2013 Free Agency Discussion - Page 11

SRogers92 · 01-17-2012, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cotts1

Tulloch misses a tackle for every tackle he makes. Yes he led our team in tackles, but virtually every teams MLB will lead their team in tackles. Its just the nature of the position. Tulloch has poor speed, constantly over pursues and often takes bad angles. Doesn't properly diagnose play action or screens. Average at best pass coverage. Can't shed blocks.

If you watch the real good MLB's in the NFL they make most of their plays at or near the line of scrimmage. Tulloch makes most of his tackles 5-10 yards past the LOS. Now Durant is actually a good LB. He had a bad game against the Saints, but he was by far our best LB this season IMO.

Are you effing kidding me? Go to any other Lions message board and post this, you'll be laughed off. Tulloch was probably our best defensive player last season outside of maybe a healthy Chris Houston. He's the only LB on our team that has any sort of play recognition and ability to wrap up and tackle. There's no way he won't be back with the team -- no freaking way. I'd rather us let go of both Levy and Durant before Tulloch.

We will be fine in the cap room for a few reasons. Corey Williams will be restructured or released. I expect to see KVB restructured. Eric Wright will either come back very cheap or be let go. Calvin will be extended and will save us in about 6-7M this season in cap savings. And -- a guy like Peterman who's been terrible, makes around 5M a year and will not be back. Jeff Backus will be re-signed but, will come at a much cheaper price than the 7M or so he made last season.

We'll be fine with cap once we start talking to these vets a bit more.

Maybe This Year Mayhew · 01-18-2012, 10:20 AM

KVB can't restructure because he did last year along with Stafford. Suh is your best bet this year to restructure but it just pushes it down the road wtih Houston,Durant,Levy,Hill,Delmas,Gosder to resign next year or just let walk. I don't want Eric Wright back, he was 1 year 3.5 million last year, he won't come back for cheaper no matter how bad he did in the second half of the season. Peterman is not 5 million against the cap about that half that. He may get replaced but I doubt they cut him. Corey Williams is probably the odd man out at 5 million to make room for Tulloch. Backus will be resigned but it won't be the vet minimum. If Eric Wright made 3.5 million, Backus a starting LT every year for the Lions will get a few million. Calvin must be resigned and will save 6 million. A bunch of salaries/bonuses are going up, Stafford,Suh,KVB,Burleson,Houston,Durant so getting Avril back is going to be tight with filling out the rest of the roster. Can be done but won't be easy.

Xiomera · 01-18-2012, 10:22 AM

Backus will not be cheap. He's the best left tackle available this offseason.

Prowler · 01-18-2012, 11:11 AM

What if Schwartz showed up on his doorstep at 12:01 am with a lowball offer? Do you think that he'd at least appreciate the gesture and sign it anyway? I want to offer like $3.5m-4m. I'm guessing that he'd take a bit of a hometown discount, but I think he'll still end up in that $5m range.

For reference, last year Jermon Bushrod received a 2 year $9.5m deal.

Prowler · 01-18-2012, 11:52 AM

I'll put this here as a quick reference sheet for people to check.

A quick glance at thenetrat.com reveals that we have about $16m for next year.

Last year:
Ray Edwards received 5 year $30m ($6m/yr)
Charles Johnson received 6 year $76m ($12m+/yr)
Mathias Kiwanuka received 2 year $8.6m ($4.3m/yr)

That Charles Johnson contract was ******** and I'm going to ignore it. The Panthers were desperate and had huge problems trying to retain their players. However, it will cause some problems with Avril's negotiations. I'm guessing they'll settle around $7m/year.

FA ($ cost in 2011)(Projected Price 2012)
Avril (2.61)($7m)
Backus(6.95m)(5-6m)
Tulloch(3.25m)(3m)
Wright(3.5m)(3m)
Kevin Smith(600k)(600-800k)
Shaun Hill(2.273m)(2m)
Corey Hilliard(480k)
Stefan Logan(480k)

The right of first refusal in 2010(newest numbers I could find) was a $1.2m offer.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...cy-and-tenders

RFA
DeAndre Levy(683.5k)
Sammie Lee Hill(600k)

Potential cost cutting moves
Resign Calvin Johnson(18m-22m depending on source)(15M)
Cut Corey Williams ($6.083m)
Raiola ($3.4m)
KVB ($6.73m)

http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/detroit-lions/
http://thenetrat.com/

SRogers92 · 01-18-2012, 01:02 PM

The cap ceiling is also going up this off-season and teams have to spend like 90% of their available cap room. So, we'll have plenty of room.

And -- Jeff Backus may be the "best OLT available" but, that's because you never see top notch OLT's hitting the market and Backus is going to have surgery on his arm for the injury he suffered against the Saints. His price should be pretty low(not vet min, though).

Xiomera · 01-18-2012, 01:55 PM

Prowler, you are lowballing the money Avril and Tulloch will command.

Xiomera · 01-18-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SRogers92

And -- Jeff Backus may be the "best OLT available" but, that's because you never see top notch OLT's hitting the market and Backus is going to have surgery on his arm for the injury he suffered against the Saints. His price should be pretty low(not vet min, though).

Except Backus is a league average left tackle (not below average) and he's never missed a start in his career. Guarantee he'll be in demand, but will probably show loyalty to the Lions. The question is, how much?

Maybe This Year Mayhew · 01-18-2012, 02:41 PM

Backus was way better in the second half of the season. That pec injury may have hurt him some.

6 sacks, 3 hits, 22 hurries in first 8 (Allen abused him)
1 sack, one hit and 14 hurries in second half

sweetd20 · 01-18-2012, 02:43 PM

I wouldn't pay Avril much more than $6.5 million per year. The way I look at Avril is I ask myself if he were a FA from another team is he a must have? At the end of the day I can't say yes he is. He's a nice DE but not much more than a slightly above average guy off the edge. I think he gets the "we need to sign this guy" because he is a Lion and people have drank the kool-aid. Just like when James Hall had a big year and all the talk was he had to be signed regardless of the cost and he never lived up to the contract.

Scotty D · 01-18-2012, 03:02 PM

I wouldn't mind Avril at Ray Edwards money. Not much more than that though.

I think Backus will be around 3 million. Did Tulloch have a more impressive year than his time at Tennessee? There wasn't a huge market for him last year. I'm not sure he raised his stock that much.

Maybe This Year Mayhew · 01-19-2012, 08:37 AM

Yeah Tulloch averaging 4 million for a couple years is good for me.

What about backup QB? Resign Hill?

Xiomera · 01-19-2012, 10:49 AM

Stanton will be cheaper than Hill. I bet only one of them returns.

Prowler · 01-19-2012, 11:15 AM

I'm fine with Stanton as backup. If Hill plays then I probably want to just tank and get another top 10 pick anyway. Ideally he'd just be used to throw passes to receivers in warm-ups and help hold the football on kicks if its windy.

SINCE1978 · 01-19-2012, 11:18 AM

My 2 cents ..

on Avril &/or Tulloch: if Detroit opted to not "pay" Avril, the roster drop-off @ DE (as it currently sits) is LoJack & Young. Who some would argue are both starter "material", but probably closer to slightly average for the position in the NFL. If Avril is asking HUGE $, I might opt to let him go & switch gears in the draft, looking DE @ #23 (Ingram/Mercilus?) or #46 (Curry?).

If Tulloch were to sign elsewhere the depth chart would have to be moved around where Levy likely goes back to MLB so Carpenter/Durant can play outside ... blah blah, here we go again! But to be honest this is a much bigger drop-off in talent or production. Tulloch fits the middle of this defense well. He is a solid locker room guy & seems to play well for Schwartz. The few that have said he misses tackles & was not very good as a Lion apparently did not watch the same defense I did this season?! :o) If this were my show it would be ideal to keep them both b/c they arguably were your 2 most productive defensive players in 2011 ... but if it was 1 OR the other b/c of $$, I would keep Tulloch over Avril & target in the draft a DE then a CB (or vice versa). This move also assists with signing CJ, the #1 priority imho.

Xiomera · 01-19-2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prowler

I'm fine with Stanton as backup. If Hill plays then I probably want to just tank and get another top 10 pick anyway. Ideally he'd just be used to throw passes to receivers in warm-ups and help hold the football on kicks if its windy.

Exactly. I've said this before ... if you have a franchise QB and he gets hurt, you're season is over anyways. Why waste money on an expensive backup? There are always veterans that can be signed at the time of an injury anyways.

Xiomera · 01-19-2012, 12:03 PM

I would much rather have Avril than Vanden Bosch. Cut Kyle, keep Cliff.

Iamcanadian · 01-19-2012, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

Exactly. I've said this before ... if you have a franchise QB and he gets hurt, you're season is over anyways. Why waste money on an expensive backup? There are always veterans that can be signed at the time of an injury anyways.

Well, I'd rate Hill as the best backup in the NFL and if they feel they can afford him, then by all means keep him.

Xiomera · 01-19-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Well, I'd rate Hill as the best backup in the NFL and if they feel they can afford him, then by all means keep him.

He's my choice, yes, but not if it prevents them from adding a starting-caliber defender or if it's the difference between affording Tulloch or a lesser MLB.

SINCE1978 · 01-20-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiomera

I would much rather have Avril than Vanden Bosch. Cut Kyle, keep Cliff.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't KVB still under contract?
Yes, Avril had a much more productive year & is on the sunnier side of 30, but in your scenario Detroit would not free up extra ca$h for Avril's pay raise by cutting KVB ... if Detroit still owes KVB per his contract but cut him, then they are just light 1 DE (starter) on the depth chart who they still are paying a premium to. Combine that with Schwartz loving the guy & absolutely 100% no way that is happening fella. :o)
Besides, that sounds more like a Dombrowski strategy of cutting ties with a player basically paying them to not be on the roster .. ie the Willis/Robertson/Bonderman $$ fiasco from a few years ago. (haha)

Prowler · 01-20-2012, 02:24 PM

Contracts mean nothing in the NFL. His number this year is $6.73m and would only count to be $2.96m against the 2012 cap if we cut KVB this year.

Xiomera · 01-20-2012, 02:41 PM

What Prowler said. Teams cut vets ALL THE TIME when they're under contract.

Prowler · 01-20-2012, 02:45 PM

What used to screw us with Millen, was with signing bonuses. Teams have the option to distribute signing bonuses over the length of the contract, which is why we had to keep paying people who weren't here.

SINCE1978 · 01-20-2012, 06:41 PM

I don't deny that to be true Xiomera & Prowler, but let's face it ... KVB is not "cut" material to Schwartz (yet).

Peterman, yup I could see that ... KVB no way.

Scotty D · 01-20-2012, 09:26 PM

Yeah, no way they cut KVB. They need to work with him or make some tweaks so he isn't out of position all the team but he's a huge part of the veteran leadership on the team. His motor is a good thing to have around. I do remember Burleson and KVB both got a lot of guaranteed money up front when they signed their contracts.