 either. So that would leave us with someone like Janoris Jenkins, or a d-lineman like Clayborn or Bailey.

Hopefully some of the 5 loss teams lose and that will boost us up a few picks to around 11 or 12. Meh, I guess a lot can happen between now and the draft but I was really hoping to be in the 7 to 9 range to grab an elite player.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:41 AM    (permalink
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Frazier seems like a good guy. And we beat the Eagles on the road, for god's sake. It just sucks he's stuck with dumb, untalented players.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:59 AM    (permalink
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Thank You Vikings!
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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I dunno if he's the qb of the future or whatever, but if Vikings management still converts Joe Webb to wr, I'm going to laugh like crazy.

That kid is a qb.
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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Like I said on the game day thread, Webb looked better with 8 months of experience than Tarvaris Jackson has looked with 5 years. He showed good pocket presence while showing the ability to step up into the pocket or roll out to avoid the rush. He has a pretty damn good arm and is a dynamic runner. With all that said, I'm not sold on him being a starting quarterback anytime soon. His accuracy wasn't impressive at all, he lead his receivers into oncoming defenders and his ball placement didn't allow for his receivers to pick up yards after the catch. He missed a wide open Peterson (he didn't even see him) on what I think was a 3rd down play and I question his ability to see the whole field and go through his progressions. I do think we should keep him at quarterback and let him develop some more with a veteran and hopefully a high caliber rookie ahead of him on the depth chart. He showed a lot of promise, but it was just one game and against a team that looked lethargic and disinterested.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:58 PM    (permalink
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Yeah Webb can probably play QB in the league, I'm going to be pretty pissed if we go into 2011 with him as our starter but he can have a long career as a backup if last night was any indication and that wasn't just the Eagles mailing it in.
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Old 12-29-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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If Luck doesn't declare, it will obviously raise the value for Mallett, Newton and Locker. There will be very high demand for them at the top.
It could be best if the Vikings signed a free agent and make Webb earn the job. They still don't know how hard he will work in the offseason. Webb has the abilities to be a starting quarterback, but there are still too many unknowns to give him the starting job.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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If Luck doesn't declare, it will obviously raise the value for Mallett, Newton and Locker. There will be very high demand for them at the top.
It could be best if the Vikings signed a free agent and make Webb earn the job. They still don't know how hard he will work in the offseason. Webb has the abilities to be a starting quarterback, but there are still too many unknowns to give him the starting job.
I really don't think it does. If Luck comes out, he's going to the Panthers. If he doesn't, the Panthers probably don't take a QB. Nothing would change.
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Old 12-29-2010, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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I really don't think it does. If Luck comes out, he's going to the Panthers. If he doesn't, the Panthers probably don't take a QB. Nothing would change.
I pretty much agree with this. Mallett is no where near worthy of being the number 1 overall pick, in fact I don't think any of this years quarterbacks, aside from Luck if he declares, are worthy of it.
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Old 12-30-2010, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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I guess Brett Favre is going to start this week...Can't he just give it a damn rest and let the vikings evaluate Joe Webb?
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I guess Brett Favre is going to start this week...Can't he just give it a damn rest and let the vikings evaluate Joe Webb?

Nope, because Brett needs to satisfy his eg............err...........he owes it to his teammates that he loves and came back to play for!
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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I'd laugh my ass off if Favre lost it for the vikings.
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Old 12-30-2010, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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I guess Brett Favre is going to start this week...Can't he just give it a damn rest and let the vikings evaluate Joe Webb?
Frazier is an idiot if he actually lets Favre start. There is no reason for anyone other than Webb to be starting at this point.
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