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Old 12-19-2011, 07:54 PM    (permalink
Big_Pete
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What?? We probably have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.
I don't agree. I think we have a solid roster, and we have been doing well with what we have.

A great example is LB where we have failed to bring in quality talent (outside of Boley), despite it becoming a pass happy league. You can't rely on late round picks and converted DEs
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't agree. I think we have a solid roster, and we have been doing well with what we have.

A great example is LB where we have failed to bring in quality talent (outside of Boley), despite it becoming a pass happy league. You can't rely on late round picks and converted DEs
We are definitely lacking at LB but we have a deep secondary and D-Line.
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:27 PM    (permalink
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We are deep at DE. DT not so much.
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Old 12-19-2011, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts on Prince guys? Didn't focus on him during the skins game because it was too depressing.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Thoughts on Prince guys? Didn't focus on him during the skins game because it was too depressing.
He looks confused, scared, and out of place. Quite frankly I'm not surprised, he isn't being used to his abilities and without having much time to learn his assignments I feel that he is struggling to know what he needs to do. When you don't know what you need to do then how can you play at full speed? You can't. Give him a man, he will be fine, give him a zone or a read coverage, then you might be in trouble.

Look around the league, it's the same thing. If you simplify things for players, they can build up their confidence and play instinctively. Do you think that Cam Newton or Tim Teebow started off with the full playbook? absolutely not. It was simplified for them so they could learn progressively.

I've seen enough from Prince that I can tell that he will be fine. He has the size, speed, and fluidity to be a good corner in the league. He just has been having growing pains, and while a fan and teammate (Rolle and Grant) may voice their negative opinions of him, you have to understand that this is his preseason, he never had the learning period that other players have had, and this offseason was shortened quite a bit, he wasn't even allowed a playbook until the lockout ended.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:53 PM    (permalink
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I think prince will be fine, he just needs to learn and adjust to the NFL. Basically the lack off offseason combined with his late signing and injury hurt him.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:05 AM    (permalink
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We are definitely lacking at LB but we have a deep secondary and D-Line.
We've got depth at DE. DT and CB is reasonable.

I think you could probably argue that our DE production has been rather ordinary this year, so perhaps it isn't enough? Sure there have been injuries, but that's football. We are a team reliant on our pass rush. I don't understand why Kiwanuka hasnt been moved back to DE full time, other than our LBs are terrible.

I would call safety average. Sure Phillips and Rolle are decent but there isn't much behind them.

On offense I think we haven't done enough succession planning despite having aging guys like McKenzie, O'Hara, Seubert etc. We largely focused on having adequate backups rather than grooming talented future starters behind our starters. I really like the way we have groomed Petrus, pity we haven't done more of that.
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Old 12-20-2011, 12:21 AM    (permalink
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Reese is going nowhere, especially after getting us JPP and Nicks. He's one of the best GM's in football.
There is also a lot he had missed. His failure to adequately address LB over his whole tenure is a good example.

I may be in the minority, but I think part of the issues are related to the talent we have on the roster.

I think the team needs a shake up, but we also have a good foundation,

For example, I'd rather see Coughlin as GM, maybe bring in Spagnuolo as head coach, let Gilbride operate the offense and maybe bring in Del Rio as defensive coordinator.
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Old 12-20-2011, 01:53 AM    (permalink
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There is also a lot he had missed. His failure to adequately address LB over his whole tenure is a good example.

I may be in the minority, but I think part of the issues are related to the talent we have on the roster.

I think the team needs a shake up, but we also have a good foundation,

For example, I'd rather see Coughlin as GM, maybe bring in Spagnuolo as head coach, let Gilbride operate the offense and maybe bring in Del Rio as defensive coordinator.
Reese is one of the best GM's in the league. You don't fire one of the best GM's in the league. And he's done a pretty solid job of addressing LB's. He brought in Boley who overall has been very good in his time as a Giant. Goff was going to be a really solid player for us too. That and if you read about the speculation on draft day we've been looking to upgrade the LB position early in the draft for a while but the value has never lined up and Reese typically always goes BPA instead of reaching.

This roster is loaded with talent, which means the problem is directly correlates to a coaching problem - which makes the most sense. We're playing a defensive scheme that doesn't fit our players. Our offense is arguably the most complicated in the NFL which leads to issues across the board.

Sure, Reese has missed on some players, but even the best GM's are going to miss on players. At the end of the day he's stocked our roster with a lot of great young talent through the draft. If you have a GM who can build through the draft you can be a perennial great team. Most of our woes have come from poor play down the stretch (emphasizing the poor coaching issue) and an inability to play at a high level against inferior competition (again, another coaching issue). I like Tom Coughlin a lot but his choice of coordinators outside of Spags has been piss poor.

Give me Spags and Norv Turner this off-season. I'd be a very happy man if that occurred.
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Old 12-20-2011, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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Norv Turner would be awesome! Please give me turner! Pleaseeeee!! Give me spags as the HC/DC if he can't be DC, then hire an experienced HC. Give me an older DC one like Wade Philips, who won't be HC for a while now, or ever. So at least we have stability on that side of the ball.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:47 PM    (permalink
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If Coughlin stays as head coach, My ideal coaching staff would be with Norv Turner as offensive coordinator and Romeo Crennel as defensive coordinator.

I think that's unlikely, after all with the season Manning is having, there is no way Gilbride gets fired. The only way I see him leaving is if he gets a head coaching gig (maybe Jacksonville?).

Fewell and Quinn are on the way out in my opinion.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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No way Romeo would be DC. First, because I hope he gets the KC head coach job. But he's also 64, I don't think he wants to wait 2+ years while we get the players to properly run a 3-4 defense.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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I hope we stick with the 4-3. I don't want to transition to a 3-4 while wasting Eli's prime years.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:18 PM    (permalink
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I hope we stick with the 4-3. I don't want to transition to a 3-4 while wasting Eli's prime years.
I'd agree if we were tearing it up in 43 system. However, our 43 defense is pathetic! Right now, I am open to ANYTHING. We could stick to the 43 and have musical coordinators and mess up that way. So I am game for any change at this point.
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Old 12-20-2011, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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I'd agree if we were tearing it up in 43 system. However, our 43 defense is pathetic! Right now, I am open to ANYTHING. We could stick to the 43 and have musical coordinators and mess up that way. So I am game for any change at this point.
We just need the right coaching. The talent is there.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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We just need the right coaching. The talent is there.
Well that's been the case for a while. However, time and time again we showed we can mess up coordinator picks. So that's why at this point I am down for anything, even if that means a new coach AND system.
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:31 PM    (permalink
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I'd agree if we were tearing it up in 43 system. However, our 43 defense is pathetic! Right now, I am open to ANYTHING. We could stick to the 43 and have musical coordinators and mess up that way. So I am game for any change at this point.
Do we even run a true 4-3 anymore? I mean seriously, Perry has turned it into a 4-2-5 and it's awful. The 4-3 has worked for us, but we have used the 4-2-5 as our base a lot this year and when we go to that 3-3-5 or 3-2-6 on 3rd downs we suck even more. The 43 is not the problem, it's the coaching and loss of depth/key players due to injury. With our defense at full strength and Spags, we could easily be a top defense in this league.

Also, can someone find me a stat of our 3rd down conversion rate on O and D, like how often we convert and how often we let them? Cause my guess is we're in the bottom 5 for both.
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Old 12-21-2011, 12:19 PM    (permalink
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Do we even run a true 4-3 anymore? I mean seriously, Perry has turned it into a 4-2-5 and it's awful. The 4-3 has worked for us, but we have used the 4-2-5 as our base a lot this year and when we go to that 3-3-5 or 3-2-6 on 3rd downs we suck even more. The 43 is not the problem, it's the coaching and loss of depth/key players due to injury. With our defense at full strength and Spags, we could easily be a top defense in this league.

Also, can someone find me a stat of our 3rd down conversion rate on O and D, like how often we convert and how often we let them? Cause my guess is we're in the bottom 5 for both.


God knows.. At this point I gave up! That's like Gilbride running the spread one week, zone option the other, and then smash mouth the next! HS football!

Lewis with the hybrid defense, Sheridan with the amoeba, standing around confused and then rush defense, and now god knows. So my point is aren't we wasting Eli's good years now with this? At this juncture, if it means clean sweep, install and implement a 34 I am down for it.

Anything and everything is an option.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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This team is a joke. Gutless, heartless, mentally weak, and just the definition of average.

The coaching staff is a joke, the leadership is a joke, everything's a joke. Justin Tuck does not deserve to be a captain on this team. It's an example of the team thinking it can make it's best player a captain. He's not a captain. Not even close. All he does is pout.

We need a lot on this team. The front 7 is soft. Go watch the games over again. You'll see 3 linebackers who wait for the RB to come to them instead of hitting the gaps with authority. We have soft crappy linebackers, thats why our front 7 is soft.

Bc our LBs are crap, we have poor tackling. Tackling from the LB core and secondary is pathetic. If you can't tackle, and you can't defend gaps, you're going to be a bad defense.

The scheme is horrible. You can't play zone defense with horrible linebackers. Linebackers patrol the middle of the field in zone, if you have no coverage in the middle of the field, how do you expect to stop anybody?

And surprise surprise guys, what have we been talking about for years now? THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD IS WIDE OPEN AGAINST THE GIANTS.

This isn't something new. It's been a problem for 4 years running.

We need a new coaching staff, and we need linebackers. Linebackers linebackers linebackers.

Leadership generally comes from your LB core, tackling and physicality usually comes from your LB core, intermediate and middle coverage, and run stuffing comes from your LB core.

What are we lacking? Leadership, tackling, physicality, and run stuffing. And intermediate coverage.

WE NEED LINEBACKERS. Not 1, not 2, **** it, get 3 of em. WE NEED LINEBACKERS.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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The only ones I would keep are Boley and then Herzlich for depth. Also Williams if he can continue to develop as depth. I was actually decently impressed with Herzlich when he played. The little he did before he got hurt.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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Boley is a good linebacker who gives us speed and coverage, but he has his warts too.

He's a finesse linebacker, he's not going to fight in the phonebooth in the run game/screen game. He's not a great tackler. He's a lightweight.

There are other linebackers out there that can give us his coverage and some toughness on top of that. We need all around linebackers.

Boley is a glorified nickel LB. He's a good LB, and when healthy easily the best on our team, but I'm starting to think that we might be overrating him a bit too.

Do I want to get rid of him? Absolutely not. He's going to be a starter next year no question. But I definitely want 2 other LBs starting next to him. And high round picks. Impact linebackers.

We need 2 of them. Not just 1.
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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We should keep Chase Blackburn too because he is ******* awesome.

But I agree, can we get a ******* smash mouth LB who's gonna talk **** and make the hit? I thought we had that in Greg Jones...but then he sucked :(
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Old 12-21-2011, 02:59 PM    (permalink
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Kuechly is one I hope.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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We should keep Chase Blackburn too because he is ******* awesome.

But I agree, can we get a ******* smash mouth LB who's gonna talk **** and make the hit? I thought we had that in Greg Jones...but then he sucked :(
Yes he does. I thought Herzlich was significantly better.
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Old 12-21-2011, 03:03 PM    (permalink
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Yes he does. I thought Herzlich was significantly better.
I agree. The further he gets away from the Chemo the more he can build his body nack up as well. That **** kills everything in you that's good so his mucles are still re-learning to build strength and other things like that in his body. Kuechly/Herzlich would be a nice duo.
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