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Old 11-26-2010, 01:30 PM    (permalink
49ersfan_87
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Default Blow up or Build up?

There are 10 teams in the NFL with 3 wins or fewer right now

Cowboys
Broncos
49ers
Vikings
Cardinals
Bengals
Bills
Panthers
Lions
Browns

Should these teams be blown up , ie start from scratch, trade vets for draft picks, go on a youth movement, or should they be built up, ie adding talent at a few key positions?
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:48 PM    (permalink
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Well I only feel comfortable speaking for the Vikes. We need to build around our young talent. And remove a lot of the veterns. The first big step has been takin thankfully by firing Childress. Keeping our talented younger players(Peterson, Harvin, Rice, Greenway, K-Will, Allen) And parting with some other vets(Favre, McKinnie, Manure Williams, P-Williams, Jackson, Ryan Cook).
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - Build Up - Talent still remains. Some help to the o-line and secondary, plus getting Romo healthy, should have this team back in playoff contention before long. A lot of their losing earlier this year seemed to be more attitude than lack of ability.

Broncos - Build Up - They've committed to McDaniels and through him, his offensive system and Tim Tebow. While we can doubt all we want whether they're going in the right direction or not, that is the only direction they're going to go in.

49ers - Blow Up - And start from step 1. New coach, new franchise QB and go from there. They have talent on offense, but no worthwhile QB. And their defense needs help as well. A true pass rushing OLB would be a great start, and they could also use secondary help.

Vikings - Blow Up - Purge this team of all of the old veterans and build up around your young pieces with a new coach. Step one will be to get a new QB. But I think, depending on who the next coach is and given their dicey stadium situation, they may be compelled to try and win now. If they do that, they might be able to make a playoff push next year, but their long term prospects will be in serious jeopardy.

Cardinals - Blow Up - Surprising? Their QB situation is awful, their o-line is awful, their running game can never get going consistently, and their defense was gutted losing key pieces last offseason. And to top it all off, Larry Fitzgerald's contract only goes one more year iirc, and with such questions at QB, I doubt he'd re-up with them. They may have to trade him to get something now or face letting him walk for nothing later...

Bengals - Blow Up - New everything, starting with coach and QB. Palmer is just awful and even his most staunch defenders are losing reasons after each week to support him. He's due franchise QB money next year, and he isn't worth it. Dump their headache veteran WRs too.

Bills - Build Up - They basically started rebuilding last year but just didn't have a new QB to pair with the efforts. Get a top young QB this year, let him sit as long as Fitzpatrick can keep playing reasonably well, and add talent wherever you can with the rest of your picks.

Panthers - Blow Up - Destroy this team. Take Andrew Luck #1 overall and go from there.

Lions - Build Up - They need to get Stafford healthy and keep him healthy...if they can do that, they could keep going right up. Their secondary is still awful as evidenced yesterday, and it's just one of their problems outside of keeping Stafford from getting hurt....but they're committed to this core of players, and need to keep at it.

Browns - Build Up - RB and OL seem strong, and Colt McCoy has been better than expected...but they could still use some WRs and basically a new everything in the front 7. Add talent however possible at those positions.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:15 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - Build Up - Talent still remains. Some help to the o-line and secondary, plus getting Romo healthy, should have this team back in playoff contention before long. A lot of their losing earlier this year seemed to be more attitude than lack of ability.

Broncos - Build Up - They've committed to McDaniels and through him, his offensive system and Tim Tebow. While we can doubt all we want whether they're going in the right direction or not, that is the only direction they're going to go in.

49ers - Blow Up - And start from step 1. New coach, new franchise QB and go from there. They have talent on offense, but no worthwhile QB. And their defense needs help as well. A true pass rushing OLB would be a great start, and they could also use secondary help.

Vikings - Blow Up - Purge this team of all of the old veterans and build up around your young pieces with a new coach. Step one will be to get a new QB. But I think, depending on who the next coach is and given their dicey stadium situation, they may be compelled to try and win now. If they do that, they might be able to make a playoff push next year, but their long term prospects will be in serious jeopardy.

Cardinals - Blow Up - Surprising? Their QB situation is awful, their o-line is awful, their running game can never get going consistently, and their defense was gutted losing key pieces last offseason. And to top it all off, Larry Fitzgerald's contract only goes one more year iirc, and with such questions at QB, I doubt he'd re-up with them. They may have to trade him to get something now or face letting him walk for nothing later...

Bengals - Blow Up - New everything, starting with coach and QB. Palmer is just awful and even his most staunch defenders are losing reasons after each week to support him. He's due franchise QB money next year, and he isn't worth it. Dump their headache veteran WRs too.

Bills - Build Up - They basically started rebuilding last year but just didn't have a new QB to pair with the efforts. Get a top young QB this year, let him sit as long as Fitzpatrick can keep playing reasonably well, and add talent wherever you can with the rest of your picks.

Panthers - Blow Up - Destroy this team. Take Andrew Luck #1 overall and go from there.

Lions - Build Up - They need to get Stafford healthy and keep him healthy...if they can do that, they could keep going right up. Their secondary is still awful as evidenced yesterday, and it's just one of their problems outside of keeping Stafford from getting hurt....but they're committed to this core of players, and need to keep at it.

Browns - Build Up - RB and OL seem strong, and Colt McCoy has been better than expected...but they could still use some WRs and basically a new everything in the front 7. Add talent however possible at those positions.
I think this has been a woefully undercovered aspect of the Vikings' recent decisions to completely mortgage their future for right now. They're not gonna blow it up. They'll trade for a vet QB in the offseason and try to do it all over again.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Broncos need to blow it up. McDaniels has done nothing good, he's taken us DRASTICALLY backwards in his 2 seasons. 2 Seasons ago, anyone would have called Denver a team on the rise. Now? Not so much.

He needs to be gone, we need to figure out what's up with Tebow ASAP, and make decisions based on that. The way things are going, we'll likely be in position to get a Locker or even a Luck, and IMO we need to find out if Tebow can even show a tiny flash. If he can't, we might need to write that one off, at least as a QB. It may sound crazy, IDD like even, but I think Tebow can be an effective player at another position if QB doesn't work out.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - build: They're too close and too young to blow it up.

Broncos - blow: They blew it up already, but it needs to happen again. McDaniels has blown all of his draft picks on garbage and the team doesn't have enough young talent to build on. First thing to be blown up: the coach. At the very least remove his GM power. The defense and GMing badly need to be in someone else's hands.

49ers - blow: They have a few pieces they need to keep, but most of that team needs to be retooled. Coaching staff, too.

Vikings - blow: This team is OLD. Unload all of those old men for whatever picks you can and start anew. Unfortunately for them, they'll do the opposite and they're going to pay with a Lionesque period of futility in the next decade.

Cardinals - blow: Team's done. Fitzgerald is getting ready to bail out. Trade him off for that extra 1st rounder + whatever.

Bengals - blow: Seriously. Like 90% of the team has to go.

Bills - build: They already started the blow up, so yeah.

Panthers - blow: So bad. So very bad.

Lions - build: Already had their blow up. Team's young and talented. It's going places.

Browns - build: Already went through the blow up.

Other teams that need a blowup: Jags, Skins, Bears. That's right. I say that two first place teams need to be blown up.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:47 PM    (permalink
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Broncos need to blow it up. McDaniels has done nothing good, he's taken us DRASTICALLY backwards in his 2 seasons. 2 Seasons ago, anyone would have called Denver a team on the rise. Now? Not so much.

He needs to be gone, we need to figure out what's up with Tebow ASAP, and make decisions based on that. The way things are going, we'll likely be in position to get a Locker or even a Luck, and IMO we need to find out if Tebow can even show a tiny flash. If he can't, we might need to write that one off, at least as a QB. It may sound crazy, IDD like even, but I think Tebow can be an effective player at another position if QB doesn't work out.
See that sounds a little excessive to me. You knew Tebow wouldn't be ready for major QB PT this year when they took him. So you can't make any judgements about his future this year. Like it or not you have to wait until next offseason and then see what he can do filling in for Orton next year. Keep building up the defense because I like a lot of the pieces on O if you're patient.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - build: They're too close and too young to blow it up.

Broncos - blow: They blew it up already, but it needs to happen again. McDaniels has blown all of his draft picks on garbage and the team doesn't have enough young talent to build on. First thing to be blown up: the coach. At the very least remove his GM power. The defense and GMing badly need to be in someone else's hands.

49ers - blow: They have a few pieces they need to keep, but most of that team needs to be retooled. Coaching staff, too.

Vikings - blow: This team is OLD. Unload all of those old men for whatever picks you can and start anew. Unfortunately for them, they'll do the opposite and they're going to pay with a Lionesque period of futility in the next decade.

Cardinals - blow: Team's done. Fitzgerald is getting ready to bail out. Trade him off for that extra 1st rounder + whatever.

Bengals - blow: Seriously. Like 90% of the team has to go.

Bills - build: They already started the blow up, so yeah.

Panthers - blow: So bad. So very bad.

Lions - build: Already had their blow up. Team's young and talented. It's going places.

Browns - build: Already went through the blow up.

Other teams that need a blowup: Jags, Skins, Bears. That's right. I say that two first place teams need to be blown up.
The Jags already blew it up once, they just need a new QB and more talent on D. And the Bears need to get an OL. They're not incredibly deep and are really dependent on a few players, but if they had a dependable OL they'd be annual playoff contenders.
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Old 11-26-2010, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Broncos need to blow it up. McDaniels has done nothing good, he's taken us DRASTICALLY backwards in his 2 seasons. 2 Seasons ago, anyone would have called Denver a team on the rise. Now? Not so much.

He needs to be gone, we need to figure out what's up with Tebow ASAP, and make decisions based on that. The way things are going, we'll likely be in position to get a Locker or even a Luck, and IMO we need to find out if Tebow can even show a tiny flash. If he can't, we might need to write that one off, at least as a QB. It may sound crazy, IDD like even, but I think Tebow can be an effective player at another position if QB doesn't work out.
I agree, but the problem is the Broncos have already blown it up. They got rid of their franchise QB and star WR and replaced them both with 1st round picks. Changed to the 3-4 defense. Tebow is also a project, i have to think McDaniels will get at least next year. I'd be surprised if McDaniels was fired this season, but i don't follow Denver closely. Is he on the hotseat?
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:07 PM    (permalink
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I agree, but the problem is the Broncos have already blown it up. They got rid of their franchise QB and star WR and replaced them both with 1st round picks. Changed to the 3-4 defense. Tebow is also a project, i have to think McDaniels will get at least next year. I'd be surprised if McDaniels was fired this season, but i don't follow Denver closely. Is he on the hotseat?
No idea, but he should be. He blew up something that in now way needed to be blown up. As for Tebow, he isn't ready, and I don't want to see him starting or anything, but give him a drive here and there. All we've seen him run are plays he ran at Florida. I want to see if he can make elementary reads, if he can throw the ball accurately. If he still looks lost out there, after a whole offseason, preseason, and 11+ weeks of regular season football, I question whether he'll ever get it. I'm not talking about him looking like Matt Ryan, or even Colt McCoy, but I want to make sure he doesn't look like Alex Smith. If he can string together a few first downs here and there, that's enough for me. But I don't want to be sitting there with a potential franchise QB on the board on draft day and be forced into passing on him because Tebow is a COMPLETE unknown. I want to know at least a little bit about him.

If Vince Young could do that in his rookie year, Tim Tebow should be able to do what I'm asking of him, which is much, much less.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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I agree that Josh McDaniels needs to be fired, or at the very minimum stripped of his personnel powers.

The man has single handedly blown the last year's worth of drafts for the Broncos and has left his roster bereft of talent when he could have had so much more with the number of draft picks he had in 2008 and 2009.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - Build up. I say this knowing Jerry would never blow it up anyway. He'll add pieces until it kind of works again.
Broncos - Build up. They have alot of young pieces on the team. No one knows if they are worth a darn yet. Sucks for McDaniels cause if it does work, he won't be there to find out.
49ers - Blow up. They have tried and tried and haven't been able to put the right parts together. They are more than a QB away from competing and to much of the team will be to old to help when they are competing. Keep the OLIne, everyone else is expendable.
Vikings - Blow up. I know it won't happen, but it needs to be done. They are nowhere near a SB contender with or w/o Favre. To many key positions are aging quickly. How much longer do they believe their window of opportunity will stay open?
Cardinals - Blow up. I guess I say blow up, but I don't know that there is much there to blow up. Trade FitzZzZ to the Chiefs.... then what? Is Docket signed long term?
Bengals - Blow up. Start with the ownership, then go to the management, then go to the coaching and finish on the roster. Complete overhaul needed. They have some very good talent in spots, but none of them will succeed in Cincy. Get value for them now.
Panthers - Build up. Kinda hard to blow up something that isn't there. DeAngelo leaves in FA. Steve Smith is getting really old. They have a young QB to try and build with.
Lions - Build up. Stafford has enough talent in his right arm to make this team a winner. He just needs to stay healthy and get it done. I'm not ready to give up him yet, but 1 more season w/o 15+ starts and i'm writing him off.
Browns - Build up. They are playing good ball and winning some games. They have the right idea of running with Hillis and playing defense. That will get them farther in their division than throwing the ball 50 times. I don't get to see enough of them to say that McCoy is the QB of the future, but adding a QB doesn't require blowing it up.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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We actually have a GM, Brian Xanders. He needs to be gone, too.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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They won't give up on McDaniels so quickly. I think when they drafted Tebow, they committed to McDaniels for at least another year or two. They've had a down year, but they don't have the defense they had last year. That's really hindered the overall progress of the team.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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They won't give up on McDaniels so quickly. I think when they drafted Tebow, they committed to McDaniels for at least another year or two. They've had a down year, but they don't have the defense they had last year. That's really hindered the overall progress of the team.
Well when you do stupid stuff like pass on Brian Orakpo for Knowshon Moreno in the draft, and trade away future first round picks to draft CBs like Alphonso Smith in the second round of the draft only to give him away for chump change...

That's ALL on McDaniels. McDaniels is a terrible drafter and is in the process of completeling mismanaging the Broncos roster.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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They won't give up on McDaniels so quickly. I think when they drafted Tebow, they committed to McDaniels for at least another year or two. They've had a down year, but they don't have the defense they had last year. That's really hindered the overall progress of the team.
His own damn fault for not doing anything about it AND just letting Mike Nolan walk out of there.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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His own damn fault for not doing anything about it AND just letting Mike Nolan walk out of there.
Not sure if he had much choice in Nolan leaving, but there wasn't anything he could do about Dumervil getting hurt.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if he had much choice in Nolan leaving, but there wasn't anything he could do about Dumervil getting hurt.
Dumervil being hurt is one thing, but quite frankly, if one player being out hurts our defense THAT much.... well that falls on him, too.
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Old 11-26-2010, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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The Jags already blew it up once, they just need a new QB and more talent on D. And the Bears need to get an OL. They're not incredibly deep and are really dependent on a few players, but if they had a dependable OL they'd be annual playoff contenders.
Ya, I don't see how they can blow it up when they're still in the process of blowing it up. They'll likely continue to release/let walk the aging vets they have left on the team (Mathis & Meester immediately come to mind).

They'll add a QBOTF this offseason and try to add pieces to the woeful secondary. The fact that they're in first right now speaks to how promising the young talent on the team is. Their starters over 30 are Garrard, Mathis, Meester, and Kampman and all but Kampman will be replaced at some point next year.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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Not sure if he had much choice in Nolan leaving, but there wasn't anything he could do about Dumervil getting hurt.
Fair enough re: Dumervil. That we had only one decent pass rusher is an error for which responsibility should be shared by Shanahan and McD.

As for Nolan, it was the dynamics between him and McD that led to him leaving. So now McD is surrounded by weak / inexperience coaches. This same idea extends to the FO, where Xanders ousted the Goodmans. Pretty much anyone with real experience is gone, leaving the kids to make decisions. I'd be much more comfortable with McD if he was guided by a veteran GM and had solid veterans at the OC and DC spots.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:22 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - Build up. Talented team that just needs better coaching and an improved running game.

Broncos - blow up the defense. It's old and has been getting wrecked this year.

49ers - build up. They're a good coaching staff away, in my opinion.

Vikings - blow up. Very old team that needs to get younger and needs a franchise QB. Remains to be seen whether Frazier is the man for the job.

Cardinals - build up. Need a pass-rush and franchise quarterback. They get that, and they're killing their division.
Bengals - blow up. Bring in a new quarterback and coaching staff. Defense needs work too.

Bills - blow up the defense, build the offense.

Panthers - somewhere in between build up and blow up. Need some improvements along the offensive line, need a QB and a new head coach.

Lions - build up. Franchise quarterback is already on the roster, barring another injury. Improve the secondary and running game and this is a dangerous team
Browns - build up.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:26 PM    (permalink
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Look back at the 2009 NFL Draft. McDaniels was sitting there with the #11 pick, knowing he needed to draft a pass rusher (because he selected Ayers later on with another first round pick) - but instead he blows a high pick on a skill position by selecting Knowshon Moreno.

A smart GM would have spent the #11 pick on the consensus top pass rushing defensive lineman (Orakpo) and then used the second first round pick on a running back, if need be.

If he had done that, they wouldn't be in this situation with the injury to Dumervil because, most likely, Orakpo would have been able to pick up the slack better than Ayers has.

And of course, if he hadn't traded away Peyton Hillis for chump change, he might actually have a running game to complement Orton.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:32 PM    (permalink
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Cowboys - Build up. I say this knowing Jerry would never blow it up anyway. He'll add pieces until it kind of works again.
Broncos - Build up. They have alot of young pieces on the team. No one knows if they are worth a darn yet. Sucks for McDaniels cause if it does work, he won't be there to find out.
49ers - Blow up. They have tried and tried and haven't been able to put the right parts together. They are more than a QB away from competing and to much of the team will be to old to help when they are competing. Keep the OLIne, everyone else is expendable.
Vikings - Blow up. I know it won't happen, but it needs to be done. They are nowhere near a SB contender with or w/o Favre. To many key positions are aging quickly. How much longer do they believe their window of opportunity will stay open?
Cardinals - Blow up. I guess I say blow up, but I don't know that there is much there to blow up. Trade FitzZzZ to the Chiefs.... then what? Is Docket signed long term?
Bengals - Blow up. Start with the ownership, then go to the management, then go to the coaching and finish on the roster. Complete overhaul needed. They have some very good talent in spots, but none of them will succeed in Cincy. Get value for them now.
Panthers - Build up. Kinda hard to blow up something that isn't there. DeAngelo leaves in FA. Steve Smith is getting really old. They have a young QB to try and build with.
Lions - Build up. Stafford has enough talent in his right arm to make this team a winner. He just needs to stay healthy and get it done. I'm not ready to give up him yet, but 1 more season w/o 15+ starts and i'm writing him off.
Browns - Build up. They are playing good ball and winning some games. They have the right idea of running with Hillis and playing defense. That will get them farther in their division than throwing the ball 50 times. I don't get to see enough of them to say that McCoy is the QB of the future, but adding a QB doesn't require blowing it up.
Holy ****, somebody that actually watches football.

For the Panthers to 'blow up' their team they'd have to trade or release a ton of young players. This is a very young team that's missing a few components; namely a DT that can push the pocket and an O-line that can block (though there are several nice pieces on it, should Otah ever decide he wants to stop eating cheetos and start playing football again).

This isn't a veteran laden team that's playing poorly. This is a young, talented team that's shockingly coached.
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:36 PM    (permalink
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I do believe that McDaniels was ill prepared for that first draft but I thought this last draft was great. The OL has pieces that if healthy and given time to grow together could become elite, they added a potential #1 WR with great character and work ethic and they added a QB who, while polarizing, has massive potential, great work ethic and character. They've blown up that offense and created a new culture in the lockerroom that will help them get the most out of young players now and in the future.

Now the D still needs a lot of work as they're built around a number of aging vets, but there's some pieces to work with in place, ayers and doom, and those vets will help teach young players they bring, especially since I see them going almost all D this year.

As for Moreno, I liked him as a prospect although I didn't like him that high and he looked awful his first year but the few times I've seen the broncos this year Moreno's looked pretty good out there and he is a very versatile and intelligent back if he can become as effective as he was in the SEC. Intelligence is another thing they've done to boost their locker room, they've gotten hard working, high character guys and they've gotten a lot of smart guys...and tebow...
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Old 11-26-2010, 04:40 PM    (permalink
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Now the D still needs a lot of work as they're built around a number of aging vets, but there's some pieces to work with in place and those vets will help teach young players they bring, especially since I see them going almost all D this year.
The Alphonso Smith move in 2009 killed McDaniels. It was one of the stupidest things he could do for the future health of his franchise: trading a first round pick in 2010 for a second round pick in 2009, all for a player who has been let go after a single year.

If he had kept that pick in 2010, he would have had the #14 pick, which the Seahawks used to select Earl Thomas. You don't think McDaniels could have used a player like Earl Thomas in his secondary?

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As for Moreno, I liked him as a prospect although I didn't like him that high and he looked awful his first year but the few times I've seen the broncos this year Moreno's looked pretty good out there and he is a very versatile and intelligent back. Intelligence is another thing they've done to boost their locker room, they've gotten hard working, high character guys and they've gotten a lot of smart guys...and tebow...
Regardless of how good of a player Moreno eventually turns out to be - you simply don't draft a running back that high when talented defensive line prospects are #1) needed on your team and #2) readily available (Orakpo). The fact that he had a second first round pick that year makes it even worse because he could have easily waited for Moreno to drop to his lower pick, or could have settled on any number of decents backs in the draft that year like McCoy or Brown, or whatever.
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