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Old 03-20-2007, 12:26 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Stunting the growth of a second year player by benching him after an acceptable rookie campaign is really not a good idea. That's something the Redskins would do. The Bears are a better run organization, and I would expect them to keep Manning in the starting lineup. If Arch comes over, I would foresee Brown becoming a reserve or being released or traded.
The thing is, Manning was a CB in college, and I honestly thought that CB was his better position coming into the NFL. I think he can make the transition rather easily. Plus his versatility and teaching him how to play both positions can be beneficial in the long haul because it provides more versatility in the back 4 during times of injury.

It can work, he can play both positions. Having a rotation back there is probably ideal. Especially with the possibility of losing one of their underrated CBs, it won't be a bad idea seeing what Manning is made of at the CB position.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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Technically thats Tampa 2. I use both terms loosely myself and often say Cover 2 in reference to Tampa 2.

The thing with Arch is, if he does go to Chicago, that puts added pressure on Manning to hold the fort at FS, something he had a little trouble with at the end of the season.
No I meant cover 2. We only use the cover 2 about 20% of the time. We're often in some sort of hybrid or variable coverage that requires more man coverage from the corners with the linebackers (especially Brian) playing deep.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:28 PM    (permalink
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Stunting the growth of a second year player by benching him after an acceptable rookie campaign is really not a good idea. That's something the Redskins would do. The Bears are a better run organization, and I would expect them to keep Manning in the starting lineup. If Arch comes over, I would foresee Brown becoming a reserve or being released or traded.
Woah woah woah WOAH!!

Mike Brown will never be a backup on the Bears. Ever. And this is coming from someone that thinks he's slightly overated. He's still leaps and bounds better at SS than Arch would be. He just needs to stay healthy.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Well, the Bears benched Chris Harris, the guy Manning replaced, after a solid rookie year. So it is something the Bears could do.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Woah woah woah WOAH!!

Mike Brown will never be a backup on the Bears. Ever. And this is coming from someone that thinks he's slightly overated. He's still leaps and bounds better at SS than Arch would be. He just needs to stay healthy.
If Brown will never be benched, and dropping Manning out of the FS slot is not an option, why are they willing to take on Archuletta's large contract for him to play a part time role with the team? Signing him after he's cut is one thing. Trading for him to get that horrid contract is completely different. Could you explain that to me?
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Well, the Bears benched Chris Harris, the guy Manning replaced, after a solid rookie year. So it is something the Bears could do.
They could, and it wouldn't suprise me. But you have to remember that Chris Harris was a 6th round pick, Manning was a high 2nd round pick. I think that with Angelo's ego being what it is, and Lovie's preference for starting rookies, that they would find a way to keep Manning in the starting lineup.

That being said, if he continues to struggle I think a move to cornerback is inevitable, and probably for the best for all parties involved. It's not as crazy as some may think, I just think Arch needs to prove himself a little more before we start slotting him in the starting lineup of one of the best defenses in the league.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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If Brown will never be benched, and dropping Manning out of the FS slot is not an option, why are they willing to take on Archuletta's large contract for him to play a part time role with the team? Signing him after he's cut is one thing. Trading for him to get that horrid contract is completely different. Could you explain that to me?
His base salary isn't horrid. It's the signing bonus that is. If he's traded they won't have to pay him any bonus money.

If he's a contibutor the base salary won't matter.

If he stinks they can cut him without any cap charges.

It's a year by year contract in essence.

Plus we need to keep in mind that this is all speculation at this point. We have no idea how the contract specifics will be worked out.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Manning has done so poorly that he needs replacing. I think he is a very good FS, and he will get better with time and coaching. Again, if Mike Brown is not replacable, why trade for Arch's very high salary for him to play part time?
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:34 PM    (permalink
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Archuleta signed for 6 years $30 mil, with $10 mil in guarantees, and most of his base salary was all back loaded. If the Redskins trade him, they will take a cap hit for all of his signing bonus and other remaining guaranteed money yet to be paid out. So his salary will be reasonable for the next couple years, and after which the Bears could cut him and not take a cap hit. So his contract is not that big of a deal for the Bears or who ever might trade for him.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:35 PM    (permalink
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His base salary isn't horrid. It's the signing bonus that is. If he's traded they won't have to pay him any bonus money.

If he's a contibutor the base salary won't matter.

If he stinks they can cut him without any cap charges.

It's a year by year contract in essence.

Plus we need to keep in mind that this is all speculation at this point. We have no idea how the contract specifics will be worked out.
Very true. I foresee the Redskins backloading the contract with bonus money to spread out the cap hit. Either way, they're going to be screwed again for making this move. That always amuses me. I didn't understand why they let Ryan Clark walk for 1/4 of the money they paid Arch, when Clark had a very productive season for them.

Regardless, this is an interesting topic of discussion.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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Archuleta signed for 6 years $30 mil, with $10 mil in guarantees, and most of his base salary was all back loaded. If the Redskins trade him, they will take a cap hit for all of his signing bonus and other remaining guaranteed money yet to be paid out. So his salary will be reasonable for the next couple years, and after which the Bears could cut him and not take a cap hit. So his contract is not that big of a deal for the Bears or who ever might trade for him.
I would assume Arch would want some sort of security and would ask the Bears to renegotiate the contract. He wants to get all the guaranteed income that he can. I would assume that the Bears will offer an incentive-laden contract to him.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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They could, and it wouldn't suprise me. But you have to remember that Chris Harris was a 6th round pick, Manning was a high 2nd round pick. I think that with Angelo's ego being what it is, and Lovie's preference for starting rookies, that they would find a way to keep Manning in the starting lineup.

That being said, if he continues to struggle I think a move to cornerback is inevitable, and probably for the best for all parties involved. It's not as crazy as some may think, I just think Arch needs to prove himself a little more before we start slotting him in the starting lineup of one of the best defenses in the league.
I was just trying to point out that the Bears would/could do that type of thing.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I would assume Arch would want some sort of security and would ask the Bears to renegotiate the contract. He wants to get all the guaranteed income that he can. I would assume that the Bears will offer an incentive-laden contract to him.
He would still get his, or has already gotten that money from the Redskins. If I'm not mistaken, he got it all when he signed, but the league allows teams to prorate the signing bonus for up to 7 years agaisnt the cap.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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There is no job security for Arch if he doesn't get some sort of reworked contract. No one wants to be expendable. I'm certain he will get more guaranteed money or up front money in a contract that works better for the Bears. Of course, this is all based on if there is even a trade...
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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I would assume Arch would want some sort of security and would ask the Bears to renegotiate the contract. He wants to get all the guaranteed income that he can. I would assume that the Bears will offer an incentive-laden contract to him.
Arch has already publicly stated, while a member of the Redskins organization, that he wished he would have taken less money and signed with the Bears last year because he felt like the Redskins had no idea what to do with him and he didn't understand in retrospect why they wanted to sign him in the first place (suprise suprise). I would imagine that money won't be much of an issue.

This is actually very similar to the Jeremiah Trotter situation where he got some money from the Redskins, didn't like it there, and come back for less money to an organization that knew more properly how to use him.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Trotter was a little different because a lot of his lack of productivity was due to the bilateral ACL tears he suffered as a member of the Redskins. In his 1 healthy year, he had over 100 tackles, but he wasn't very dominating as a read-and-react player. I do see the point, though. I was confused why Arch went to DC in the first place. While it stunk for him, I always enjoy watching the Skins flounder. This is just another example of their idiocy.

I never said that Arch wouldn't take less money. I said he would want to restructure or rewrite his contract to give himself more guaranteed money. His current contract probably works nicely for the Bears, but he needs to think about his own well-being. Getting a new contract, even for less money, means more up-front cash for him and his family. That kind of deal would probably benefit both sides nicely.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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Arch should already have gotten his $10 million in guaranteed money from the Redskins, and if traded to the Bears, the Bears wont have to owe him a dime in guaranteed money, just his base salary. And I dont see the Bears restructering his contract to give him more gauranteed money. As for job secruity, your right. He wont have much with the Bears because they wont owe him gauranteed money, but he should at least last two years, which is longer then he will with the Redskins.

If he wants more job security with the Bears, he would be better off getting cut right now by the Redskins and signing with the Bears.
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Old 03-20-2007, 12:57 PM    (permalink
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This is what I imagine happening if we pick up Arch and he looks like his old self in training camp. On first and second down Arch lines up as the eighth man in the box with the option to blitz while Brown plays the cover 1 FS while our CBs play press coverage. On third and long downs we play in cover 2 zone with D.Manning and Brown(and technically sometimes Urlacher) in the deep zones.

The more I think about it I believe Lovie wants Arch to have a major role in the defense because he has pursued him for three years straight. I don't think we would care if he was jsut going to be depth.

Brown may have lost some speed to play a center fielder in a cover 1 but in my opinion his instincts and ballhawking skills are what make him great and make our other safeties look like chumps when he goes down. We also have flexibility since Brown is great at the line of scrimmage also, just not durable enough to play there all year long.

D.Manning was a SS in college but listed as a CB in the draft because of his measurables. Trying him out at CB is probably a good idea since we won't be keeping both Tillman and Vasher for the future.
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:51 PM    (permalink
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Everyones over thinking this, if we get him he'll be our SS, Brown would play FS, Were already talking about moving manning to corner, he'd be a very good corner for us
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Old 03-20-2007, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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I'd be happy Vernon Fox is much better than him.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Correction, Ghetto. Vernon Fox is a better fit in the Redskins' scheme than Arch. It is very difficult to comapare safeties who play different styles.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by regoob2 View Post
Everyones over thinking this, if we get him he'll be our SS, Brown would play FS, Were already talking about moving manning to corner, he'd be a very good corner for us
Not really. I would say there is maybe a 20-30% chance of that happening.

If Manning was moved to corner he would only play on dime packages, which we only run on prevent situations (namely, he would barely play on defense).

If this move is made it's likely to shore up the depth we've lost and get a better insurance policy for Brown than Chris Harris.

Also, I tend to think deeply on this because I know what I'm talking about when it comes to the Bears.
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Old 03-20-2007, 02:43 PM    (permalink
regoob2
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If we sign him and everyones healthy Brown would start at FS, Arch at SS, and Manning a back up at FS and corner.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:09 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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If we sign him and everyones healthy Brown would start at FS, Arch at SS, and Manning a back up at FS and corner.
That's an opinion. Knowing the Bears organization I would say that is less than likely to happen.

This isn't about what you or I think should happen, it's about what likely would happen, and following enough tendancies that I've seen from the FO and the coaching staff I would say that it is likely not going to be the case.
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Old 03-20-2007, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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What would be the point of signing Arch then?
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