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Old 11-16-2010, 02:23 AM    (permalink
wogitalia
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I love that gif because it looks like Childress and I just think of him thinking about what play to call and coming up with a run being a good idea!
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Old 11-16-2010, 05:03 AM    (permalink
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Richard Seymour!!! If you were to build a perfect 5 technique from scratch it would be him.
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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I say Ty Warren is right up there when he's healthy.
He's on IR this year though :/
G.Warren has done a hell of a job in his spot though
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Ngata and Justin Smith are the top 2.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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Seymour would be if he was still in the 34. Aaron Smith is next in line but he's hurt too. Ngata and Wilfork have been playing DE but I still consider them DT/NT moreso than DE.

I'd say the best one that is healthy and playing 34DE consistently is probably Justin Smith. Randy Starks is up there too.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SenorGato View Post
Stroud would dominate the position if they wanted to or were asked to...
I hope for the love of all that is holy you are not talking about Marcus Stroud... He has been borderline completely useless playing DE for the Bills this year in there 3-4 sets, and that might be a generous assessment...
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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I only counted the teams that have run the 3-4 regularly over the last few years, NOT drastic hybrids or the occasional 3-man front. I added the exceptions at the end.


1. Aaron Smith - Pittsburgh Steelers
2. Haloti Ngata - Baltimore Ravens
3. Justin Smith - San Francisco 49ers
4. Darnell Dockett - Arizona Cardinals
5. Ty Warren - New England Patriots
6. Cullen Jenkins - Green Bay Packers
7. Kendall Langford - Miami Dolphins
8. Glenn Dorsey - Kansas City Chiefs
9. Randy Starks - Miami Dolphins
10. Jacques Cesaire - San Diego Chargers


* Richard Seymour - Oakland Raiders - Perhaps the best 3-4 DE of All-Time. He's, at minimum, the "prototype" for the modern era.

* Dwan Edwards - Buffalo Bills - He would likely be on this list if the Bills hadn't switched back to the 4-3.
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:05 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by lowlife View Post
What I've seen of Kyle Williams is pretty impressive in Buffalo's terrible hybrid scheme.
Kyle Williams is terribly under rated, he is having a great year playing out of position in a scheme that does not suit his talents. I think he would be an outstanding 3-4 DE, as it is he is doing a fantastic job as a NT currently, all things considered. He is not a dominate run stopper as a 3-4 NT, but is a true gamer, who should be in the pro-bowl this year.

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Originally Posted by D-Unit View Post
Take Haloti out of the equation.

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i dont really count ngata as a 34DE since he was such a monster NT/5 tech prospect and is crushing the world no matter where he lines up.
Why would Ngata not be in the conversation/equation, and/or not count? I dont understand why not, I was under the impression that so far this season most of his time is spent not playing the nose, based on having seen several ravens games in which I primarily noticed him playing DE... I would list him as the best 3-4 DE in the game right now.
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
I only counted the teams that have run the 3-4 regularly over the last few years, NOT drastic hybrids or the occasional 3-man front. I added the exceptions at the end.


1. Aaron Smith - Pittsburgh Steelers
2. Haloti Ngata - Baltimore Ravens
3. Justin Smith - San Francisco 49ers
4. Darnell Dockett - Arizona Cardinals
5. Ty Warren - New England Patriots
6. Cullen Jenkins - Green Bay Packers
7. Kendall Langford - Miami Dolphins
8. Glenn Dorsey - Kansas City Chiefs
9. Randy Starks - Miami Dolphins
10. Jacques Cesaire - San Diego Chargers


* Richard Seymour - Oakland Raiders - Perhaps the best 3-4 DE of All-Time. He's, at minimum, the "prototype" for the modern era.

* Dwan Edwards - Buffalo Bills - He would likely be on this list if the Bills hadn't switched back to the 4-3.
Thanks. This is the most complete list that I have seen.

1. Aaron Smith
2. Haloti Ngata
3. Justin Smith
4. Darnell Dockett
5. Ty Warren
6. Cullen Jenkins
7. Kendall Langford
8. Glenn Dorsey
9. Randy Starks
10. Jacques Cesaire

Now look at this list of prospective 3-4 DEs.

Marcel Dareus
Adrian Clayborn
Nick Fairley
Cameron Jordan
Allen Bailey
Cameron Heyward
Stephen Paea
Christian Ballard
Jared Crick
Muhammad Wilkerson
Marvin Austin
Jarvis Jenkins

How big of a shift do you think we'll see in that original list of 10?
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:37 PM    (permalink
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I'd still love to see Kevin Williams as a DE in a 3-4.
didnt you guys play the 3-4 like five years ago?
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:54 PM    (permalink
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i was realllllllllllly high when i wrote that lmao...you get the point though
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Old 11-16-2010, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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Why would Ngata not be in the conversation/equation, and/or not count? I dont understand why not, I was under the impression that so far this season most of his time is spent not playing the nose, based on having seen several ravens games in which I primarily noticed him playing DE... I would list him as the best 3-4 DE in the game right now.
i just think hes the unquestioned best dlineman in the game right now no matter where he lines up....not the mention the ravens seem to play alot of 43 and move him all over. ngata and suh are two of my favorite dline players ever, glad to see them both crushing the world
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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Why would Ngata not be in the conversation/equation, and/or not count? I dont understand why not, I was under the impression that so far this season most of his time is spent not playing the nose, based on having seen several ravens games in which I primarily noticed him playing DE... I would list him as the best 3-4 DE in the game right now.
Ngata does play most of his snaps at the five technique (both sides of the line) so he should be included. It's where he's played most of the snaps in his career as well, I'd really like to see the argument for why he shouldn't be considered a 5-technique.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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Ngata really only plays the nose in obvious pass rush situations when Terrence Cody and Kelly Gregg shouldn't be on the field. He gets a nice interior push and allows guys like Suggs to match up individually on the outside. From what I've seen this season, Ngata is head and shoulders above anyone else in the league right now when it comes to 5 tech play. In fact, he might be the most dominant defensive lineman regardless of scheme. He's been near unstoppable this season.

Justin Smith, Aaron Smith, Richard Seymour, Randy Starks, and Darnell Dockett would round out the elite group I'd imagine. Starks was amazing last year, but from what I understand and what I've seen he's fallen off a bit this year.
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Old 11-16-2010, 03:14 PM    (permalink
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didnt you guys play the 3-4 like five years ago?
No. 10 characters.
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Football...it's rocket surgery now, folks.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:24 PM    (permalink
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The Dolphins DEs with Starks and Langford is the envy of the division IMO. I really like those two guys...they signed Starks for pennies.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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I hope for the love of all that is holy you are not talking about Marcus Stroud... He has been borderline completely useless playing DE for the Bills this year in there 3-4 sets, and that might be a generous assessment...
I meant in his youthful days...Position was made for guys like him tbh...The pure size, length, and athleticism is what the position takes advantage of, and it's why guys like Seymour and Smith have been so successful...Nowadays he's not much of a mover or shaker but back even 6-7 years ago he and Henderson were the Williams Brothers of the day.

Edit: Can't believe I forgot about Warren. He's at the top of the 2nd tier.
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Old 11-16-2010, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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Starks was amazing last year, but from what I understand and what I've seen he's fallen off a bit this year.
Its not so much that he's fallen off. The coaching staff made him bulk up and he started the year at NT but with Odrick getting hurt and Paul Soliai emerging as a much better NT than the coaching staff expected, they moved him back over to DE. He has lost some of the quickness but he's still very stout against the run. He's been dropping some of the weight he gained and he's regaining his previous form. I expect him to be back in the elite group by the end of the season.
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Old 11-16-2010, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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No. 10 characters.
Didnt you have Ted Cotrell? Im pretty sure i got a game on dvd somewhere and you where using the 3-4 as base D
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Old 11-16-2010, 07:14 PM    (permalink
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Can everyone finally agree with me now that Aaron Smith is the most important player on Pitt's defense?
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Old 11-16-2010, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Can everyone finally agree with me now that Aaron Smith is the most important player on Pitt's defense?
Hell no I am still Team Troy
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Old 11-16-2010, 10:34 PM    (permalink
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Can everyone finally agree with me now that Aaron Smith is the most important player on Pitt's defense?
ive always said that....i dont think its a coincidence troy is being made a fool out there this year since the dline is in shambles.

evander hood easily makes the list of the top 10 worst starting 34 DEs right now....hes atrocious, i been saying that since april 09 though
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:24 AM    (permalink
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Can everyone finally agree with me now that Aaron Smith is the most important player on Pitt's defense?
Didn't you hear? Troy Polamalu is the best defensive back in the NFL apparently. There was a big thread about it earlier this season and everything.

Oh wait...
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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ive always said that....i dont think its a coincidence troy is being made a fool out there this year since the dline is in shambles.

evander hood easily makes the list of the top 10 worst starting 34 DEs right now....hes atrocious, i been saying that since april 09 though
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Originally Posted by A Perfect Score View Post
Didn't you hear? Troy Polamalu is the best defensive back in the NFL apparently. There was a big thread about it earlier this season and everything.

Oh wait...
I agreed on the first page ten fold. I've been saying this since last year when both Smith and Polamalu were hurt.

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I tried to keep pointing out last year just how good and important to the Steelers defense Aaron Smith is/was. But Polamalu was out at the same time and just about everybody like to write his absence off as the reason for their decline.

Now the Steelers are without Smith but have Polamalu....and abortions like the Pats game happen. Polamalu is like the icing on the cake...he lines up all over and takes advantage of the pressure the front 7 usually creates. But Smith is the key cog that makes it all run. Without him holding the point and taking on multiple blockers, the linebackers don't run quite as free, the pass rush doesn't get there as quickly, and the secondary is exposed for being as bad as it really is. Force Polamalu into deep zones and suddenly his impactfulness goes to hell.....

Smith is damn, damn fine player and 2nd only to in-his-prime Seymour as a 3-4 end imo.

But like other people have been saying, so many defenses are running muddled 3-4s that it's hard to tell who is what.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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I've been saying this for the last few years, and I pointed out how overrated he is in the Troy Polamalu Better Then Darrelle Revis? Thread a few months back. Its absolutely insane how many people are all over his jock.
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