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View Poll Results: Who's gonna be the best of these QB's when all is said and done?
Josh Freeman, Bucs 59 15.17%
Matthew Stafford, Lions 125 32.13%
Sam Bradford, Rams 76 19.54%
Mark Sanchez, Jets 19 4.88%
Joe Flacco, Ravens 32 8.23%
Matt Ryan, Falcons 78 20.05%
Voters: 389. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-29-2010, 02:48 PM    (permalink
armageddon
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I can't wait to see Bradford next year when the team (most likely) gets him some WRs.

Oh boy.


I LOOOOVE me some Sam Bradford.


A healthy Denario Alexander gives us a glimpse what Sam can do with a legitimate #1 wr. Denario is a real down field threat, something the Rams lack. Amendola, Robinson and Gibson are all decent #2 types, with Amendola being the slot guy. Amendola is very underatted. He is a Welker clone.
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Old 12-05-2010, 10:47 PM    (permalink
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1. Bradford
2. Sanchez
3. Stafford tie
3. Freeman tie
5. Flacco
6. Ryan
7. Henne
1.Bradford
2.Sanchez
3. Stafford tie
3. Freeman tie
4.Ryan
4.Colt

7.Flacco
7.henne
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Old 12-05-2010, 10:49 PM    (permalink
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1.Bradford
2.Sanchez
3. Stafford tie
3. Freeman tie
4.Ryan
4.Colt

7.Flacco
7.henne
Meh.

1. Matt Ryan
2. Josh Freeman
3. Sam Bradford
4. Joe Flacco
5. Mark Sanchez
6. Matt Stafford (would be higher, needs to stay healthy)
7. Colt McCoy
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:00 AM    (permalink
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biggest facepalm moment of NFL history with flacco tonight ehh.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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Flacco just can't seem to put it all together. In my mimd this list is a 3 man race. Ryan Bradford and Freeman. Flacco just is what he is, and Sanchez is more of a game manager than anything, and elevated by the fact that they literally surrounded him with a starting offense of former 1st round draft picks so that he'd make some progress. Say what you want but you shouldn't have to surround a guy with every highly drafted headache on the market to ensure his success. 80% of the Jets offense is screens and swings too...haven't been all that impressed honestly.
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Old 12-06-2010, 03:48 AM    (permalink
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Freeman has yet to beat a team over .500. He struggles big time against good defenses. (ie. two 50% completion games against the falcons)

His team has been competitive due to the emergence of Mike Williams and LeGarrette Blount.

Although he's shown a lot of progress at this point there's not much evidence you can use (other than his couple 4th quarter comebacks) that you can use to put him above Flacco, Sanchez, Bradford.

He has not had a 3+ td game or a 300+ yard game this year.

if anything HE'S the game manager of the bunch.

I am impressed by Tampa Bay becoming relevant again, though.
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:03 AM    (permalink
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If you'd watched many Tampa games you would realise his role is far from a game manager. Statistics do not reflect whether a player is a game manager necessarily.
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jake Locker View Post
Flacco just can't seem to put it all together. In my mimd this list is a 3 man race. Ryan Bradford and Freeman. Flacco just is what he is, and Sanchez is more of a game manager than anything, and elevated by the fact that they literally surrounded him with a starting offense of former 1st round draft picks so that he'd make some progress. Say what you want but you shouldn't have to surround a guy with every highly drafted headache on the market to ensure his success. 80% of the Jets offense is screens and swings too...haven't been all that impressed honestly.
You sir, have no idea what you are talking about and clearly have not watched the jets this year
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Freeman has yet to beat a team over .500. He struggles big time against good defenses. (ie. two 50% completion games against the falcons)

His team has been competitive due to the emergence of Mike Williams and LeGarrette Blount.

Although he's shown a lot of progress at this point there's not much evidence you can use (other than his couple 4th quarter comebacks) that you can use to put him above Flacco, Sanchez, Bradford.

He has not had a 3+ td game or a 300+ yard game this year.

if anything HE'S the game manager of the bunch.

I am impressed by Tampa Bay becoming relevant again, though.
If you look at box scores, sure.

Sorry, but Freeman's got an uncanny presence on the field. Like Roethlisberger, what he does doesn't always show up on the stat sheet, but they are an infinitely better team because of him.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:38 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of Roethlisberger, it's funny how most fans won't consider him a top 5 qb.

I guess they look at the stats and say "zomg only 12 touchdowns?!!!111"

Ben is a top 5 qb.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Speaking of Roethlisberger, it's funny how most fans won't consider him a top 5 qb.

I guess they look at the stats and say "zomg only 12 touchdowns?!!!111"

Ben is a top 5 qb.
Fantasy football has completely altered how quarterbacks are judged. Not only do you have to win, but you have to make it pretty so all the people who drafted you get those bonus points for you getting 300 yards.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Fantasy football has completely altered how quarterbacks are judged. Not only do you have to win, but you have to make it pretty so all the people who drafted you get those bonus points for you getting 300 yards.
Yup. I hear it all the time. Ben isn't top 5, but quarterbacks who perennially underachieve and/or choke in big moments are considered better bc they have better numbers.

What a joke.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Yup. I hear it all the time. Ben isn't top 5, but quarterbacks who perennially underachieve and/or choke in big moments are considered better bc they have better numbers.

What a joke.
Who would you put below big ben for a top 5? Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers are a solid top 5. Obviously they all have the numbers and some playoffs success. Does rodgers get bumped out for no playoff wins? Or Rivers for no rings?
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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Who would you put below big ben for a top 5? Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers are a solid top 5. Obviously they all have the numbers and some playoffs success. Does rodgers get bumped out for no playoff wins? Or Rivers for no rings?
I know it's heresy on this board, but I wouldn't have any qualms about having him in the top five above fantasy demi-gods Rodgers and Rivers.

I know, his defense is great. But look at that offensive talent in the SB year of 2008. Worst offensive line in the NFL? Check. A washed up Willie Parker at RB? Check. Santonio Holmes as your only legitimate weapon? Check.

How many NFL quarterbacks do you think lead that game winning drive and make that perfect game-winning throw in the corner of the endzone not once but twice (remember, Holmes dropped the first one)? Not very many.

Rodgers doesn't have a signature win yet in his career. Rivers has an abysmal playoff record and his numbers plummet back down to earth in the postseason (3-4 record, 79 QB rating). In 2007, the win against Indy and the fight against the Pats (with two busted knees, no Gates, and no LT) were both admirable performances, but I need to see more in the playoffs. As of now, it looks like he's destined to be Fouts all over again.

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Old 12-06-2010, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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Who would you put below big ben for a top 5? Manning, Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Rivers are a solid top 5. Obviously they all have the numbers and some playoffs success. Does rodgers get bumped out for no playoff wins? Or Rivers for no rings?
The top 4 are Manning, Brady, Brees and Ben.

5 through whatever is debatable. I tend to rate Rodgers and Rivers lower than most. Neither would make my top 5.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:44 AM    (permalink
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I know it's heresy on this board, but I wouldn't have any qualms about having him in the top five above fantasy demi-gods Rodgers and Rivers.

I know, his defense is great. But look at that offensive talent in the SB year of 2008. Worst offensive line in the NFL? Check. A washed up Willie Parker at RB? Check. Santonio Holmes as your only legitimate weapon? Check.

How many NFL quarterbacks do you think lead that game winning drive and make that perfect game-winning throw in the corner of the endzone not once but twice (remember, Holmes dropped the first one)? Not very many.

Rodgers doesn't have a signature win yet in his career. Rivers has an abysmal playoff records and his numbers plummet back down to earth in the postseason. That win against Indy and the fight against the Pats (with two busted knees, no Gates, and no LT) were both admirable performances, but I need to see more in the playoffs. As of now, it looks like he's destined to be Fouts all over again.
When I called him this generation's Dan Fouts, the board was ready to come at me with pitchforks and knives.

It's good to know I'm not the only one who feels that way about him.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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well... if you guys are saying you can't be judged based off of style points and stats but to look at signature wins...

why couldn't eli be argued to be as good as ben considering he has probably the best signature win of this decade?
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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well... if you guys are saying you can't be judged based off of style points and stats but to look at signature wins...

why couldn't eli be argued to be as good as ben considering he has probably the best signature win of this decade?
there is a reason this argument is coming from a giants fan
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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well... if you guys are saying you can't be judged based off of style points and stats but to look at signature wins...

why couldn't eli be argued to be as good as ben considering he has probably the best signature win of this decade?
Because outside of that one postseason, the Giants have been one-and-done every other time they've made the playoffs. And he's had pitiful performances in all of those games.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Because outside of that one postseason, the Giants have been one-and-done every other time they've made the playoffs. And he's had pitiful performances in all of those games.
This^

Eli needs another playoff run to get the kind of credit I give Ben. I was skeptical of Ben until he proved himself with that 2nd ring. If Eli wants the same credit, he needs to put together another run.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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The irony of calling Philip Rivers overrated because of fantasy stats is that, prior to this season, the Chargers didn't even throw the ball as much as most other teams. He just isn't going to get any credit until he wins a Super Bowl for the very reason Eli ran away from that organization. It's out in the middle of nowhere and isn't run by geniuses - when you fail, you're a choker. When you win, no one is paying attention.

He isn't as good as his stats because of the way that offense is set up and the schemes Norv runs. But, his stats are really freaking good. He isn't Peyton Manning. He might still be right under him. We will see. The Steelers missed the playoffs last year and no one got on Ben's case for that

As for Rodgers, I need to see more. Green Bay basically runs a spread and he hasn't done anything in the playoffs yet. Of course, he hasn't had a ton of opportunity. I saw Rivers in the playoffs on two torn ACLs. I know what I have there. I suspect what I have in Rodgers, but I need to see it. I did call him overrated do to fantasy prior to the season but I think people are piling on him too much now
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:53 PM    (permalink
soybean
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This^

Eli needs another playoff run to get the kind of credit I give Ben. I was skeptical of Ben until he proved himself with that 2nd ring. If Eli wants the same credit, he needs to put together another run.
in all fairness ben's first ring was won in spite of him not because of him.

he's not a bad qb by any stretch of the imagination, was just playing devil's advocate.
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Old 12-06-2010, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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in all fairness ben's first ring was won in spite of him not because of him.

he's not a bad qb by any stretch of the imagination, was just playing devil's advocate.
In the three playoff games leading up to the Superbowl he had 7 touchdowns, 1 interception and was completing almost 70% of his passes. They don't get there without that kind of play from him.

Also, you can add this to things that don't show up on the stat sheet, but definitely helps your team win games:

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Old 12-06-2010, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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The irony of calling Philip Rivers overrated because of fantasy stats is that, prior to this season, the Chargers didn't even throw the ball as much as most other teams. He just isn't going to get any credit until he wins a Super Bowl for the very reason Eli ran away from that organization. It's out in the middle of nowhere and isn't run by geniuses - when you fail, you're a choker. When you win, no one is paying attention.

He isn't as good as his stats because of the way that offense is set up and the schemes Norv runs. But, his stats are really freaking good. He isn't Peyton Manning. He might still be right under him. We will see. The Steelers missed the playoffs last year and no one got on Ben's case for that

As for Rodgers, I need to see more. Green Bay basically runs a spread and he hasn't done anything in the playoffs yet. Of course, he hasn't had a ton of opportunity. I saw Rivers in the playoffs on two torn ACLs. I know what I have there. I suspect what I have in Rodgers, but I need to see it. I did call him overrated do to fantasy prior to the season but I think people are piling on him too much now
Here's the bottom line with Phillip Rivers:

He's underachieved his whole career. For a good 3 year stretch, he had the most talented team in the league and he underachieved with them every time. Last year he should have went to the SB, and he underachieved.

This year he has the best offense and defense statistically, and while I understand STs are a big role in their record, Rivers is still underachieving with that team. They should be the division leader and they're not.

While his numbers are impressive, is it really that big of a deal? Peyton and Brees both have thrown for more yards, and Kyle Orton has thrown in the same ballpark with a similar situation: no run game and mediocre WRs.

So how much weight should we put into a ton of passing yards? Bc me personally, I don't put much weight into it at all. Whoopidy doo.

Rodgers needs to win a big game. Come through in the clutch. I haven't seen either from him.

The true test of Rivers will be the upcoming years. He's been given the luxury of sleep walking into the playoffs for the past 4 years with a terrible AFC West, but it seems like the Chiefs and Raiders are finally starting to make this division look competitive as early as next year.

So let's see if he can compete in a tough division. Ben has done it his whole career. Eli has done it his whole career. Hell, even Rodgers has done it.

Starting next year, the AFC West should be competitive. Now let's see if he can step his game up and perform in a tough division where the playoffs are no longer a formality.
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Old 12-06-2010, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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in all fairness ben's first ring was won in spite of him not because of him.

he's not a bad qb by any stretch of the imagination, was just playing devil's advocate.
To be fair, he had amazing games leading up to that SB. I agree that they won the SB in spite of him, but they don't get to the SB without Ben playing great in those games vs the Colts and Broncos.
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