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Old 11-29-2010, 11:18 AM    (permalink
AntoinCD
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
It is not my fault it is a fact. Brady has all day to throw behind his line the majority of the time. The only times he really hasn't were against the Ravens, Chargers, and the first half against the Lions.
I'd add in the Dolphins too. Against the Colts he had 4 deep drops that weren't play action.

Another problem Manning has(including injuries and the fact he's having a down year) is the fact the play calling is verging on ********. If you have no offensive line and your receiving options are wafer thin, why continuously make your QB take 7 step drops???
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:19 AM    (permalink
Gay Ork Wang
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Originally Posted by Jvig43 View Post
Haha Dan Connolly, Matt light, to the pro bowl. I'm pretty sure Brady has still been sacked more then Manning to, but hey it's cool to state opinion as fact.
just cause brady gets sacked more doesnt mean his OLine is worse.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
It is not my fault it is a fact. Brady has all day to throw behind his line the majority of the time. The only times he really hasn't were against the Ravens, Chargers, and the first half against the Lions.
Indy has allowed 12 sacks. New England 15. Manning's been hit 37 times. Brady's been hit 35 times.

ZOMGZ LOOK AT ALL THE TIME BRADY HAS!
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I'd add in the Dolphins too. Against the Colts he had 4 deep drops that weren't play action.

Another problem Manning has(including injuries and the fact he's having a down year) is the fact the play calling is verging on ********. If you have no offensive line and your receiving options are wafer thin, why continuously make your QB take 7 step drops???
Against the Dolphins he had time on most of his dropsbacks but there were a handful when Wake was on him.

And the Colts don't really call a lot of 7 step drops, it just looks like it because the offensive line lets people through so quickly.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:22 AM    (permalink
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The Colts will still make the playoffs. The AFC South has become a mediocre division with the Titans falling apart, the Jags being a solid but not spectacular team, and the Texans being all flash and no substance.

The bottom line is 2 teams own Peyton Manning. The Patriots, and the Chargers. You can get in Peyton Manning's head, and those 2 teams have gotten in his head.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Indy has allowed 12 sacks. New England 15. Manning's been hit 37 times. Brady's been hit 35 times.

ZOMGZ LOOK AT ALL THE TIME BRADY HAS!
So much wrong with this post I don't know where to start

1. Sacks are not a good measure of how much time as QB has to throw. If a QB holds onto the ball forever and then gets sacked it is not his offensive lines fault. Or if he avoids pressure that the offensive line gave up then his offensive line is not good.

2. Hits are also not a good measure of how much time a QB has to throw. See above. Also hits are not an official stat. I think they showed a stat that Manning was hit 5 times all of last night but I must have been watching a different game because he was on the ground seemingly after every play.

3. If you are trying to say that the Colts offensive line is anywhere near as good as the Patriots then I am not gonna argue with you, it isn't worth it.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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So what is a good measure for an OL for you? Whatever method you damn well please to praise Peyton and heap blame on everyone else? It doesn't work like that.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by hockey619 View Post
They went 11-5 (still playoff bound most years) with their backup qb who hadnt started a football game in 5 years in a division that i already said was much better than the year before.

And thats not what anyone reasonably would say its just how you like to twist and interpret it because it fits your argument. Collie and Addai are definitely better than Brown and the merry go round of wr fill ins they are using now, theyre not all world but they are certainly serviceable.

Youre the only person who thinks youre arugment is reasonable right now, everyone w/o an agenda (Jvig) think your being a huge hater. But no, everyone else is wrong and youre right.
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80
There is a reason why every receiver or tight end the Colts draft turns out to be good and the ones the Patriots drafted don't and that reason is simple, Peyton can up the game of any receiver while Brady needs good receivers to up his game.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...lie%3B+manning

You're right. I'm the unreasonable one.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
So what is a good measure for an OL for you? Whatever method you damn well please to praise Peyton and heap blame on everyone else? It doesn't work like that.
Stats are serious business
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...lie%3B+manning

You're right. I'm the unreasonable one.
So, that was fun while it lasted.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by yourfavestoner View Post
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...lie%3B+manning

You're right. I'm the unreasonable one.

hahaha im not gunna take credit for the crap he spews, i think you and sniper clearly dont like manning and couldnt care less if what youre saying is reasonable or not. Abandon has a hard on for manning.

There we go, end of thread, pretty much sums everything up anyway.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
So what is a good measure for an OL for you? Whatever method you damn well please to praise Peyton and heap blame on everyone else? It doesn't work like that.
I wish there was a site where it'd tell the average time it takes him to throw when he drops back to the pocket. That'll probably be the best indicator of how good the oline is. I mean Big Ben gets hit a ton but in no way are the steeler's line worst than the colts. The biggest problem the colts have aren't the WR or manning. It's that ****** online and RB and their inability to form any semblance of a rushing attack. I mean anyone who plays the colts can just pull their ears back and rush the colts because there's no need to fear that crappy rushing attack. And let's not make Addai to be a world beater here but compared to that POS they have playing, he looks like barry sanders.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
Indy has allowed 12 sacks. New England 15. Manning's been hit 37 times. Brady's been hit 35 times.

ZOMGZ LOOK AT ALL THE TIME BRADY HAS!

This is interesting considering how much more Manning has thrown this year than Brady. Even if both throw a lot of quick passes to nuetralize the rush youd think the fact that he throws more would mean Manning gets hit more. Then again stats are kinda useless imo and i dont think either of these is kept officially or anything. Where did you find these?
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Sniper View Post
So what is a good measure for an OL for you? Whatever method you damn well please to praise Peyton and heap blame on everyone else? It doesn't work like that.
Watching them.

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There is a reason why every receiver or tight end the Colts draft turns out to be good and the ones the Patriots drafted don't and that reason is simple, Peyton can up the game of any receiver while Brady needs good receivers to up his game.
http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...lie%3B+manning

You're right. I'm the unreasonable one.
I don't see what your point is. I do think that Manning makes his receivers better and I also don't think that they are bad, just meh. But it doesn't matter because he does not have time to throw them the ball.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I wish there was a site where it'd tell the average time it takes him to throw when he drops back to the pocket. That'll probably be the best indicator of how good the oline is. I mean Big Ben gets hit a ton but in no way are the steeler's line worst than the colts. The biggest problem the colts have aren't the WR or manning. It's that ****** online and RB and their inability to form any semblance of a rushing attack. I mean anyone who plays the colts can just pull their ears back and rush the colts because there's no need to fear that crappy rushing attack. And let's not make Addai to be a world beater here but compared to that POS they have playing, he looks like barry sanders.
For some reason, most teams haven't figured out that if you do that, you'll beat the Colts. Just look at the Saints in the Superbowl: Gregg Williams knows Peyton probably as well as any DC in the league from the time he spent with Tennessee and Jacksonville. He all but conceded the run game in the first half of the Superbowl. Addai was gashing them because the Saints were pass rushing on every play.

What happened in the second half? The brilliant coach on the field completely abandoned his own running game. Occasionally, you'll see him stick with it (like the game against the Giants this year), but more often than not, he'll get impatient and completely abandon it.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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Imagine it's not Peyton Manning but Jimmy Clausen(who has a worse supporting cast) who threw 7 INTs in his last two games. It's easier to criticise him than The Peyton Manning.
For all the fuss being made about the amount of interceptions he has still only thrown 11 compared to Drew Brees 15 who also has a 4int game on the year. His TD:INT ratio is still at 2:1 where your comparrison is at 1:5
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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This is interesting considering how much more Manning has thrown this year than Brady. Even if both throw a lot of quick passes to nuetralize the rush youd think the fact that he throws more would mean Manning gets hit more. Then again stats are kinda useless imo and i dont think either of these is kept officially or anything. Where did you find these?
NFL.com under "Offensive line stats".

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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Watching them.
Yes, watching them through Peyton-tinted glasses is a great comparison.

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I don't see what your point is.
The point is that you used a sad excuse to justify taking Manning over Brady, and now that your reasoning clashes with your excuses, you're not quite sure how to react.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Yes, watching them through Peyton-tinted glasses is a great comparison.
I don't know why everyone thinks I love Peyton or something. I am a 49er fan. Just because I think Manning is better than Brady it must be because I am biased? That makes no sense.

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The point is that you used a sad excuse to justify taking Manning over Brady, and now that your reasoning clashes with your excuses, you're not quite sure how to react.
How does anything I said clash with what I am saying now? I still do think that Manning elevates the level of those around him, his offensive line included. I also don't think that the receivers and tight ends he is throwing to now are that bad. But there is only so much he can do. He can get rid of the ball in <2 seconds into a window created by very little separation that not many other quarterbacks would even attempt but if he has 1 second to throw or gets hit as he is releasing it it doesn't matter.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:50 AM    (permalink
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yeah cause when Brady was out the whole year they.....oh wait, they played just fine despite the team being significantly worse on defense that year in a better division.
The 2007 Patriots defense gave up 17.1 points per game and 288 yards per game. The 2008 Patriots gave up 19.3 points per game and 309 yards per game. I wouldn't call 2.2 points and 20 yards per game significantly worse.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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For some reason, most teams haven't figured out that if you do that, you'll beat the Colts. Just look at the Saints in the Superbowl: Gregg Williams knows Peyton probably as well as any DC in the league from the time he spent with Tennessee and Jacksonville. He all but conceded the run game in the first half of the Superbowl. Addai was gashing them because the Saints were pass rushing on every play.

What happened in the second half? The brilliant coach on the field completely abandoned his own running game. Occasionally, you'll see him stick with it (like the game against the Giants this year), but more often than not, he'll get impatient and completely abandon it.

His biggest weakness as a player i think, and why the pats and chargers have been able to get him. If you wait him out he'll eventually start trying to pass unless his run game is going nuts. If you stop his running backs a few times in a row he'll bail on it as soon as he can.

Dude wants to throw and be aggressive, not take his time, so outwaiting him is easy, and once you have, all you gotta do is throw some crazy random crap at him and the line to get a little pressure in their and youve got him. Granted, their run game is atrocious but some of that is play design, they need to stop that ******* stretch play, i hate watching it it sucks 9 outta 10 times, i dont get why they dont just run more of a power I or something so that the line doesnt have to hold its blocks as long. seems very common sense to me.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:55 AM    (permalink
Halsey
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The Patriots dropped of in 2008. They went from 18-1 to 11-5. People forget how good the Patriots were when claiming they played just fine without Brady.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:03 PM    (permalink
hockey619
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The 2007 Patriots defense gave up 17.1 points per game and 288 yards per game. The 2008 Patriots gave up 19.3 points per game and 309 yards per game. I wouldn't call 2.2 points and 20 yards per game significantly worse.
Looking at the games though they were very inconsistent, having games where they shut teams down and others (miami) where they got totally rocked (as YFS said, by a team that was 1-15 the year before).

It averaged out alright but i remember them being very up and down at the time too, just werent very good.

The next year (2009), with a very similar team and Tom Brady back, they ended the year with one less win in an even tougher division.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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His biggest weakness as a player i think, and why the pats and chargers have been able to get him. If you wait him out he'll eventually start trying to pass unless his run game is going nuts. If you stop his running backs a few times in a row he'll bail on it as soon as he can.

Dude wants to throw and be aggressive, not take his time, so outwaiting him is easy, and once you have, all you gotta do is throw some crazy random crap at him and the line to get a little pressure in their and youve got him. Granted, their run game is atrocious but some of that is play design, they need to stop that ******* stretch play, i hate watching it it sucks 9 outta 10 times, i dont get why they dont just run more of a power I or something so that the line doesnt have to hold its blocks as long. seems very common sense to me.
That was their bread and butter a few years ago. Always good for at least 4 yards almost every play. I don't know if it's Addai and Brown not being decisive and hitting the holes or that the linemen aren't as athletic to get out and block but it's a major problem but used to be a staple of their attack.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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That was their bread and butter a few years ago. Always good for at least 4 yards almost every play. I don't know if it's Addai and Brown not being decisive and hitting the holes or that the linemen aren't as athletic to get out and block but it's a major problem but used to be a staple of their attack.
Teams have adjusted to it, though. I think they need to bring in a sledgehammer of a FB. I know it doesn't suit their speed style, but at this point, why not give it a shot? Run more I-formation plays.
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Old 11-29-2010, 12:07 PM    (permalink
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Teams have adjusted to it, though. I think they need to bring in a sledgehammer of a FB. I know it doesn't suit their speed style, but at this point, why not give it a shot? Run more I-formation plays.
Definitely worth it but I think they need a new OC. Saturday just isn't that good in a phonebooth. What ever happened to Mike Pollack who was meant to be a replacement for him?
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