Draft Countdown Forums

Go Back   Draft Countdown Forums > Draft Countdown Forums > Team Boards > Detroit Lions Team Forum

Detroit Lions Team Forum Discuss the Lions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-07-2011, 09:05 AM    (permalink
IwannatalktoSampson
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 39
Reputation: 9832
IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.IwannatalktoSampson is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default What do you guys think of Ashlee Palmer as our starter at WLB?

I think he played well for his 2nd season. 55 tackles, 3 FF, and 1 INT and only started 5 games. He's 24 years old and could be a solid starter.
IwannatalktoSampson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2011, 09:59 AM    (permalink
SINCE1978
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,239
Reputation: 44264
SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

I certainly do not think they will let him go ... but Palmer,Follett & Landon Johnson are solid depth guys imo. Great roster talent, start in spots where the #1 is injured, & play like beasts on special teams. That's my opinion ...

Based on production, I would rank the current Lions LB's ... (starters in bold)

Levy
Carpenter


Palmer
Johnson (ify)
Follett (IR?)

Ciurciu (cut)
Dizon (cut)

Likely they keep 6 on the 53 man roster (maybe 7 with ST's?)so there is an AMAZING talent pool of LB FA's (if they elect to test the waters) where we could "buy" an upgrade for Peterson's side & then draft a stud in the first couple rounds depending on how things shake out in April.

Just for fun ... say Skins Rocky McIntosh, who had a tough season switching to the 3-4, wants to get back to a 4-3 & Detroit is a fit. He would be a solid upgrade to the core group. Decent price tag & solid in the locker room/huddle. I like that idea ... Then go & add a Bruce Carter in rd 2 (slips b/c of the knee & missing the all star game circuit) that is an impressive core.

Mcintosh/Levy/Carter
Carpenter/Johnson/Palmer (Follett?)

Sandwich the Bruce Carter draft pick with 2 CB's & the back 7 is filling out nicely.
__________________
SINCE1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2011, 08:29 AM    (permalink
Newbs24
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 416
Reputation: 817
Newbs24 is a cocksman.Newbs24 is a cocksman.Newbs24 is a cocksman.Newbs24 is a cocksman.
Default

I like his game. He sticks his nose in there and lays the wood. Love him on ST. I don't know if he is starter material yet but I would not mind seeing him get a chance to learn on the job. He hits hard as hell and I think he is a very solid depth guy.
__________________


Quote:
Originally Posted by supermario86 View Post
Stanton will be a pro bowler his 5th year book it.
Newbs24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2011, 09:12 AM    (permalink
Prowler
Pro Bowler
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 4,669
Reputation: 731181
Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.Prowler is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

he can battle in training camp with carpenter and johnson to see who lines up along with levy and whoever we draft.
__________________
SCA Prowler is my Xbox Live Gamertag
Fire Caldwell!!!

Prowler's Newb Guide
Prowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 11:12 AM    (permalink
hybridremix
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 56
Reputation: 6865
hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

You gotta look at what Schwartz said at the end of the season. He stated quite plainly that the Lions have done a wonderful job of filling in depth, but the top 22 guys need upgrades. He said that most of the team would be back next year, but not everyone would still be in the same role. This is a non-specific way of saying some of our starters are wonderful backups, and we need to get a few more starters.

Nowhere on the roster is this more true than at LB. They are committed to Levy in the middle, so I presume they consider him an NFL starter. He wasn't overly impressive, but you could still see the potential. Perhaps the injury affected him enough to limit his playmaking.

Follett was tough-nosed and did a great job when asked to plug gaps on the line [see the goal-line stand in Chicago], but he wasn't athletic enough to play all three downs, and we don't even know if he'll play again at this point. Peterson still had all the skill in the world, but chose to play it soft in his contract year. That's unfortunate, but that's what happens with non-guaranteed contracts. Obviously we all know he won't be back.

Carpenter had a lot of tackles once he started playing, but how many of them were good tackles, meaning, how many of them were explosive tackles for less than 3 yards, and how many for 5-8 yards down the field? That has been the M.O. for Lions LBs over the past decade. Johnson was similar, but also clearly more comfortable and confident.

Palmer showed some real fire and I have a feeling Gunther will want to give him every opportunity to start, but he was much-maligned by the fans in the pre-season for blowing assignments. It's hard to judge individual LB assignments when the whole unit is bad, so how can we say that he really improved in that area? None of the coaches have said.

I really wanted to see Dizon play this year. Gunther mentioned last offseason how he continually got confused between Dizon and Peterson when watching coach's tape. I don't know exactly what that means, and given the way Peterson played all year perhaps it wasn't a compliment. But he has always had a nose for the ball and I wanted to see him play WLB in this defense. Maybe we'll never get the chance.

Ciurciu and Ekejiuba are irrelevant in this conversation because they are STers who would never need to play on defense if the unit played well and avoided injury. And anyone else who I might've missed is irrelevant, too, since they were only brought in because of injury.

No one other than Levy stands out as a "starter". Some have a very good shot [Palmer, Dizon, Carpenter]. Palmer is the only one who has shown the proper amount of aggression. Everyone else seems tentative or afraid to make mistakes, and so their tackles occur too far downfield. We need guys who will fly into blockers and attack the running game. We don't even know yet if Levy fits that bill, but we have to give him some comrades so we can find out.

I've loved the things I've read about the LBs here at the Senior Bowl, especially the North team. Mark Herzlich sounds like he plays better than he practices and Casey Matthews sounds aggressive and instinctive attacking the line of scrimmage. Then there's Mason Foster, who just sounds fantastic all around.

I think we have a really good shot at picking up a combination of two LBs, one early and one late. We need a WILL and a SAM. I think we have enough competition at WILL that it's more pressing we get a SAM early, though that doesn't mean it's possible. Von Miller is a tough sell as a 4-3 SAM unless we're going to blitz him a lot. Akeem Ayers scares me because of his overall inconsistency. That's not a guy you expect to start from Day One. I love Herzlich because he's going to be inspired and motivated to prove he's fully recovered.

Does Kelvin Sheppard have value as a SAM? K.J. Wright has everything you want physically to play that position, but I haven't heard almost anything about his performance at the Senior Bowl. Has he been that bad? How late will he be available to pick?

Foster is not tall enough to cover the NFL TE. He'll get eaten alive. He would be an absolutely perfect solution for our problems at WILL. I also really love the idea of Matthews in the 4th or 5th. Ditto Nate Irving. Both guys are instinctive, collegiate MIKE guys who attack the line and know how to play the angles. They don't have the size to play MIKE, but using those talents at WILL could make them tackling machines the way our DL can eat up blockers.

I'd love to talk about FA options, but we just can't. Too much is up in the air. At least with the draft we know exactly who's available and when it will take place.
hybridremix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 11:56 AM    (permalink
SINCE1978
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,239
Reputation: 44264
SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hybridremix View Post
You gotta look at what Schwartz said at the end of the season. He stated quite plainly that the Lions have done a wonderful job of filling in depth, but the top 22 guys need upgrades. He said that most of the team would be back next year, but not everyone would still be in the same role. This is a non-specific way of saying some of our starters are wonderful backups, and we need to get a few more starters.

Nowhere on the roster is this more true than at LB. They are committed to Levy in the middle, so I presume they consider him an NFL starter. He wasn't overly impressive, but you could still see the potential. Perhaps the injury affected him enough to limit his playmaking.

Follett was tough-nosed and did a great job when asked to plug gaps on the line [see the goal-line stand in Chicago], but he wasn't athletic enough to play all three downs, and we don't even know if he'll play again at this point. Peterson still had all the skill in the world, but chose to play it soft in his contract year. That's unfortunate, but that's what happens with non-guaranteed contracts. Obviously we all know he won't be back.

Carpenter had a lot of tackles once he started playing, but how many of them were good tackles, meaning, how many of them were explosive tackles for less than 3 yards, and how many for 5-8 yards down the field? That has been the M.O. for Lions LBs over the past decade. Johnson was similar, but also clearly more comfortable and confident.

Palmer showed some real fire and I have a feeling Gunther will want to give him every opportunity to start, but he was much-maligned by the fans in the pre-season for blowing assignments. It's hard to judge individual LB assignments when the whole unit is bad, so how can we say that he really improved in that area? None of the coaches have said.

I really wanted to see Dizon play this year. Gunther mentioned last offseason how he continually got confused between Dizon and Peterson when watching coach's tape. I don't know exactly what that means, and given the way Peterson played all year perhaps it wasn't a compliment. But he has always had a nose for the ball and I wanted to see him play WLB in this defense. Maybe we'll never get the chance.

Ciurciu and Ekejiuba are irrelevant in this conversation because they are STers who would never need to play on defense if the unit played well and avoided injury. And anyone else who I might've missed is irrelevant, too, since they were only brought in because of injury.

No one other than Levy stands out as a "starter". Some have a very good shot [Palmer, Dizon, Carpenter]. Palmer is the only one who has shown the proper amount of aggression. Everyone else seems tentative or afraid to make mistakes, and so their tackles occur too far downfield. We need guys who will fly into blockers and attack the running game. We don't even know yet if Levy fits that bill, but we have to give him some comrades so we can find out.

I've loved the things I've read about the LBs here at the Senior Bowl, especially the North team. Mark Herzlich sounds like he plays better than he practices and Casey Matthews sounds aggressive and instinctive attacking the line of scrimmage. Then there's Mason Foster, who just sounds fantastic all around.

I think we have a really good shot at picking up a combination of two LBs, one early and one late. We need a WILL and a SAM. I think we have enough competition at WILL that it's more pressing we get a SAM early, though that doesn't mean it's possible. Von Miller is a tough sell as a 4-3 SAM unless we're going to blitz him a lot. Akeem Ayers scares me because of his overall inconsistency. That's not a guy you expect to start from Day One. I love Herzlich because he's going to be inspired and motivated to prove he's fully recovered.

Does Kelvin Sheppard have value as a SAM? K.J. Wright has everything you want physically to play that position, but I haven't heard almost anything about his performance at the Senior Bowl. Has he been that bad? How late will he be available to pick?

Foster is not tall enough to cover the NFL TE. He'll get eaten alive. He would be an absolutely perfect solution for our problems at WILL. I also really love the idea of Matthews in the 4th or 5th. Ditto Nate Irving. Both guys are instinctive, collegiate MIKE guys who attack the line and know how to play the angles. They don't have the size to play MIKE, but using those talents at WILL could make them tackling machines the way our DL can eat up blockers.

I'd love to talk about FA options, but we just can't. Too much is up in the air. At least with the draft we know exactly who's available and when it will take place.
Welcome to the board hybridremix!! Way to break it down ... keep giving insight like this & we will keep you around :o) (hahaha) Maybe a former LB??
Very solid ... um, where to start ... I agree on the 2 top OLB's (Ayers/Miller) beign better fit in a 3-4 scheme were they are blitzed often or even put in a position where their hand is in the dirt. Not ideal in Detroit under Gun, but they are both VERY athletic & the middle of the defense needs more length, speed, athelticism etc. A 1st round talent you did not mention is Justin Houston who could gain momentum leading up to April & not be such a long shot as the pick at 13? I like his skills. Ayers, Miller, Houston could all be there at pick 13 & would be players Gun/Schwartz I would hope would adapt defensive plays around to showcase some of their talents.
100% agree with the Schwartz quote about upgrading the roster depth last season now it's time to add to the 22 starters. I forgot about that actually ... nice work bringing it up! In addition to Herzlich, Foster, Matthews & Wright, I like Bruce Carter who is recovering from that blown out knee. He could be steal for Detroit at pick 45 ... another player looking to prove himself worthy after the injury. This site had him as a top 15 overall talent at one point! I like the idea of gettting a WILL & a SAM LB (along with a CB & G/C) in the first 4 picks. If even 3 of those 4 pan out to be decent starters there forms the young nucleous of a team set to make a run at the play off's for the next 5 years.
__________________
SINCE1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-27-2011, 01:32 PM    (permalink
hybridremix
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 56
Reputation: 6865
hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.hybridremix is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

Haha...no, I'm not a former LB. I just read everything and pay close attention, plus I've watched just about every Lions game since the '99 season. I also pay *far* too much attention to the draft. There's just something about the whole process that draws me in =\

But thanks for the welcome!

My biggest issue with the draft as a whole is that people always seem to get wrapped up in the "prospect" side of a player, rather than his actual skills. And this is not limited to the media or draftniks. Those behaviors are copied from the behaviors of GMs.

I have a theory that, unfortunately, I'll never be able to test. My theory is that if you want to turn around a team quickly, you don't take chances. You don't pick a guy based on upside. You pick a guy who looks like he's better than the guys on your roster. Don't mess around and get dazzled by athleticism. I wanted more than anything for Boss Bailey and Kalimba Edwards to work out. They were bad picks because they were technically projects, but the elite athleticism they carried was too enticing to pass up. Someone else would've taken them if we hadn't, and they woulda been just as big busts.

I see guys like Ayers and Carter like that. They are fantastically gifted players who have ridiculous upside, but they don't display it on the field play-after-play. We can't take chances on guys like that. They won't help us while they develop. We need guys who can help us NOW! With the exception of Stafford, that seems to be what Mayhew has been doing with all his early picks. All of them became starters or major contributors as rookies.

Mason Foster can play ball. He can glide sideline-to-sideline, keep up with RBs and TEs, aggressively plug his gap, and square up for a tackle. He's been the best LB in the PAC-10 for at least two seasons. We need that far more than we need 250-lbs of athlete. Athleticism cannot help us if the guy gets eaten up by blockers and tries to tackle the ball-carrier's shoulders.

That's why I'm paying so much attention to the Senior Bowl. Obviously none of the juniors can show this kind of stuff. That's a bit unfortunate. I'd love to see Ayers and Martez Wilson in situations like we see Herzlich and Foster. It's not gonna happen. We have to deal with it.

I would simply be extremely nervous if we came out of rounds 1 and 2 without bonafide starters. If we want a legit chance at the playoffs, we have to fill these 4 glaring holes: 1) SAM, 2) WILL, 3) CB, 4) Slot WR. I really hope we get some FA in here. Hopefully Jason Whitlock is right and the NFLPA caves before we lose too much of the offseason. Because unless we trade down, we have no shot at filling all 4 positions with starting-quality players in the draft.
hybridremix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2011, 07:04 AM    (permalink
SINCE1978
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,239
Reputation: 44264
SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.SINCE1978 is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
Default

(@ Hybridremix) good stuff ... Lions fan & draft junkies welcome! You are in the right place brotha! :o) Solid theory. Intersting to see what you have to say about CB's & #3 WR in the draft discussion board. I look forward to it.
__________________
SINCE1978 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.