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Old 11-09-2010, 12:13 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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The Cowboys just need a coach who get lit a fire under players like Jenkins, Bennett, Jones, etc. all of the underachieving but talented players on that team. Cutting them isn't the answer.
Bennett is a lost cause. The guy just doesn't get it. And he never will, he doesn't care.

Only a Parcells like guy can get to him, but even then, he'll never live up to expectations and I wouldn't count on him in a tight spot.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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The Cowboys just need a coach who get lit a fire under players like Jenkins, Bennett, Jones, etc. all of the underachieving but talented players on that team. Cutting them isn't the answer.


Make it happen!
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I think Rob is overrated.

When did he ever have a great defense? When did he ever overachieve with his unit?
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Coordinator success =/= head coaching success. You could make a case that Mike McCarthy and Mike Smith were really questionable hires due to their unit's performance.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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Coordinator success =/= head coaching success. You could make a case that Mike McCarthy and Mike Smith were really questionable hires due to their unit's performance.
Exactly. Players LOVE playing for Rob Ryan, just like they do with Rex. I've always been impressed by his defensive packages/schemes, though I do realize that he has a tendency to revert to 'vanilla' formations from time to time.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:37 PM    (permalink
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That's true.

While we're on the subject, why don't more Special Teams coaches get any love? Look at Harbaugh. It can work.

And STs coaches are experienced with both offensive and defensive players. And won't have an ego and try to build the team in one direction over the other, they'd be more balanced.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:43 PM    (permalink
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I think Rob is overrated.

When did he ever have a great defense? When did he ever overachieve with his unit?
This year. He's getting a respectable performance out of a defense that, especially in the front 7, has NO ONE. Getting by with Ahytba Rubin and....Scott Fujita? Chris Gocong? In the Rob Ryan thread floating around here I tried to name as many of their front 7 defenders as I could and got stuck after like 3....Yet, they've been respectable enough to beat two contending teams this year.

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That's true.

While we're on the subject, why don't more Special Teams coaches get any love? Look at Harbaugh. It can work.

And STs coaches are experienced with both offensive and defensive players. And won't have an ego and try to build the team in one direction over the other, they'd be more balanced.
Dave Toub. I'd hate to lose him, but he is an amazing Special Teams coach. After Harbaugh got the Ravens job and succeeded, I was afraid Toub might be next because the Bears special teams are regularly one of the best units in the league. But since then, no one else has gone after any ST coaches so we might be safe.
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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Why play hard when your team is 1-6. Your season is over. Hate it if you want, but the team is done.
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Old 11-09-2010, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Exactly. Players LOVE playing for Rob Ryan, just like they do with Rex. I've always been impressed by his defensive packages/schemes, though I do realize that he has a tendency to revert to 'vanilla' formations from time to time.
I think Rex Ryan's success has kind of influenced the way people view Rob's defense. Its 2 very different defensive schemes. Rex is much more aggressive, especially in passing situations. Rex will consistently leave his DB's in 0 coverage whereas Rob has a tendency to play alot more of the soft zone that is popular in the NFL right now. I've spent alot of time studying both defenses closely (I'm one of the Ravens fans who still feels we should have made Rex HC), and I can tell you there is a hell of a lot more aggressiveness in Rex's defense then Rob's. I'm not saying Rob can't be a head coach, but he isn't the same coach as Rex is.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:04 PM    (permalink
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I think Rob is overrated.

When did he ever have a great defense? When did he ever overachieve with his unit?
With the Oakland defense he 90% rebuilt. Drafted an unknown quantity in Asomugha who was a Cal local player & JAG, now a Pro Bowl corner & one of if not the best in the game, 3rd or 4th rounder MLB Kirk Morrison from San Diego St. who led them in tackles as a rookie & 2nd yr man, DE Tyler Brayton from Colorado with the last pick of the 1st rd. (played out of position at OLB & was ineffective, moved back to DE & was effective), now with Carolina, Michael Huff at safety from Texas now in his 5th yr.... definite across the board talent upgrade. Their offense was dead last in the NFL but their defense may not have been great but became formidable & that was done by Ryan from 04-08.

btw waht does Mora know about it? how many yrs has he been out of the NFL? tell him to have Coke & a smile & shut tf up

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Old 11-09-2010, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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I'd still take him over a bunch of CB's in that draft class, and even in a down year is still better then DRC and McKelvin who were taken before him, as well as Cason who I wanted that was taken shortly after. I hate when players act like pussies, and play when they want to, but unfortunately he's one of those types, but at least I know he's talented and what he's capable of doing.
McKelvin's been clearly better this year, I'd add TT to the list of Corners from that draft that are better than Jenkins this year. He had a very good year last year, but he's been very disappointing this year.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Why play hard when your team is 1-6.
Exactly. They should cut the pay of the guys who are on bad teams too.

I mean, if you're going to dog it just because the team isn't doing well, then why pay the guy? If team success is your only motivation to live up to your contract, then the whole "money" thing shouldn't be a problem.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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The lack of any good safety play has really made the job tough on our corners. I'm surprised nobody has recognized that yet.

I'll tell you one thing... if Kenny Phillips and Antrel Rolle were our safeties, then our corners would be looking a lot diffrently, as well as our entire defense. That's why Patrick Peterson makes the most sense for us... he's almost a carbon copy of Rolle.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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The lack of any good safety play has really made the job tough on our corners. I'm surprised nobody has recognized that yet.

I'll tell you one thing... if Kenny Phillips and Antrel Rolle were our safeties, then our corners would be looking a lot diffrently, as well as our entire defense. That's why Patrick Peterson makes the most sense for us... he's almost a carbon copy of Rolle.
PP is bigger and i think faster than Rolle.....6'1 220+ to 6'0 208. Even if PP's are exaggerated slightly, he still seems even bigger.

I think a team taking him to strictly play him at S would get a good safety, but I'd love to see what a guy with his abilities can do at CB in the pros. Unreal size and speed combo.
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:30 PM    (permalink
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The lack of any good safety play has really made the job tough on our corners. I'm surprised nobody has recognized that yet.

I'll tell you one thing... if Kenny Phillips and Antrel Rolle were our safeties, then our corners would be looking a lot diffrently, as well as our entire defense. That's why Patrick Peterson makes the most sense for us... he's almost a carbon copy of Rolle.
*shrug* was it any different with Webster and Thomas last year when CC Brown and Michael Johnsonwere making everyone look terrible? People don't like excuses...
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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I think it's unfair to call Jenkins overrated. Overrated based on what? If it's based on last season, he's not overrated. He played great even if he was 1 on 1 most of the time. He had a superb season last year and that was one of the main reasons why our defense was so good, especially down the stretch. If it's based on this season, well no one has said that he's been playing good. He's having a horrible season just like a lot of his teammates.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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PP is bigger and i think faster than Rolle.....6'1 220+ to 6'0 208. Even if PP's are exaggerated slightly, he still seems even bigger.

I think a team taking him to strictly play him at S would get a good safety, but I'd love to see what a guy with his abilities can do at CB in the pros. Unreal size and speed combo.
CB is the more valueable position, his current position, and projected position. Just like Malcolm Jenkins and Antrell Rolle he'll get his shot at CB first, it would be a mistake to try him at FS right away IMO. We can get a guy like Deunta Williams early in the 2nd round if we choose, and Peterson & Jenkins makes a nice CB duo.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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He wasn't all that good last year in his "breakout season"
Ummm no. Actually, he was excellent. I'll be the first to admit, he's played like ass this year, but he was fantastic last season. Now Maclin got the best of him in a game, but he was pretty much locking down anyone who opposed him.
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Old 11-09-2010, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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I've said it before, but he doesnt have the greatest attitude. He can get demoralized if he gets beat, but when he's got it going...he plays with an unmatched swagger, and just gets better and better as the game wears on. He has all the talent in the world, but a pretty bad attitude to go with it. As is the case with many players.

He needs a good kick in the ass every once and a while. And yes, schematic changes and better safety play will help him out as well. I'm not worried about him yet...but he needs to learn to man up, because he has evidently quit before, when things get tough. And that crap just isnt going to fly...especially if we land one of those stronger willed coaches.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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That's true.

While we're on the subject, why don't more Special Teams coaches get any love? Look at Harbaugh. It can work.

And STs coaches are experienced with both offensive and defensive players. And won't have an ego and try to build the team in one direction over the other, they'd be more balanced.
I think it is harder for a special teams coach to head coaching job because while they have experience in both offense and defense, they aren't masters of either. They have to have a good OC and DC to be successful. Harbaugh has the benefit of a strong organization. They have an offensive staff including Cam Cameron, Al Saunders and Jim Zorn, who I think actually over think the game. I like Harbaugh, he is a strong head coach who is just runs the locker room and balances the team.

Normally when a team is looking for a new head coach they are clearing house with the coordinators too. Do you want to hire a HC, a DC, and a OC or just 2 of them?
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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*shrug* was it any different with Webster and Thomas last year when CC Brown and Michael Johnsonwere making everyone look terrible? People don't like excuses...
Aren't you contradicting yourself in the same sentence? You say Brown and Johnson were making everyone look terrible, but Webster and Thomas were good? *shrug* Try again.
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Old 11-09-2010, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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Aren't you contradicting yourself in the same sentence? You say Brown and Johnson were making everyone look terrible, but Webster and Thomas were good? *shrug* Try again.
Our safety situation last year was just as bad, if not worse, and quite frankly, even with that, our CBs had much better years than Jenkins is having this year.

Webster was having a great year until he got hurt, then he had a rough 4 games or so in a row after that and was above average but not shutdown after that.

TT was actually having an amazing year last year, even with the terrible safety play.

So while the safeties are surely part of the problem, they aren't the sole reason why Jenkins is having a terrible year. He's just having a bad year, that's all.

Look at the Jets. They basically run cover 0 every 3rd down and their safeties are terrible too. They manage.

Jenkins is just having a bad year.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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Seems like a good fit in SF if he does get cut....

The one thing Singletary has done well is motivate unmotivated players.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:12 PM    (permalink
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there's less than a 1 percent chance he gets cut.
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Old 11-09-2010, 05:26 PM    (permalink
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I think if I reranked the 08 corners Id rank Jenkins about 6th which is fine, id kick him in the nards if he did that on my team though
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