*FLASHBACK-Anyone concerned with our speed at MLB?

03-21-2007, 03:08 PM

I dont think we could possibly have both akin ayodele and bradie james start next year. They are both WAY to slow, honestly does anyone remember when Jon Kitna outran Bradie james, JON KITNA for the love of christ. You can forget about having them cover running backs or TE's. I dont think Wade Phillips is to excited about his MLB's so i expect one of those guys to be replaced(Bradie James) by a speedy LB that has traits comparable to Donnie Edwards.

This is why we'll sign Ken Hamlin, and draft a first round MLB(hopefully Patrick Willis)

thule · 03-21-2007, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSlay4

I dont think we could possibly have both akin ayodele and bradie james start next year. They are both WAY to slow, honestly does anyone remember when Jon Kitna outran Bradie james, JON KITNA for the love of christ. You can forget about having them cover running backs or TE's. I dont think Wade Phillips is to excited about his MLB's so i expect one of those guys to be replaced(Bradie James) by a speedy LB that has traits comparable to Donnie Edwards.

This is why we'll sign Ken Hamlin, and draft a first round MLB(hopefully Patrick Willis)

From the way our offseason is going...it looks like Carp will be moving to the inside. I would still like to see Burnett on the inside. I think Carp has what it takes to be a SOLB in our scheme...however with the way we are pursuing OLB's it looks like he will be moved inside.

D-Unit · 03-21-2007, 04:24 PM

Carp will unseat one of the two ILBs not before long. I think he's the ideal fit at SILB and have been saying that for a while now. Maybe once Tnew sees this, he'll start announcing it to the world saying he's thought that the whole time.

We don't need Patrick Willis though. We have bigger concerns.

robert_in_bigd · 03-21-2007, 04:45 PM

Sorry, D-Unit and T-New.... there was a person on this board at the end of the season who wrote about this. Can't say I remember but saying same thing as Slay and Marshall Faulk "slow in the middle of the field" and lumped Williams in the same sentence.

Regardless, Ayodele and Carp is a pretty athletic group of big 3-4 ILB. Maybe Burnett slides over WOLB and Ware moves SOLB or frankly they alternate depending on where the strong side is on the play.

By the way, losing Fowler, and possibly Ellis, leaves us thin at LB. Is Singleton even coming back?

D-Unit · 03-21-2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert_in_bigd

Sorry, D-Unit and T-New.... there was a person on this board at the end of the season who wrote about this. Can't say I remember but saying same thing as Slay and Marshall Faulk "slow in the middle of the field" and lumped Williams in the same sentence.

Regardless, Ayodele and Carp is a pretty athletic group of big 3-4 ILB. Maybe Burnett slides over WOLB and Ware moves SOLB or frankly they alternate depending on where the strong side is on the play.

By the way, losing Fowler, and possibly Ellis, leaves us thin at LB. Is Singleton even coming back?

Another reason why I think Carp should stay at ILB. I don't want Singleton back. I think Hoyte should make a permanent move back to ILB as well. We need an OLB. Weakside or Strong side because Ware can play either.

robert_in_bigd · 03-21-2007, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

Another reason why I think Carp should stay at ILB. I don't want Singleton back. I think Hoyte should make a permanent move back to ILB as well. We need an OLB. Weakside or Strong side because Ware can play either.

If you feel that way then we should go OLB by round 2 because you need a starting caliber player ASAP.

So what about Burnett as a starting OLB? You don't seem to think he can play it as a starter.

BX · 03-21-2007, 05:40 PM

Well, apparently Patrick Willis ran a 4.37 at his Pro Day. Is that enough speed?

Im_a_Romosexual · 03-21-2007, 05:53 PM

obviously he has enough speed, but we wont pick him because we have more important positions to address and I also doubt him being available

TNewFan41 · 03-21-2007, 06:06 PM

D-Unit, when do I ever copy what you say? The only thing we pretty much agree on is Reggie Nelson, and I liked him for a while before I knew you did. You think Julius is good and fast, I think he is a women and has average speed, you want take tyler at 22, I wouldn't touch him before 50, and you want an OLB, I don't think we should draft one on the first day, because Carp is staying at SOLB.

So yea, I really copy you.......

03-21-2007, 06:44 PM

We need a pass rusher first. Jarvis Moss anyone

D-Unit · 03-21-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNewFan41

D-Unit, when do I ever copy what you say? The only thing we pretty much agree on is Reggie Nelson, and I liked him for a while before I knew you did. You think Julius is good and fast, I think he is a women and has average speed, you want take tyler at 22, I wouldn't touch him before 50, and you want an OLB, I don't think we should draft one on the first day, because Carp is staying at SOLB.

So yea, I really copy you.......

First, you had doubts on Reggie Nelson the second after he ran his combine 40. That to me showed your disbelief in him. So you weren't always supportive of him, as you claim to be. ...Oh... and I just had to laugh at your Reggie Nelson sig imitation... even down to the same color scheme!!! LMAO!

Secondly, I think Julius has average speed at RB, so don't put words in my mouth like you always do. If you were around last offseason, you know I've always liked MB3 more than Julius. If we can trade JJ and get value back, I'm all for it. I just doubt that we would be able to get fair value. If we can trade him and somehow be able to draft Antonio Pittman, I'd be a happy man.

Third, yes. I did want Tyler at 22 and especially after the Senior Bowl weigh in, when he came in at 322 pounds. But at the time Nelson was projected to go way before our pick at 22. I've always maintained that I preferred Nelson over Tyler. Just didn't think it was a reality until recently. Do I believe Tyler is worth the 22 pick now? Yes and no. Yes, I think it would be ok to take him, but no because I think we can get him in a trade down, so I don't think it would be the very best move to draft him at 22. However, Nelson has to be off the board at 22 to even consider it.

You say you wouldn't touch Tyler before 50, but you want us to trade up for Branch??? I haven't heard you bring up Branch in that frame of mind, until I said that I thought we should do it. ...and why would you? If you don't wanna touch Tyler until 50 that to me says you don't consider NT to be our #1 need. I think it is, and I have stated is many times before. I got bashed for the thought by the many Jason Ferguson supporters. Yet, now you want to trade up for Branch? Yeah... sure buddy.

You saw my debate with LSU on why we should not take a corner in the first round and you pulled out your Ricola trumpet and started emphasizing 100xs over why we shouldn't take a corner in round 1. But I see recently you've changed your mind... as easily moldable as it is... once guys started talking about how they like Scott's Chris Houtson pick. There you showed up saying, I don't want a corner, unless it's Houston. LOL!!! Now, I'm not on the Houston bandwagon like you cause I maintain that we shouldn't spend a CB on round 1. My only thing is... if the CB can play FS, like Ross, then I'm for it. Now things might change if anything happens with Hamlin, but I'll wait on that.

I'm glad you don't agree with me on Carp's future position... but I wonder how long until you change your mind or come out and say, you've liked him at ILB the whole time! HAHAHA!

But you know what, whether you agree or disagree with me is perfectly fine. I don't find glory in it either way. Just the same, I agree and disagree with the things other people say here too. I just like people to be thoughtful and consistent in some of their thinking. You change your opinion depending on which way the wind blows.

D-Unit · 03-21-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjmcquade

We need a pass rusher first. Jarvis Moss anyone

Yeah, many of us like Moss here. I'll take him if Nelson is off the board and we don't trade down. But I doubt he lasts until 22 anyways.

thule · 03-21-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert_in_bigd

Sorry, D-Unit and T-New.... there was a person on this board at the end of the season who wrote about this. Can't say I remember but saying same thing as Slay and Marshall Faulk "slow in the middle of the field" and lumped Williams in the same sentence.

Regardless, Ayodele and Carp is a pretty athletic group of big 3-4 ILB. Maybe Burnett slides over WOLB and Ware moves SOLB or frankly they alternate depending on where the strong side is on the play.

By the way, losing Fowler, and possibly Ellis, leaves us thin at LB. Is Singleton even coming back?

HAHA Geez I was really hoping you were gonna come out and admit it...but still old same cowboysforever in there. It's alright robertinbigd you've matured up abit and adapted to the board I can respect that. I think it was pretty obvious to the rest of us this is your 3rd or 4th s/n...no means to be ashamed man you've came along ways.

Burnett starting at OLB in a 3-4 defense would scare me. I still love him playing 50% of the defensive snaps playing as our coverage backer. To this day I dont' understand why he is backing up Ware...but I have a feeling that may change in TC when Wade gets a look at our defense playing in pads.

The longer this offseason goes on the bigger weakness our OLB position seems to be. I really think that if we are looking at a rush backer that Spencer should be our guy. I think he just has another dimension as the other rush backers in this draft. Moss has decent hips and a array of moves...but doesn't really have that initial punch. Moses has stiff hips and although he could make the transition...the curve looks a bit to big for me. I love woodley as a player...but his height will always be a concern for me...unless we are gonna draft him specifically as a rush backer...similar to the way Anderson was utilized in Chicago. I have a feeling I'm forgetting someone...but can't pull it off the top of my head. I just then Spencer is the complete package. Spencer probably has the most balanced guys I mentioned..I think he would be the guy to make the biggest impact from day one of the other projects listed. He has been my #1 RLB since the end of the season.

Burns336 · 03-21-2007, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNewFan41

D-Unit, when do I ever copy what you say? The only thing we pretty much agree on is Reggie Nelson, and I liked him for a while before I knew you did. You think Julius is good and fast, I think he is a women and has average speed, you want take tyler at 22, I wouldn't touch him before 50, and you want an OLB, I don't think we should draft one on the first day, because Carp is staying at SOLB.

So yea, I really copy you.......

youre on his dick so hard and you always copy everything he says and you flip flop more than john kerry.

thule · 03-21-2007, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burns336

youre on his dick so hard and you always copy everything he says and you flip flop more than john kerry.

Sounds like a rap song.

KILLERSANTA · 03-21-2007, 10:40 PM

Burnett should START!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

Modano · 03-22-2007, 03:07 AM

I still don't get why we should draft another LB so early in the draft.
Right now we have:

Ware: 1st round
Carpenter: 1st round
Burnett: early 2nd round
James: signed a new contract
Ayodele: signed a huge contract last year

And we got Ellis. If we pick Jarvis Moss do you want him to start or play as a role player? And if he's gonna start, who are you going to bench?
We don't know how Carpenter could play inside, he has never played this position for us. He have seen the field as ILB in the nickel situations. When Ellis got hurt he started to play on the outside, alternating series with Singleton. Then he started against Seattle and had an amzing game.
It's only ONE game, but it's the only one in which we've seen Carpenter start.
If he can play an entire season like that game (that right now it's his only career start) he's gonna be a great player.
So why don't give him a chance to play SOLB and move him to ILB? I really don't understand why we should move him inside.
Wade Phillips had great success rushing the passer without high profile players on the outside. He had Merriman (but in Dallas he has Ware), but opposite him he had Foley (who was a mediocre player in Cincinnati and Houston) and he turned him into a double digit sack guy, than when Foley got hurt he turned Phillips in another double digit sack guy, and when Phillips got hurt he was able to put pressure using Carlos Polk!
So I don't think Wade Phillips needs another premiere pass rusher. Yes, I think we shoul draft another DE/OLB hybrid, but not in the first round. I believe Carpenter is the perfect fit, and when he had the chance to prove it, he did it. Once again, it's only one game, but which proofs do you have that he will play better on the inside?
Finally, the problem with the pass rush, imo, was beacuse of the d-line, not the LB corps... Our LBs weren't able to get untouched to the QB, everytime we blitzed, the OL picked it.

I want us to go CB because it's the best value. What if Henry got hurt again? If we draft a CB right now, he will have at least one year under Newman, Henry and Glenn to learn the position. If we draft a CB next year, maybe will be forced to start him from game 1...

thule · 03-22-2007, 03:21 AM

I agree with you Modono Draft wise...however

Carp did play inside...he was actually moved inside during TC as parcells said he looked far more comfortable there...at the time he was also pushing for the starting nickel job...however with the move inside...learning another positions Parcells dropped him down to 3rd string LB on the nickel. Carp never saw a snap in the nickel in regular season...he did play sparingly on the inside tho...not alot but a couple snaps a game. He was only move to OLB when Ellis went down...lets face it we didn't exactly have alot of other options at that point...Singleton was nowhere near a everydown sam backer...and Glymth was far to raw to have any playing time...We had no other choice but to move Carp back over to spell him.

I agree that the Seattle game gave me promise for Carp on the outside. But from the way the offseason has broken down...it appears more and more that OLB will be addressed in the draft. I mean look at the combine breakdown...you don't interview that many OLB canadites if your not looking to bring one in...those guys weren't exactly 2nd tier OLB's either...Moses looks to be the only one who may be there in the 2nd round when our pick comes around.

Just for the record...Akin's contract isn't exactly hamstringing us..especially with the new cap in place...he is signed to a very lucrative deal imo. James extension really looks to be a brain scratcher sometimes...but I still agree with BBD that he is our run thumper...and our defense wouldn't be as stout without him.

Modano · 03-22-2007, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

Carp never saw a snap in the nickel in regular season...he did play sparingly on the inside tho...not alot but a couple snaps a game.

I remember at least 2 game in which he was playing the nickel. Washington at home and the one against Atlanta..

Btw, if we pick another OLB with our first pick who are we going to bench? Ayodele or James?

D-Unit · 03-22-2007, 04:39 AM

I really don't know where the value will be when we are on the clock. I think it's hard to say CB will be of greatest value. What if a top player (non-CB) slips? It throws that whole idea of CB being of greatest value out the window. Ireland said that they don't have a vertical draft board. He said they have a horizontal one.... Boy I would love to see it. It makes perfect sense to do it that way too.

I know I've bashed the WR in the first round picks, but I just love the Dwayne Jarrett rumors! LOL! Count me in as a happy man if that happens. I honestly think that there isn't a lot that separates him from CJ. Top 10 player, imo.

robert_in_bigd · 03-22-2007, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thule

HAHA Geez I was really hoping you were gonna come out and admit it...but still old same cowboysforever in there. It's alright robertinbigd you've matured up abit and adapted to the board I can respect that. I think it was pretty obvious to the rest of us this is your 3rd or 4th s/n...no means to be ashamed man you've came along ways.

Burnett starting at OLB in a 3-4 defense would scare me. I still love him playing 50% of the defensive snaps playing as our coverage backer. To this day I dont' understand why he is backing up Ware...but I have a feeling that may change in TC when Wade gets a look at our defense playing in pads.

The longer this offseason goes on the bigger weakness our OLB position seems to be. I really think that if we are looking at a rush backer that Spencer should be our guy. I think he just has another dimension as the other rush backers in this draft. Moss has decent hips and a array of moves...but doesn't really have that initial punch. Moses has stiff hips and although he could make the transition...the curve looks a bit to big for me. I love woodley as a player...but his height will always be a concern for me...unless we are gonna draft him specifically as a rush backer...similar to the way Anderson was utilized in Chicago. I have a feeling I'm forgetting someone...but can't pull it off the top of my head. I just then Spencer is the complete package. Spencer probably has the most balanced guys I mentioned..I think he would be the guy to make the biggest impact from day one of the other projects listed. He has been my #1 RLB since the end of the season.

?? references ??

Either way, Spencer can be had in the second though. So trade down if need be. I like Woodley but I think he is a MLB who can slide across the line in rush situations -- I know this sounds nuts but he can cover FBs and is very stout. He could make a great ILB for a 3-4.

TNewFan41 · 03-22-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D-Unit

First, you had doubts on Reggie Nelson the second after he ran his combine 40. That to me showed your disbelief in him. So you weren't always supportive of him, as you claim to be. ...Oh... and I just had to laugh at your Reggie Nelson sig imitation... even down to the same color scheme!!! LMAO!

Secondly, I think Julius has average speed at RB, so don't put words in my mouth like you always do. If you were around last offseason, you know I've always liked MB3 more than Julius. If we can trade JJ and get value back, I'm all for it. I just doubt that we would be able to get fair value. If we can trade him and somehow be able to draft Antonio Pittman, I'd be a happy man.

Third, yes. I did want Tyler at 22 and especially after the Senior Bowl weigh in, when he came in at 322 pounds. But at the time Nelson was projected to go way before our pick at 22. I've always maintained that I preferred Nelson over Tyler. Just didn't think it was a reality until recently. Do I believe Tyler is worth the 22 pick now? Yes and no. Yes, I think it would be ok to take him, but no because I think we can get him in a trade down, so I don't think it would be the very best move to draft him at 22. However, Nelson has to be off the board at 22 to even consider it.

You say you wouldn't touch Tyler before 50, but you want us to trade up for Branch??? I haven't heard you bring up Branch in that frame of mind, until I said that I thought we should do it. ...and why would you? If you don't wanna touch Tyler until 50 that to me says you don't consider NT to be our #1 need. I think it is, and I have stated is many times before. I got bashed for the thought by the many Jason Ferguson supporters. Yet, now you want to trade up for Branch? Yeah... sure buddy.

You saw my debate with LSU on why we should not take a corner in the first round and you pulled out your Ricola trumpet and started emphasizing 100xs over why we shouldn't take a corner in round 1. But I see recently you've changed your mind... as easily moldable as it is... once guys started talking about how they like Scott's Chris Houtson pick. There you showed up saying, I don't want a corner, unless it's Houston. LOL!!! Now, I'm not on the Houston bandwagon like you cause I maintain that we shouldn't spend a CB on round 1. My only thing is... if the CB can play FS, like Ross, then I'm for it. Now things might change if anything happens with Hamlin, but I'll wait on that.

I'm glad you don't agree with me on Carp's future position... but I wonder how long until you change your mind or come out and say, you've liked him at ILB the whole time! HAHAHA!

But you know what, whether you agree or disagree with me is perfectly fine. I don't find glory in it either way. Just the same, I agree and disagree with the things other people say here too. I just like people to be thoughtful and consistent in some of their thinking. You change your opinion depending on which way the wind blows.

I didn't make that Nelson sig, NCStatefan83 or something like that make it. I want to trade up for Branch because with the signing of Hamlin we have no holes, and we can trade up. And I alwasy liked Nelson, I just want speed, and when he ran the 4.35 in the SWAMO, it reasurred me. I don't care who says 40 times don't matter. They aren't that great, but they do measure speed.

DMWSackMachine · 03-22-2007, 11:58 AM

How can people forget so quickly? This is the exact crap that cowboysforever--and all his aliases--was pushing during his breif and tumultuous stay here. I can't say that I agree with Thule in saying the RobertinbigD is him. I haven't seen near enough to be able to substantiate that.

Anyway, his main point was the Bradie James was slower than Peyton Manning, and that he couldn't do what was needed because of it. I don't know about you all, but I remember the scouting report on Bradie being that he had a great combination of size and speed. Hell, he started out as a WLB (in a 4-3) for crying out loud! Needless to say, I don't agree with this assessment. Both Bradie and Akin had moments in which they played at Pro Bowl levels during last season. The problem was that when one was playing his best, the other was usually struggling. They never got it going at the same time, and the defense showed it. People need to quit freaking out.

This defense is a deep patrol away from being dominant. We gave up so many big plays last year that it torpedoed most of what we were trying to do elsewhere. I think with the new season, and a little help at FS, we can break out as a top 5 team in the league very easily. Last season it was evident that we had the talent, we just struggle to put it all together at the same time. Unless Wade is completely inept as the head man, I fully expect us to be near the top of the league. There is no doubt that we have the talent that it takes. Our ILBs are fine, so are our OLBs, our DEs, and our CBs. NT is fine, too, though an injury there could kill us. Really, the question for our defense lies at Safety, where we need to get more out of Roy, and see substantial improvement at FS. There is no need to start freaking out and calling for change just for the sake of change.

TNewFan41 · 03-22-2007, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMWSackMachine

How can people forget so quickly? This is the exact crap that cowboysforever--and all his aliases--was pushing during his breif and tumultuous stay here. I can't say that I agree with Thule in saying the RobertinbigD is him. I haven't seen near enough to be able to substantiate that.

Anyway, his main point was the Bradie James was slower than Peyton Manning, and that he couldn't do what was needed because of it. I don't know about you all, but I remember the scouting report on Bradie being that he had a great combination of size and speed. Hell, he started out as a WLB (in a 4-3) for crying out loud! Needless to say, I don't agree with this assessment. Both Bradie and Akin had moments in which they played at Pro Bowl levels during last season. The problem was that when one was playing his best, the other was usually struggling. They never got it going at the same time, and the defense showed it. People need to quit freaking out.

This defense is a deep patrol away from being dominant. We gave up so many big plays last year that it torpedoed most of what we were trying to do elsewhere. I think with the new season, and a little help at FS, we can break out as a top 5 team in the league very easily. Last season it was evident that we had the talent, we just struggle to put it all together at the same time. Unless Wade is completely inept as the head man, I fully expect us to be near the top of the league. There is no doubt that we have the talent that it takes. Our ILBs are fine, so are our OLBs, our DEs, and our CBs. NT is fine, too, though an injury there could kill us. Really, the question for our defense lies at Safety, where we need to get more out of Roy, and see substantial improvement at FS. There is no need to start freaking out and calling for change just for the sake of change.

Thank you. This is the talent thing I was trying to point out all along. We are just a good defensive sheme away (which Wade will bring) from atleast the NFC Championship.

nrcirc · 03-22-2007, 12:17 PM

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/10066679

Remember this link: You have two players that really should look at:

"ZAK DeOSSIE, BROWN (Round 4) -- I don't care that Zak played in the Ivy League; he is perfect for the 3-4 OLB spot. He runs 4.6 in the 40 and an outstanding 4.2 in the short shuttle. He's strong (6-4, 250) and productive. He has long-snapping skills like his father Steve (former NFL player) and he knows the game."

With 4.2 short shuttle, he can play inside or Outside.

"Paul Soliai DL Soliai (6-4, 332) ran his 40s in 5.02 and 5.12 seconds, the short shuttle in 4.53 and the three-cone drill in 7.77. He also had a 30½-inch vertical jump, but a right elbow sprain prevented him from doing the bench press."

IMO, Soliai maybe the best NT prospect in this draft. 4.53 SS.