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Old 11-16-2010, 08:55 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
From tonights performance that isnt going to be easy to do.
It won't be as hard as you think. The Redskins were just terribly ill equipped. Between their fat slow front 3 and London Feltcher playing centerfield in what looked like a deep Cover 3, Vick had all day to pass and huge lanes to run through when he decided to do that. Fletcher should have been the one spying him. The better defensive minds is this league will stop him. This is still the same Vick before he went to prison. All legs and deep ball. I haven't seen too much to make me think he can throw better between the numbers or intermediate routes. No offense can continue scoring in huge chunks like that. And chances are Vick will get hurt again before he plays against any of these great D coordinators. The guy still refuses to slide even when his team is up by 28 or even more.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Hate hate hate hate hate
Ye, I hear that.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:05 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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Originally Posted by AHungryWalrus View Post
Ye, I hear that.
What's any different than 3 years ago when the league eventually caught up to him and people thought he was the most overrated QB in the league cause he was only completing 55% of his passes? He's the same guy. He's just coming off some real good games. But he'll come back down to earth soon. That or get hurt.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:07 AM    (permalink
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What's any different than 3 years ago when the league eventually caught up to him and people thought he was the most overrated QB in the league cause he was only completing 55% of his passes? He's the same guy. He's just coming off some real good games. But he'll come back down to earth soon. That or get hurt.
You better hope so. I don't ever remember Vick having a 115.1 QB rating this late in the season or no turnovers. Maybe that's just my biased view.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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You better hope so. I don't ever remember Vick having a 115.1 QB rating this late in the season or no turnovers. Maybe that's just my biased view.
Well obviously the numbers are pretty. But what about him is better? He's the same exact player. His flaws before are still his same flaws. The good coaches in this league are going to get him like they did before.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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i have vick, brandon lloyd, and arian foster on my fantasty team. does that make me a genius or just extremely lucky? haha
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:09 AM    (permalink
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What's any different than 3 years ago when the league eventually caught up to him and people thought he was the most overrated QB in the league cause he was only completing 55% of his passes? He's the same guy. He's just coming off some real good games. But he'll come back down to earth soon. That or get hurt.
Maybe (hopefully before playoff time). Maybe not. He's done everything that has been asked of him this year. If a decent coordinator takes away the run and the deep ball, then we'll see how far he has really changed. But from I've seen, he has at least been much better at completing all of his reads than he was with Atlanta. Dammit.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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What's any different than 3 years ago when the league eventually caught up to him and people thought he was the most overrated QB in the league cause he was only completing 55% of his passes? He's the same guy. He's just coming off some real good games. But he'll come back down to earth soon. That or get hurt.
He's completing 63% of his passes for a passer rating of 115. He's running at 8 yards per clip. Averaging almost 2 YPA higher than he EVER has. He has 0!! interceptions in 153 attempts.

Saying he is going to "fall back to earth soon" despite no evidence, is essentially the definition of prejudicial opinion. I mean, the fact he plays for a divisional rival of yours probably has NOTHING to do with it.

Is there a chance he plays bad against the Giants? Sure. Manning and Brady have bad games sometimes. It happens. But that doesn't negate his body of work for the rest of this season.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Well obviously the numbers are pretty. But what about him is better? He's the same exact player. His flaws before are still his same flaws. The good coaches in this league are going to get him like they did before.
From what I have gathered the major difference this year is his work ethic.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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i have vick and arian foster on my fantasty team. does that make me a genius or just extremely lucky? haha
A bit of both. Depends how late you got them, i suppose.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:11 AM    (permalink
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Well obviously the numbers are pretty. But what about him is better? He's the same exact player. His flaws before are still his same flaws. The good coaches in this league are going to get him like they did before.
He's much better progressing through reads and being accurate with the shorter routes. He honestly looks like he is studying the defense now, whereas before he reacted to it.

He looks like he's actually working now, as opposed to just showing up.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:14 AM    (permalink
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He's much better progressing through reads and being accurate with the shorter routes. He honestly looks like he is studying the defense now, whereas before he reacted to it.

He looks like he's actually working now, as opposed to just showing up.
Well that's where we disagree. I see him completing the deep ball. I do see him making the progressions in his head, but I see him being hesistant to throw those passes. He's making the progressions and trying to pass before he runs but at the end of the day he's still running. The line as been giving him a ton of time.

Sure it certainly helps me dislike him being on the Eagles. But I disliked him on Atlanta. And his actions sure didn't help my existing dislike for him.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:21 AM    (permalink
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The problem with defending Vick against people that just flat out hate him, is that it's lose-lose. I mean, they'll never admit he is any good. He would have to have a flawless season, because even if he has one subpar game (hell, probably even pass) they will just point to that and go "look, that one game there, that's the real Vick. Ignore the other 14 games. They are aberrations where the defense didn't try. That one game, that's the one that matters."

I mean, honestly, Vick could go, let's say... 20-28 with 333 yards and 4 TD's, and then run for, oh, I don't know, 8 carries and 80 yards with 2 TD's... and this could all be in a blowout where the second half he doesn't even have to throw. I mean, that's ridiculous, because, honestly, I doubt that would ever happen.

But, even if it did, people that dislike Vick would still be on here bashing him, saying he's not complete. Crazy, right?
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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But, even if it did, people that dislike Vick would still be on here bashing him, saying he's not complete. Crazy, right?
Do you think the Redskins defense had a smart plan against him or even gave what looked like a respresentative NFL defense? I think the win against the Colts was more impressive than the 58 last night.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:24 AM    (permalink
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A bit of both. Depends how late you got them, i suppose.
vick after week 2, foster in the draft, lloyd after week 4. i'm just extremely lucky, and everyone else in the league extremely dumb for not grabbing them.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Do you think the Redskins defense had a smart plan against him or even gave what looked like a respresentative NFL defense? I think the win against the Colts was more impressive than the 58 last night.
I think their idea to use Landry to spy Vick was a lot better than your idea to use Fletcher. Fletcher has 0 shot of running Vick down. Literally. That would be as helpful as myself spying Vick from my chair at home (which I definitely did, Vick is sexy).

What was more impressive about that game?
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:27 AM    (permalink
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vick after week 2, foster in the draft, lloyd after week 4. i'm just extremely lucky, and everyone else in the league extremely dumb for not grabbing them.
Same. Vick, Foster, Lloyd and Hillis are carrying one team where I completely botched the draft. Other than grabbing Foster, I suppose.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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I don't see how people can say this is the same Vick as old.
He's never played this good before in his life!
The progression, the determination to pass and only running when he has too (or designed to)
This is the Vick we all thought he could turn into. It's fun to watch
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:38 AM    (permalink
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Well obviously the numbers are pretty. But what about him is better? He's the same exact player.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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You are fooling yourself if you think Vick is still the same player he was a few years ago. That or extremely, extremely ignorant.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:41 AM    (permalink
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Nice to see that we still have a good old-fashioned Vick thread left in us.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:42 AM    (permalink
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You are fooling yourself if you think Vick is still the same player he was a few years ago. That or extremely, extremely ignorant.
The main difference in my mind is a better coach. And better deep threats. But as a player the only difference I see is he winces more after taking hits. I'm just hoping Andy gets pass happy this Sunday. Because I don't think our D coordinator is smart enough to stop the offensive attack. There are guys are out there who can. I just don't think we have that guy.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:42 AM    (permalink
BamaFalcon59
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Also, it's unfortunate that we couldnt' see this player during his first decade playing. Didn't play five years (2001, 2003, 2007, 2008, 2009) and played backyard footballl during most of the others (2004, 2005, 2006).

Had he had dedication and a coaching staff like this, we're talking about one of the best of all time.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
The main difference in my mind is a better coach. And better deep threats. But as a player the only difference I see is he winces more after taking hits. I'm just hoping Andy gets pass happy this Sunday. Because I don't think our D coordinator is smart enough to stop the offensive attack. There are guys are out there who can. I just don't think we have that guy.
You're not really this dense, are you? Fine, I'll spell it out for you.

His throwing accuracy is night and day. He fits the ball into tight windows when he has to, whereas '03 Mike Vick would either take off and run or get picked. His throw to Jackson last night was about as pretty as it gets. He dropped a ******* rainbow right into Jackson's hands, leading him perfectly. His touchdown to Avant was amazing. '03 Mike Vick would have scrambled six times by the time last night's Vick threaded the ball between two defenders into a tight window. His patience with the football is incredible. Jaws and Chucky were raving about it last night. Instead of going "Oh, first man's covered, time to scramble", Vick goes through his progressions at a level I never thought possible. He only scrambles as a last resort.

Better targets doesn't mean a 33.5 jump in passer rating over your previous best or a 6.3 percent jump in completion percentage over your career best.
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Old 11-16-2010, 09:56 AM    (permalink
Jughead10
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You're not really this dense, are you? Fine, I'll spell it out for you.

His throwing accuracy is night and day. He fits the ball into tight windows when he has to, whereas '03 Mike Vick would either take off and run or get picked. His throw to Jackson last night was about as pretty as it gets. He dropped a ******* rainbow right into Jackson's hands, leading him perfectly. His touchdown to Avant was amazing. '03 Mike Vick would have scrambled six times by the time last night's Vick threaded the ball between two defenders into a tight window. His patience with the football is incredible. Jaws and Chucky were raving about it last night. Instead of going "Oh, first man's covered, time to scramble", Vick goes through his progressions at a level I never thought possible. He only scrambles as a last resort.

Better targets doesn't mean a 33.5 jump in passer rating over your previous best or a 6.3 percent jump in completion percentage over your career best.
His deep ball accuracy was always beautiful. Obviously that hasn't changed. He throws the best ball deep ball in the game. He just can't throw intermediately. Yeah the Avant TD was nice too, but that's what he can't and has never done consistently. And please About Jaws and Chucky. Jaws loves every Eagles, and Gruden thinks everyone playing in that weeks game is the greatest player in the NFL. Its hard to imagine he was ever a coach in the NFL with the way he thinks everyone is amazing.

The main difference I see is what you said about first man is covered and then scramble. He doesn't do that anymore. He goes through all the progressions but then still holds onto the ball and still scrambles. He's still extremely tentative on intermediate throws.
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