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Old 12-17-2010, 09:56 PM    (permalink
Bengalsrocket
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Eh, I think Palmer is getting beat up here a lot more than he deserves. He's not a top 10 talent anymore, not even a top 15 talent. But eventually the Bengals are going to drop him and when they do, another team will sign him.

When that happens, people will realize just how terrible the Bengals offensive gameplan, scheme and effort really is. I'm not saying he's going to light the world up, but I think he could do better than this with ease on a different team.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:24 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
Also, everyone who keeps saying "Arizona" - you have to realize that I think the Cardinals have found their QB of the future in John Skelton.

Kid can play. Has a rocket for an arm, and I think Whisenhunt will develop him into a top 10 passer.
Skelton's playing because there are literally no other options. Whisenhunt basically said so himself. He's not even close to ready.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Morton View Post
Dude, something's wrong with his arm. He has ZERO zip on the ball. If you've watched him play this year, you'd realize that he simply cannot throw at a requisite velocity to be an NFL starter any more.
Strangely, I've seen every game he's played this season. Guy can still get zip on the ball, not sure where you're coming from with that one. It's not what it used to be, but that's expected after you hit 30. His zip isn't the problem, the fact that his receivers run the wrong routes leads to far more Int's. He's forcing a lot of throws because his receivers aren't where they are supposed to be (and he tends to neglect a LB or Safety here and there.)

Also, I never said he was a good starter. I said he'd be back next season. I know the Bengals organization pretty damn well, they rarely do anything that surprises me. It would shock me to see them actually shop Palmer with so much uncertainty with their coaching. Mike Brown doesn't have the football mind to do too many things at once. A dramatic overhaul for us would be letting a few free agents walk and signing one or two players.

I really feel bad for Carson, he wasn't the problem this year. Considering he was on offense, he was part of the problem. Our gameplans were the worst in the league this year by far, just non-existent. One good thing T.O. did was call out the coaching staff.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:11 PM    (permalink
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the fact that his receivers run the wrong routes leads to far more Int's. He's forcing a lot of throws because his receivers aren't where they are supposed to be
You're just gonna fight this to the death, aren't you? How do you know where his WRs are supposed to be if you aren't in the huddle hearing the play that's being called, or what's being audibled?
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:18 PM    (permalink
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You're just gonna fight this to the death, aren't you? How do you know where his WRs are supposed to be if you aren't in the huddle hearing the play that's being called, or what's being audibled?
Our radio announcers and ex-players all say that the WR routes are messed up. They would know better that us so that is where we get out info from.
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Old 12-17-2010, 11:23 PM    (permalink
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You're just gonna fight this to the death, aren't you? How do you know where his WRs are supposed to be if you aren't in the huddle hearing the play that's being called, or what's being audibled?
The fact that they own up to it after the fact helps my case. The Indy game each receiver took the blame. That was nice of them. You can watch T.O. give up on passes yourself, passes that wind up in the hands of defenders due to a lack of effort.

If you're actually half-way interested in the subject, watch a little film or do a little research.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/201...ngles-are-back

- Great article which helps put a finger on some of the Bengals biggest issues. Most of the quotes in the article come from NFL personnel not fans like myself. It felt great reading that article because it gave me the "finally, someone gets it" sensation.

A quote to save you a couple minutes...

Quote:
"The two receivers (Ochocinco and Owens) are killing them," the talent evaluator said bluntly.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:47 AM    (permalink
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Nobody will give up a pick because he'll likely be cut next year. I still think he could be pretty good to decent with a change of scenery and some good coaching, but he's at an all-time low right now and it's time for both and and the Bengals to move on.
This.

I think he'd like Arizona...the warmer climate could do his arm some good too ala Pennington going to Miami.

Palmer is the new Chad Pennington...the guy who woulda/coulda/shoulda but didn't...since he's more physically gifted than Pennington I think he can catch on in an offense like Arizona's...the Vikings would be really interesting too...both are veteran offenses too...I don't think either one would be happy to have to baby a QB while trying to win in their prime years...
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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This.

I think he'd like Arizona...the warmer climate could do his arm some good too ala Pennington going to Miami.

Palmer is the new Chad Pennington...the guy who woulda/coulda/shoulda but didn't...since he's more physically gifted than Pennington I think he can catch on in an offense like Arizona's...the Vikings would be really interesting too...both are veteran offenses too...I don't think either one would be happy to have to baby a QB while trying to win in their prime years...
Are either the Vikings or Cardinals in their "prime years"?

Both teams need a full-scale rebuild, to be honest.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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I highly doubt anyone gives up a 2nd. I think a 3rd is pushin it unless you're desperate for a QB ala AZ/MN
Seattle gave up a 2nd for Chuck Whitehurst didn't they?
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Eh, I think Palmer is getting beat up here a lot more than he deserves. He's not a top 10 talent anymore, not even a top 15 talent. But eventually the Bengals are going to drop him and when they do, another team will sign him.

When that happens, people will realize just how terrible the Bengals offensive gameplan, scheme and effort really is. I'm not saying he's going to light the world up, but I think he could do better than this with ease on a different team.
Thats pretty unbiased for a guy with Palmer in his avy, lol.
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Seattle gave up a 2nd for Chuck Whitehurst didn't they?
They let San Diego move up in the 2nd round a few slots in 2010, AND they sent a 2011 third round pick.

So basically, they only shipped San Diego a third round pick for Whitehurst.
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:07 AM    (permalink
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Seattle gave up a 2nd for Chuck Whitehurst didn't they?
nope 3rd rounder and switched 2nd rounders
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Old 12-18-2010, 11:12 AM    (permalink
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I agree with Bengals fans who think Palmer will be back next year (unless they have the #1 pick and the chance to draft Andrew Luck), but I also feel really bad for them. Dude's terrible. People are quick to blame any interceptions on anyone besides the guy who's throwing them, but he racks up all of his yards/touchdowns in garbage time after him and his team have already blown the game and I don't see anyone talking about that. He's had a solid career but it's really in their best interests to go in another direction when they can. These days in the NFL, teams don't get it done without strong quarterbacks, and one thing almost every bad team in the NFL (besides the Texans with Schaub) has in common is poor quarterback play.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I think he starts while they develop a first round QB next year. If they're picking #2, they'll have the most pressure on them of any team in the NFL to make the right choice between Mallett, Newton, and Locker.

Palmer deserves to stay in Cincy as long as he wants to continue to play football. Sure, he needs to be replaced as the starter, but he's also earned the right to decide when and on what terms he departs from Cincinnati.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Palmer deserves to stay in Cincy as long as he wants to continue to play football. Sure, he needs to be replaced as the starter, but he's also earned the right to decide when and on what terms he departs from Cincinnati.
Yeah, no he hasn't.......

McNabb had done infinitely more in Philly than Carson ever has in Cincy, and he was traded unceremoniously out of town.

Do people really look at Carson and still see the 2005 version who looked like the next NFL franchise QB? Because he's not that guy...not even close.

And you can blame everyone else within that entire franchise for his issues, but for as long as you keep him, you're dooming yourself to failure and mediocrity at best. He needs to move on, and they need him to move on. But a whole host of outside factors may very well keep it from happening and will basically hamstring that franchise for as long as he is allowed to remain starter.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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I'm saying if he wants to stay as a back-up, you let him. If he wants to leave, work something out with him. The McNabb situation was completely different. Most people like Carson Palmer. He's not a controversial guy.
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Old 12-18-2010, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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I think Brown will be too stubborn to give up on him now.
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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I'm saying if he wants to stay as a back-up, you let him. If he wants to leave, work something out with him. The McNabb situation was completely different. Most people like Carson Palmer. He's not a controversial guy.
He's far too expensive for a backup. And I would definitely argue that McNabb was a very likable guy too....I personally thought he was rather overrated on the field for most of his Philly career, but as a person, he was a good guy and the media loved him.

Players with far greater ties to their current team have been forced out unwillingly, if the team decides (and they should) to clean house, then I see no reason why you keep him. Especially if you have a shot at one of the top QBs int he draft, which they may.
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Old 12-18-2010, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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He's far too expensive for a backup. And I would definitely argue that McNabb was a very likable guy too....I personally thought he was rather overrated on the field for most of his Philly career, but as a person, he was a good guy and the media loved him.

Players with far greater ties to their current team have been forced out unwillingly, if the team decides (and they should) to clean house, then I see no reason why you keep him. Especially if you have a shot at one of the top QBs in the draft, which they may.
Agree 100%, and that cleaning house needs to start with the head coach.

Palmer will end up in Seattle, Arizona, or the Bay Area. The Left Coast somewhere. I'd hate to see him end up in Minny and find his 2005 form again.
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Old 12-18-2010, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...in-cincinnati/

It doesn't look like Palmer would be willing to take a paycut to stay if asked. $11.5 million for the player he is now just isn't worth it to me....

Personally, I'd let Benson and TO go, and I wouldn't pick up the option on Ocho's contract. Then, I'd try to trade Carson (unlikely) and if (when) no takers came forth, I'd cut him. Draft the best available QB with the first rounder, and rebuild.

The defense has talented pieces. They have some good, young, talented players scattered about it. They have a nice set of corners when healthy too. Build your team around that defense, develop a rookie QB, and go with some young talents like Shipley and Gresham on offense.

It wouldn't be a one year rebuild, but if someone can get that defense playing up to it's potential, they could definitely be competitive until they get the offense up to speed.

Another year of Carson and the skill position jokers around him is just going to ****** the teams development and push back how long it would take them to be competitive once again.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:36 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BeerBaron View Post
Personally, I'd let Benson and TO go, and I wouldn't pick up the option on Ocho's contract. Then, I'd try to trade Carson (unlikely) and if (when) no takers came forth, I'd cut him. Draft the best available QB with the first rounder, and rebuild.
Man, that offense would look TERRIBLE.


QB: Mallett
RB: Bernard Scott
TE: Jermaine Gresham
WR: Jordan Shipley
WR: Andrew Caldwell
WR: Jerome Simpson

I'm sure they would look at FA, but Cinci isn't exactly a rocking place or team that would pay a ton. Maybe they could get one of the Dolphin RBs and pick up another rookie WR, but still, ouch.
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Old 12-18-2010, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
Man, that offense would look TERRIBLE.

QB: Mallett
RB: Bernard Scott
TE: Jermaine Gresham
WR: Jordan Shipley
WR: Andrew Caldwell
WR: Jerome Simpson

I'm sure they would look at FA, but Cinci isn't exactly a rocking place or team that would pay a ton. Maybe they could get one of the Dolphin RBs and pick up another rookie WR, but still, ouch.
Most teams who'll be picking in the top 3-5 aren't very pretty talent wise....The Rams Sam Bradford stepped into had Stephen Jackson and.....?? I think he'd love a Shipley or a Gresham.

Plus, look at the players the Bengals could retain. TO, Benson, Ocho.......blegh. I'd rather start over with less talent than deal with them any longer.

(cue some Bengals fan defending them....)
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Shane P. Hallam View Post
Man, that offense would look TERRIBLE.


QB: Mallett
RB: Bernard Scott
TE: Jermaine Gresham
WR: Jordan Shipley
WR: Andrew Caldwell
WR: Jerome Simpson

I'm sure they would look at FA, but Cinci isn't exactly a rocking place or team that would pay a ton. Maybe they could get one of the Dolphin RBs and pick up another rookie WR, but still, ouch.
Ya. I don't think they let Carson go just yet. Maybe after 2011. And they need Benson.

I don't hate their WR situation without TO or Ocho. I'd keep Ocho around, but that might not be so easy with a bit of a rebuilding year...he could force his way out - and I wouldn't blame him.

Shipley's been good, Gresham is going to be really good, Caldwell showed he can be good... They just need an outside deep threat since Simpson hasn't proven himself.

I'm not even a big fan of firing Lewis, but something has to be done.
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:09 PM    (permalink
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Ya. I don't think they let Carson go just yet. Maybe after 2011. And they need Benson.

I don't hate their WR situation without TO or Ocho. I'd keep Ocho around, but that might not be so easy with a bit of a rebuilding year...he could force his way out - and I wouldn't blame him.

Shipley's been good, Gresham is going to be really good, Caldwell showed he can be good... They just need an outside deep threat since Simpson hasn't proven himself.

I'm not even a big fan of firing Lewis, but something has to be done.
So...you'd keep this potential 2-3 win team in tact? Keep Carson, Benson, Ocho and maybe even Lewis?

I'd shake it up before this dead horse starts to stink.
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Old 12-18-2010, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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Also, everyone who keeps saying "Arizona" - you have to realize that I think the Cardinals have found their QB of the future in John Skelton.

Kid can play. Has a rocket for an arm, and I think Whisenhunt will develop him into a top 10 passer.
while I do think Skelton is the QB going forward a good vet is what we need a conditional 4th should be what the Bengals get in return for Palmer
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