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Old 11-16-2010, 11:44 AM    (permalink
wonderbredd24
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Statistics. Quinn was the better pure quarterback. Smith was asked to make far fewer(and easier) reads and be much more a game manager. Quinn made the likes of Maurice Stovall and Rhema McKnight look like competent receivers along with playing with a crap offensive line. Quinn had to win games, Smith just had to not lose them, with the exception of the Michigan game that year where he played fantastic. Good player, but if you're asking me to chose one all other things equal, I'll go with Quinn every time. Tyrod Taylor is doing exactly what did his entire career without nearly as much fan fare.
I don't care about Troy Smith vs. Brady Quinn. I'd take Quinn too. Where I take issue is the idea that Troy Smith only threw when the running game was not working, which is just insane. That was about as pass happy as Jim Tressel is gonna get.

Quinn did have a receiver by the name of Jeff something... but he was probably just a bum too since he's a pitcher. And a tight end... John Carlson? 2nd round pick tight ends are usually no good either.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:45 AM    (permalink
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Almost beating USC. Does that have anything to do with him? Despite the fact AJ Hawk was porking his sister doesn't mean the Notre Dame defense had anyone worth a damn.
So it's ND's defense's fault that Quinn threw three interceptions (one brought back to the house, one brought back to the ND 20-ish) and had a fumble where he wasn't touched by a UM defender brought back to the house? Ok. It's the defense's fault that he completed less than 50 percent of his passes against LSU and USC? Not sure I buy that. It's easy to sling a million touchdowns against Air Force and Purdue. His stats against the three BCS-caliber teams he played that year were...

61-128, 47.6%, 656 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT. Not exactly awe-inspiring.

I was a big Quinn believer as a prospect, but to claim that he was a better college player than Troy Smith is ludicrous.
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Old 11-16-2010, 12:00 PM    (permalink
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So it's ND's defense's fault that Quinn threw three interceptions (one brought back to the house, one brought back to the ND 20-ish) and had a fumble where he wasn't touched by a UM defender brought back to the house? Ok. It's the defense's fault that he completed less than 50 percent of his passes against LSU and USC? Not sure I buy that. It's easy to sling a million touchdowns against Air Force and Purdue. His stats against the three BCS-caliber teams he played that year were...

61-128, 47.6%, 656 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT. Not exactly awe-inspiring.

I was a big Quinn believer as a prospect, but to claim that he was a better college player than Troy Smith is ludicrous.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Quinn was a far more effective passer when everything was created equally. Had Smith beat by both arm strength and accuracy. Charlie Weis did some real stupid **** gameplan wise and with his playcalling that put Notre Dame in horrible positions to both win and be effective in football games(Although he also did some real good things in coaching Quinn). The talent level in 2006 at Notre Dame was also probably lower than it is right now. Jeff Samardzija was a nice receiver to have and John Carlson pretty decent too(although vastly underutilized for the most part).

I'm not the only one who thought that too. Quinn won both the Maxwell and the Unitas awards that year. Smith might have been the more valuable player in 2006, but if you were to tell me to pick between the two if I were starting a program, I would pick Quinn every time.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:34 PM    (permalink
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Troy Smith played like a franchise quarterback on Sunday. I was really excited to see what he can bring to the table, but at the same time I know he's only had two good games, both against teams that aren't exactly elite. Not to mention how many times have we seen guys like Billy Volek, Damon Huard, Matt Moore, Todd Collins, and Shaun Hill perform well down the stretch of a season, only to fall flat on their face the following year?

My worst fear is Troy Smith playing great for the rest of the season, but not well enough for the 49ers to make the playoffs. But due to the late surge momentum...Troy Smith will be handed the job and Mike Singletary will remain the head coach. Not to mention some guys who don't deserve to be back, will be back. This exact scenario has happened the last two years. Once with Shaun Hill being giving the starting job and then Alex Smith the following season. Both fell flat on their faces after having late season surges the following year.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:07 PM    (permalink
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I liked him coming out *shrug*. But I don't view him as a franchise qb.

Proceed with Troy at your own risk.
This.

Not sure what's so special about him...He's a "winner" and obviously a smart and likable guy...but physically I don't believe he's talented enough to be a franchise QB.
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:43 PM    (permalink
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Troy Smith was in no way better than Brady Quinn in college. He was on a better team, sure, but he played in a spread offense and only threw when the run wasn't working.
I think we're seeing in the NFL the same things that made Troy a better player than Brady. Brady can't get within 5 yards of a receiver downfield. He was in Charlie Weis' QB-friendly offense that had Jimmy Clausen put up ridiculously good numbers as well. Troy took over big games with his arm and won them numerous times at Ohio State. And while the Buckeyes did spread the field several times in 2005 and 2006 (wouldn't you play 4 and 5 WRs if you had Santonio Holmes, Ted Ginn, Anthony Gonzalez, Brian Robiskie, Brian Hartline, and Roy Hall?) they used the fullback at least 50% of the time and Smith took snaps from center more than half of the plays.

I can see why you or anyone would say Brady was better than Troy coming out, that's one of the reasons why Troy was a late round pick and Brady was a 1st round pick.....however I think looking at how things are right now and seeing what Quinn didn't do and Smith did do in college it's safe to say Troy was better. He did afterall win the heisman and put up awesome stats. It's not exactly easy to put up great passing stats for a conservative coach like Tressel who doesn't even have an offensive coordinator than it is for some schools either.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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I think BigDawg had a really interesting quote about how if Troy Smith was 4 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier, he would have had a 60 million dollar check hanging on his wall that draft instead of Jamarcus Russell. I was a big believer in Smith, its one of the reasons I was so against the Flacco selection at first. Good to see him finally succeeding, I hope he tears it up in San Fran.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:20 PM    (permalink
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I think BigDawg had a really interesting quote about how if Troy Smith was 4 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier, he would have had a 60 million dollar check hanging on his wall that draft instead of Jamarcus Russell. I was a big believer in Smith, its one of the reasons I was so against the Flacco selection at first. Good to see him finally succeeding, I hope he tears it up in San Fran.
He would've been a decently high draft pick if he didn't completely **** it all up going into the national title game.

Troy Smith hit the banquet circuit hard and was out of shape for the game raising questions about his dedication to the game and to his team before the biggest game of his life. People were talking about him in the 2nd round before that... then he fell to the 6th.

On top of that, I know people who saw Troy Smith and Ted Ginn in the offseason when he was with the Ravens and Ginn with the Dolphins. One of them looked like a football player and it was not Troy Smith. Again, he had let himself get out of shape and put on a bunch of weight.

If Troy Smith, like Mike Williams in Seattle, has decided to grow up and take football seriously, who knows how far he can go?
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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I turned on the 49ers game sunday and saw Troy and thought he looked slimmer than he ever did at Ohio State. Maybe it was the fact that he changed his number from double digits (10) to single digits (1) that made the optical illusion, but he doesn't look as stocky as he did before.
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:25 PM    (permalink
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Troy Smith was a God in college, Brady Quinn ... :/
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:35 PM    (permalink
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Troy Smith was a better QB then, and he is a better QB now.

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Old 11-16-2010, 07:37 PM    (permalink
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Troy Smith was a better QB then, and he is a better QB now.

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Old 11-16-2010, 07:43 PM    (permalink
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So it's ND's defense's fault that Quinn threw three interceptions (one brought back to the house, one brought back to the ND 20-ish) and had a fumble where he wasn't touched by a UM defender brought back to the house? Ok. It's the defense's fault that he completed less than 50 percent of his passes against LSU and USC? Not sure I buy that. It's easy to sling a million touchdowns against Air Force and Purdue. His stats against the three BCS-caliber teams he played that year were...

61-128, 47.6%, 656 yards, 8 TD, 5 INT. Not exactly awe-inspiring.

I was a big Quinn believer as a prospect, but to claim that he was a better college player than Troy Smith is ludicrous.
I thought it was all quite obvious. I expected Quinn to be better than he is, but I never saw the hype in him. He played big against the service academies and faltered when the defenses he went up against were actually capable of covering his receivers and pressuring him. His mechanics absolutely fell apart the moment there was anyone in his face and he didn't have the arm strength to throw a laser off his back foot to make the play. You got pressure on BQ, even in college, and he looked like crap out there.

Typical Quinn fan response: Every QB plays worse when they're under pressure

Yeah, but look at him. He has zero pocket presence or awareness to step around the rush, and he can't throw off of his back foot either. Obviously a QB is gonna do better when he has time, but in the NFL a QB has to be able to face a pass rush and get the ball where it needs to be.

Quinn fan response: His offensive line was awful and he barely had any time to throw against the top college teams.

Yeah, welcome to the NFL buddy. Not many guys get to stand back there for 5 seconds to find an open man. Part of being an NFL QB is maintaining composure when you're facing the blitz, or even just any pass rush period, and that's something Brady Quinn could never do. The Brady Quinn you saw under pressure was much, much more likely to be the Brady Quinn we saw in the pros because NFL defenses GET pressure on the quarterback, especially if that quarterback is on a bad team, like the one Quinn was drafted by.

And that, friends, is why BQ is the worst QB on an NFL roster right now.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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There were rumors of Smith having gambling issues in college as well.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:09 PM    (permalink
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There were rumors of Smith having gambling issues in college as well.
when you're winning that many games, how could you not throw some money down?
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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Yeah man Ohio st was cash money that year.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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I turned on the 49ers game sunday and saw Troy and thought he looked slimmer than he ever did at Ohio State. Maybe it was the fact that he changed his number from double digits (10) to single digits (1) that made the optical illusion, but he doesn't look as stocky as he did before.
He did have an illness that made him lose a ton of weight, I think. Maybe he hasn't quite gotten it all back yet.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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I feel like Troy is an upgrade over Alex, but not really a winning-caliber QB. His stats on first down really show teams are expecting the 49ers to run and not playing the pass. Once they adjust he's going to struggle.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:55 PM    (permalink
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I liked Smith a lot when the Ravens picked him up. He showed some talent in 2007. But then we took Flacco. After that while he was in pre-season he looked like he didnt belong in the NFL. It looks like Troy Smith is just a gamer and shows up for the real thing. Gotta love that in a player. I hope he does well.
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Old 11-16-2010, 11:15 PM    (permalink
JoeJoeBrown
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Troy Smith looked pretty good. Let's see how he does the rest of the season. Not much to add to what already has been discussed about him. He has his question marks, and he needs to prove that his assets can surpass them. His leadership and in-game poise are leaps and bounds ahead of a lot of NFL QBs. That goes a long way in mitigating being a midget.

I'm glad that DC members are mostly sane and intelligent. It was displayed by almost everyone agreeing that Smith was a better college QB than noodle arm Quinn. I can't believe that anyone with a pair of eyes would think Quinn was better, other than a die hard leprechaun humper.

For someone as large and juiced up as Quinn, he really had a weak arm. And he always folded under pressure. Above average college QB, terrible NFL QB.
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Old 11-22-2010, 07:31 AM    (permalink
phlysac
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What a difference a week makes.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:23 AM    (permalink
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I think he'll have the worst game of his career on sunday :)
I was right.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:24 AM    (permalink
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What a difference a week makes.
My opinion has not changed at all
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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I didn't get to (or should I say have to) watch that disgusting game yesterday, but I can say that those overall offensive statistics were as ugly as I can ever remember seeing, from any team in the NFL.

I guess they need more first round draft picks on their OL.
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:51 AM    (permalink
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I guess they need more first round draft picks on their OL.
Or, yanno, just spend one on a legit QB to play behind them. With experience, hopefully the o-line will develop. But it's an overall young group with 2 rookies, it's going to have issues regardless of how talented they are.

Whoever they get to play QB should have some nice things to work with...better than what most teams who draft a new QB get. Davis, Crabtree, Gore, a talented but inexperienced o-line...
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