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Old 04-26-2011, 06:15 PM    (permalink
keylime_5
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IMO it's Jones, Quinn, or Fairley at #6. Peterson and Green will be gone I think.
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Old 04-26-2011, 09:22 PM    (permalink
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Plenty of rumors out there about a Vikings-Browns trade, with the Browns moving up from the second and giving up their 2012 first. Here's a link.

What do you guys think about this?
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Old 04-26-2011, 10:31 PM    (permalink
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Plenty of rumors out there about a Vikings-Browns trade, with the Browns moving up from the second and giving up their 2012 first. Here's a link.

What do you guys think about this?
A.J. and J.J. ?

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Old 04-26-2011, 10:39 PM    (permalink
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I'm usually not one for leveraging the future after seeing what went down with the Brady Quinn move.

Target the the high second round version of whatever you want to draft at 12 and hold on to the 1st. You know, if any of this actually has a shot of happening.

You guarantee me AJ and JJ lol, then its on.
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Old 04-27-2011, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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I'd also take two defensive lineman in that scenario. Course one of them being Watt but then Fairley or Quinn or Liuget. Then the best WR available in the 3rd.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:47 AM    (permalink
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I think Quinn will slide, although his brain tumour is gone, the doctors are indicating that it can return, I doubt we take a shot at #6.
Our pick will be between Jones and Fairley, Jones is the slightly higher ranked player and fits a WCO to a tee, so I'm guessing he will be the pick at #6.
Forget Peterson and Green, they won't reach us.

Why would we want Watt, he a 3-4 DE and we are switching to a 4-3.
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Old 04-27-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
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There is zero chance we make a trade up. We already have one of the lowest # of draft picks on our roster among all NFL teams due to ridiculous drafting and ugly trades. We aren't in any position to give up picks if we have any intention of ever becoming a contending team.
Give up our 2nd this year and our 1st next year, we might as well carve a seat at the top 5 draft table for the next 5 years.
These types of rumours appear every year and almost never see the light of day and that is where this rumour belongs.
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Old 04-27-2011, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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^^^Agreed. If we're talkin trade with Minny its about us movin down.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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I keep hearing on 850am that there may or may not be a deal with the Pats working. Our 6th, for the Pats 17th and 28th.

I'd not consider doing it if one of the 4 elite talents are there.

But if the Pats would still want that deal otherwise I'd have to think hard about it. 17, 28, and 37 sounds awesome in a deep draft however I think Julio may very well be TO with less diva.

I'm torn whether I'd actually do it, but if it happened I wouldn't be upset at all.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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I'd take that trade in a heartbeat. I'd look like Hillis plowing and stiff arming my way to the phones. 3 of the first 37 would be spectacular
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:05 PM    (permalink
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How you guys like the trade?
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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How you guys like the trade?
We trade down to stockpile and I can at least deal with it.

The trading of the stockpile to move up 6 spots I hate.



About the Falcons, you guys better be ready to roll with what you have for several years. You will be pretty empty for a while.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:54 PM    (permalink
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Love the trade. Extra 1st, 2nd, and two extra 4th round picks. We are a young rebuilding team that needs all the talent it can get, and we have to build via the draft. Atlanta is gonna be a scary offense with Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez, Michael Turner, and Matt Ryan. That 1st round pick next year will be in the 25-32 range. Everybody wins.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.
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Old 04-29-2011, 12:49 AM    (permalink
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I loved the trade. Curious move trading back up for Taylor tho. Rubin's still under contract right? Maybe we have our version of the Williams wall, or Goose/Sam Adams front. Gonna be hard to run against us
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Old 04-29-2011, 07:51 AM    (permalink
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What did the Browns trade with Kansas or the 21st pick?
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Old 04-29-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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their 3rd rounder.
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
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Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.
Belichick has not had a problem identifying talent in the 2nd round range. I'd rather have more picks in the second than high first picks. It also gives us leverage to go way up next year if we like a key guy.

Solid trade and initially looks good for both. I also like getting Taylor. I've been saying since I first scouted him that he'd actually be better in a 43 than 34. It gives us two solid two gappers to kick off the new defense-it's what Jauron's D in Chicago was like. The only thing I don't like is that KC forced us to give up our 3rd to get him when Baldwin was probably really their guy-oh well, that's the game.

In the 2nd I'd love us to target WR Greg Little and either Jabaal Sheard, Aaron Williams, or Ras I Dowling. Maby even a RT like Jah Reid. Brooks Reed works too.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Looks OK on paper till you realize that by the 27 pick, you are in reality looking at round 2 talent and it will get even worse next year when Atlanta uses Jones to finish in the 29-32 range.
So in reality, we got 2 second round talents, a 3rd round talent and 2 fifth round talents.
Where are you going to find impact players which every contender has that late in the draft. Likely we are looking at 3 rather average starters and not much more.
Ugh and more Ugh.
If you have a good GM, you get 1st round talent out of the first round, no matter where you pick. It's about projecting how the player performs through their career, not who has the most "upside."

I think Heckert is a good GM and knows how to work the draft. I love the trade, although I did want Julio. I didn't like the pick much last night, but I've definitely started to come around now that I've done a little more research on Phil.

I think this is the nicest response I can muster. In general, I never see eye-to-eye with you IAC, and your negativity never ceases to amaze me.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:35 PM    (permalink
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I like the thought of getting Bowers in the 2nd. That's a massive chip he'd be entering the league with. Hankerson or Little after that would be perfect! It will prob be OT though.
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I like the thought of getting Bowers in the 2nd. That's a massive chip he'd be entering the league with. Hankerson or Little after that would be perfect! It will prob be OT though.
I'm pretty worried about Bowers. How bad must that knee be to have fallen from sure Top 5 to out of the 1st Round? I know the 2nd is the time to gamble on massive talents with question marks, but I just don't know that our team is good enough to spare a second round pick. I'd feel a lot better with Brooks Reed if we are talking only about DE's.

We shall see though...
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Old 04-29-2011, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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I was at first a bit surprised with both the trades. In the moment, I was fairly disgruntled because I spent months researching 5-10 players that could have been picked by us at 6, and then we moved backed. Then, we trade up to take Phil Taylor who seems to have a redundant skill set to that of Rubin. After thinking about it, however, the pick started to grow on me. We now have to very stout players up the middle who should be very hard to move. In the end, there's no sense bitching about it because that's who we've got and we might as well support the man (all 350 pounds of him).

I'm interested to see who we target in the second round. Bowers is so tempting, but if he has bone on bone in his knee then I'd be hesitant to bring him in.

I'd be interested in a right tackle like Orlando Franklin, Marcus Gilbert, or Ben Ijalana (maybe as a guard). Allen Bailey at DE would also be of interest and would continue to bolster our run stopping ability as a left end.

I'm also intrigued by CB Brandon Harris, LBs Martez Wilson, Bruce Carter, and Akeem Ayers, and WRs Torrey Smith and Greg Little.

I'd look at Greg Romeus in the later rounds if the rehab of his knee is going well. He has the chance to be a real good football player.
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Old 04-29-2011, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by keylime_5 View Post
their 3rd rounder.
ooh a 3rd rounder i thought it was a 2nd. Not bad for you guys then.

just wondering as well who do the browns have at DE?

Did yo move Matt Roth and Bowens etc to OLB las year?

And are guys like Roth and Bowens any good?

Thanks for the help :)
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Old 04-29-2011, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
ooh a 3rd rounder i thought it was a 2nd. Not bad for you guys then.

just wondering as well who do the browns have at DE?

Did yo move Matt Roth and Bowens etc to OLB las year?

And are guys like Roth and Bowens any good?

Thanks for the help :)
If I'm not mistaken, Bowens has already been released and Roth is an unrestricted FA. The only guy I can think of is Marcus Bernard but he is a restricted FA. I figure they'll resign Jayme Mitchell, who is also an unrestricted FA, but a guy Heckert said "was the best pass rusher on the team" last season. I'd really like to see a big push for Cullen Jenkins in FA.
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Old 04-30-2011, 12:22 AM    (permalink
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If you have a good GM, you get 1st round talent out of the first round, no matter where you pick. It's about projecting how the player performs through their career, not who has the most "upside."

I think Heckert is a good GM and knows how to work the draft. I love the trade, although I did want Julio. I didn't like the pick much last night, but I've definitely started to come around now that I've done a little more research on Phil.

I think this is the nicest response I can muster. In general, I never see eye-to-eye with you IAC, and your negativity never ceases to amaze me.
I don't know why it amazes you, I've followed the Browns since Jim Brown was a rookie and over the years, through experience, I believe I have learned what makes an organization solid.
We have traded out of the top 10 twice already into the 20's. Name me one solid organization that has done that when rebuilding.
You finish near the bottom so in the draft, you have a shot at real impact players, that is the whole purpose of having a draft. Trading top 10 picks for picks in the 20's just doesn't work, no solid GM does that, none, zero, zilch, etc.

I can understand Holmgren's desperation because every drafter we have ever had since Lerner owned the team, has been a complete disaster. Holmgren is desperate no doubt but I just think this isn't the way to rebuild. It is going to take time and we will have to pay the piper if we want a winner. Trying for a quick fix just doesn't work IMO, you take the early picks and use them to find the solid foundation of impact players around which you can rebuild the team.

Sure, it is a slow method but it is also a proven method, used by all the great GM's. I'm also a Detroit fan who watched Matt Millen destroy that team for 8 years before Ford finally got rid of him. Mayhew, the new GM, took a team almost completely devoid of talent and started rebuilding them through the draft by using his top 10 picks to set a foundation in place from which a contender can be built. He's doing it the right way and in 3 years, he has brought Detroit back from the dead and they are closing in on being a serious contender, and he didn't do it by trading out of the top 10 into the 20's.

While Matt Millen was the Detroit GM, their fans also accused me of being too negative, now they are surprised how positive I have become. It's simple, I can see if an organization is doing it the right way and stay positive even if it takes time, but after years of plain rotten drafting, I have a hard time staying positive about Cleveland's direction when they are using a method, I know from experience just won't get the job done.
I hope it works out for Holmgren but I'm not holding my breath using this methodology.
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