Young Guns: Bradford, Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman, Flacco, Ryan

[Complex]

Originally Posted by TACKLE

Not trying to be a homer here but this made me laugh. Colt is easily one of the worst starting QB's in the league has literally no upside.

Flacco would play worst in Cleveland than McCoy.

[J-Mike88]

LOL @ anyone with Freeman still ahead of Newton.
I used to try and side with Freeman.
Until I watched him this year after listening to the Buc fans here who conned me into drafting the guy as my #2 QB this year.
He's killed me. That offense looks like the Browns offense.

[DeepThreat]

Originally Posted by Complex

Flacco would play worst in Cleveland than McCoy.

No, he wouldn't. Colt is unbelievably awful.

[Ngatachance92]

I'm holding on to Flacco like certain people did to Boller dammit, I refuse to give up on him as long as Cameron calls the shots.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

I'd go with:
1. Stafford
2. Freeman
3. Newton
4. Ryan
5. Gabbert
6. Flacco
7. Sanchez
8. Dalton
9. Bradford
10. Ponder
11. McCoy

You and Reality Check should hang out sometime.

[bucfan12]

When you look at Upside, in terms of mechanics, physical tools, and the mentality, Freeman has that advantage over all these QBs. He's struggling right now, but you just don't lose talent. A 25 TD to 6 INT season isn't a fluke. THat's elite numbers in his 2nd year.

I think as the WR core grows(all 4 of them are in there 2nd year in the NFL) and they get rid of that garbage they call an offensive coordinator, you'll see Freeman florish. He's got that clutch ability (8 4th qtr comebacks in 32 starts).

[bearsfan_51]

Here's my list. I break it down into four categories.

*Elite Talent*
1) Cam Newton (this one isn't even close. It's been mocked, but you really can't overstate how well Newton is playing this year)

2) Matthew Stafford (injuries are an obvious concern, and his rookie season was a giant turd, but Stafford seems to have turned a huge corner)

*Quality NFL starters*

3) Christian Ponder (very impressed so far. Dude is efficient, smart, and has poise)

4) Joe Flacco (don't really understand all of the criticism for Flacco. He has some bad games, but on the whole I'd take him over anyone left on the list, and I wouldn't have to think hard about it).

5) Andy Dalton (could pass Flacco. Such a great bunch of rookie QBs)

6) Matt Ryan (he seems to be getting worse every year, which is weird to say the least)

*not yet sold on their ability to start in the NFL*

7) Josh Freeman (no idea what's happening now. I wonder if he's simply lacking something between the ears. Kansas State isn't known for producing Rhodes Scholars)

8) Mark Sanchez (mediocre to the absolute core, but he's probably having his best season)

9) Sam Bradford (the more you study his rookie season the more overrated it was. Bradford makes way too many stupid mistakes)

*not worth a starting spot in the NFL*

10) Blaine Gabbert (the Jaguars are obviously going to stick with him, but there's nothing I've seen so far that I like about Gabbert)

11) Colt McCoy (career backup)

[Breed]

1. Newton
2. Stafford
3. Freeman
4. Matt Ryan
5. Ponder
6.Flacco
7.Dalton
8.Bradfird
10. McCoy
11. Gabbert

[soybean]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Here's my list. I break it down into four categories.

*Elite Talent*
1) Cam Newton (this one isn't even close. It's been mocked, but you really can't overstate how well Newton is playing this year)

2) Matthew Stafford (injuries are an obvious concern, and his rookie season was a giant turd, but Stafford seems to have turned a huge corner)

*Quality NFL starters*

3) Christian Ponder (very impressed so far. Dude is efficient, smart, and has poise)

4) Joe Flacco (don't really understand all of the criticism for Flacco. He has some bad games, but on the whole I'd take him over anyone left on the list, and I wouldn't have to think hard about it).

5) Andy Dalton (could pass Flacco. Such a great bunch of rookie QBs)

I can buy that... expect the flacco part. No question the dude is extremely talented. He just lacks some skills.

The ravens look to be a qb away from competing for a SB.

His numbers are low across the board even though he has nice receiving weapons, a stellar line, a pro-bowl rb.

he's 31st (out of 33 teams) in completion percentage, 20th in tds and 27th in qb rating.

no doubt he has probably some of the best tools out of all these guys but he just cant seem to put it all together.

[Ngatachance92]

Originally Posted by soybean

I can buy that... expect the flacco part. No question the dude is extremely talented. He just lacks some skills.

The ravens look to be a qb away from competing for a SB.

His numbers are low across the board even though he has nice receiving weapons, a stellar line, a pro-bowl rb.

he's 31st (out of 33 teams) in completion percentage, 20th in tds and 27th in qb rating.

no doubt he has probably some of the best tools out of all these guys but he just cant seem to put it all together.

Being a Ravens fan I've seen just about every snap hes ever taken from center and while Joe does do bone head things at times there are many other factors at play here. If you watched the Jaguars game you may have noticed how long it took for Joe to get the plays off in the two minute drill, that's because a lot of the time he had to look to the sidelines for the play to come in instead of going no huddle, now is it because he can't do it himself or is it because our OC doesn't trust him? I don't have an answer for that but I'm leaning towards the latter. Our line is great at run blocking, not so much at pass protection, he's not a Roethisberger he needs his line to hold up or else hes toast.

You mentioned how many weapons we have, Ray Rice isn't used correctly he needs more touches both on the ground and through the air. Boldin hardly ever is used in the slot which is where he belongs, we've been sending him deep A LOT, and he's no burner. Torrey Smith, Rookie. Laquan Williams, undrafted rookie, Ed Dickson's first year starting, Pitta finally getting his feet wet.

Last game 1st half stunk up the joint, second half went to the Shotgun no huddle offense and we got it done. Flacco's not perfect but hes not as bad as people make him out to be, I need to see what he does with a new OC before I give him a final verdict.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by soybean

I can buy that... expect the flacco part. No question the dude is extremely talented. He just lacks some skills.

The ravens look to be a qb away from competing for a SB.

His numbers are low across the board even though he has nice receiving weapons, a stellar line, a pro-bowl rb.

he's 31st (out of 33 teams) in completion percentage, 20th in tds and 27th in qb rating.

no doubt he has probably some of the best tools out of all these guys but he just cant seem to put it all together.

He has a career completion % of 60.7 and a career rating of 86.0

This season is an anomaly; it's not a fair evaluation.

[Job Reborn]

Originally Posted by soybean

I can buy that... expect the flacco part. No question the dude is extremely talented. He just lacks some skills.

The ravens look to be a qb away from competing for a SB.

His numbers are low across the board even though he has nice receiving weapons, a stellar line, a pro-bowl rb.

he's 31st (out of 33 teams) in completion percentage, 20th in tds and 27th in qb rating.

no doubt he has probably some of the best tools out of all these guys but he just cant seem to put it all together.

When was there an expansion I'm unaware of?

[Ngatachance92]

Also everyone can stop with the whole Joe Flacco is overrated ********, this season he's been attacked by the media and his own ******* fan base for our offensive struggles, but he'll bounce back.

[irishbucsfan]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Here's my list. I break it down into four categories.

*Elite Talent*
1) Cam Newton (this one isn't even close. It's been mocked, but you really can't overstate how well Newton is playing this year)

2) Matthew Stafford (injuries are an obvious concern, and his rookie season was a giant turd, but Stafford seems to have turned a huge corner)

*Quality NFL starters*

3) Christian Ponder (very impressed so far. Dude is efficient, smart, and has poise)

4) Joe Flacco (don't really understand all of the criticism for Flacco. He has some bad games, but on the whole I'd take him over anyone left on the list, and I wouldn't have to think hard about it).

5) Andy Dalton (could pass Flacco. Such a great bunch of rookie QBs)

6) Matt Ryan (he seems to be getting worse every year, which is weird to say the least)

*not yet sold on their ability to start in the NFL*

7) Josh Freeman (no idea what's happening now. I wonder if he's simply lacking something between the ears. Kansas State isn't known for producing Rhodes Scholars)

8) Mark Sanchez (mediocre to the absolute core, but he's probably having his best season)

9) Sam Bradford (the more you study his rookie season the more overrated it was. Bradford makes way too many stupid mistakes)

*not worth a starting spot in the NFL*

10) Blaine Gabbert (the Jaguars are obviously going to stick with him, but there's nothing I've seen so far that I like about Gabbert)

11) Colt McCoy (career backup)

The fact that Freeman has regressed this year absolutely ridicules your idea that Ponder and Dalton are already quality starters. Let either of them post a 25:6 TD:INT ratio and then follow it up with a better year than Freeman's having before you act like they've proven they're better quality.

[Bulldogs]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

The fact that Freeman has regressed this year absolutely ridicules your idea that Ponder and Dalton are already quality starters. Let either of them post a 25:6 TD:INT ratio and then follow it up with a better year than Freeman's having before you act like they've proven they're better quality.

For once I agree with a Bucs fan.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

The fact that Freeman has regressed this year absolutely ridicules your idea that Ponder and Dalton are already quality starters. Let either of them post a 25:6 TD:INT ratio and then follow it up with a better year than Freeman's having before you act like they've proven they're better quality.

Not only that. Yes. Freeman has regressed. But if you look at the upside and talent level, physically and mentally, Freeman's top 3 on this list of "Young Guns". People also fail to see the lack of experience he has around him and barely a deep running game as well. Blount is one dimmensional and Olsen is garbage at developing an offensive gameplan.

And to say Ponder and Dalton are quality starters already, after what two starts for Ponder and Dalton has a half a season under his belt? Neither have the intangibles Freeman has, even if you hate the Bucs.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

The fact that Freeman has regressed this year absolutely ridicules your idea that Ponder and Dalton are already quality starters. Let either of them post a 25:6 TD:INT ratio and then follow it up with a better year than Freeman's having before you act like they've proven they're better quality.

Why? This is a predictive thread. Obviously.

Don't get butt-hurt just because Freeman has regressed. It's not their fault. Some people regress, some people don't. It's just as absurd to operate under the assumption that Ponder and Dalton will regress because Freeman did.

[A Perfect Score]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Why? This is a predictive thread. Obviously.

Don't get butt-hurt just because Freeman has regressed. It's not their fault. Some people regress, some people don't. It's just as absurd to operate under the assumption that Ponder and Dalton will regress because Freeman did.

And boom goes the dynamite. I am feeling the Ponder > Freeman love.

[bucfan12]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Why? This is a predictive thread. Obviously.

Don't get butt-hurt just because Freeman has regressed. It's not their fault. Some people regress, some people don't. It's just as absurd to operate under the assumption that Ponder and Dalton will regress because Freeman did.

It's also absurd to place a guy who had an elite season last year and is struggling now to two rookies who haven't done much, especially Ponder.

Phillip Rivers is considered a top 5 QB and is struggling right now with 12 int's. Drew Brees has 10 or 11. They're still considered elite.

Freeman has less around him than those 2, is 23 years old, and gets pegged as a bust?

[irishbucsfan]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Why? This is a predictive thread. Obviously.

Don't get butt-hurt just because Freeman has regressed. It's not their fault. Some people regress, some people don't. It's just as absurd to operate under the assumption that Ponder and Dalton will regress because Freeman did.

Hah, where did I say they'd regress? I said if Freeman can regress from the great form he showed last year, then Dalton and Ponder certainly aren't immune to it. Adding in the fact that they haven't even hit the level Freeman has already shown himself capable of, I think it's crazy to say they're quality NFL starters but the jury's out on F5.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

Hah, where did I say they'd regress? I said if Freeman can regress from the great form he showed last year, then Dalton and Ponder certainly aren't immune to it. Adding in the fact that they haven't even hit the level Freeman has already shown himself capable of, I think it's crazy to say they're quality NFL starters but the jury's out on F5.

Of course they aren't immune from it. Nobody is immune from it.

But if I were drafting QBs today, I would choose Ponder or Dalton over Freeman, because while I haven't maybe seen the highs from them I have from Freeman, I haven't seen nearly the lows either. And that's enough for me.

Is there a possibility I will be wrong? Of course there is. If there wasn't, there's no point of having this thread.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Freeman has less around him than those 2, is 23 years old, and gets pegged as a bust?

No, he gets pegged as a question mark (I created four categories). He might fix himself, but if he doesn't, he won't be a starter in the NFL for much longer.

[LonghornsLegend]

I never used to like to lump fans all into one but in the past 2 years Bucs homers have been the most annoying part of this website.

[irishbucsfan]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Of course they aren't immune from it. Nobody is immune from it.

But if I were drafting QBs today, I would choose Ponder or Dalton over Freeman, because while I haven't maybe seen the highs from them I have from Freeman, I haven't seen nearly the lows either. And that's enough for me.

Is there a possibility I will be wrong? Of course there is. If there wasn't, there's no point of having this thread.

The whole point of the thread, and the site, and projecting in general, is to project intelligently, not just project and say 'well of course i could be wrong'. You're saying you haven't seen the lows of Freeman from them - but I think body of evidence size is a factor you need to consider.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by irishbucsfan

The whole point of the thread, and the site, and projecting in general, is to project intelligently, not just project and say 'well of course i could be wrong'. You're saying you haven't seen the lows of Freeman from them - but I think body of evidence size is a factor you need to consider.

I'm quite confident in my ability to project intelligently, you condescending prick.

From what we've seen so far from Ponder and Dalton, they're performed better than what we've collectively seen from Freeman. Freeman (who I actually voted for in this thread whenever it was started, so I'm certainly not anti-Freeman) has a career completion % below 60, he throws an interception every 30 attempts, he averages 6.8 yards per attempt, and he has a passer rating of 79.8

Ponder and Dalton, from the limited samples we've seen so far, exceed that. Maybe they regress, but consider they are rookies, it's far more likely they don't.

You talk about this season as if it's an anomaly, but last year could just as likely be an anomaly considering Freeman wasn't very good his rookie season either.