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Old 12-24-2011, 11:27 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I remember 3 snaps in particular with Prince. 1 was the play vs Plax where he got beat but Plax was dumb and pushed off when he didn't need to.

Another was when he was in press man vs Santonio (or was it Plax?) and got beat on a skinny post but Sanchez didn't see it.

The other was a play where KP was yelling at him before the snap, the play resulted in an incomplete, but Prince didn't see the field after that snap.


So yeah...I'm concerned. He's definitely not a zone defender, and he has some skills to play press man, but his short arms are haunting him a little, and I don't like how he sinks his hips or changes direction. He's a little stiff. He reminds me of Ross.

So yeah, I'm worried.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:37 AM    (permalink
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Good game guys. Cruz is a monster and JPP is literally a freak.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:45 AM    (permalink
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Geez BBD besides the JPP thing I disagree with you on everything.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:14 AM    (permalink
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I remember 3 snaps in particular with Prince. 1 was the play vs Plax where he got beat but Plax was dumb and pushed off when he didn't need to.

Another was when he was in press man vs Santonio (or was it Plax?) and got beat on a skinny post but Sanchez didn't see it.

The other was a play where KP was yelling at him before the snap, the play resulted in an incomplete, but Prince didn't see the field after that snap.


So yeah...I'm concerned. He's definitely not a zone defender, and he has some skills to play press man, but his short arms are haunting him a little, and I don't like how he sinks his hips or changes direction. He's a little stiff. He reminds me of Ross.

So yeah, I'm worried.
Don't overreact so much, BBD, haha. He's a rookie who had no off-season and was hurt almost the entire season. That and he's been forced into an overly complex defensive scheme as a rookie. I have really high hopes for Prince and think he's going to be a stud.

I think you're judging him a little to harshly, all things considered. Also, Jernigan who you said was basically already Sinorice Moss and a bust has proven himself to be a pretty good kick returner and has seen a lot more action lately. He's coming along nicely considering he's a third round pick, and a rookie.

We judge rookies way too harshly at times. Most rookies take a couple years to fully reach their potential. Not everyone is Cam Newton or Joe Thomas. Not everyone steps in and looks like studs on day one. Lets give the rookies and youngsters a break.
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Old 12-25-2011, 10:03 AM    (permalink
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CHASE BLACKBURN WAS AWSEOME
except his dumb penalty

and tollefson played well too.

i love my white defenders
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Old 12-25-2011, 11:24 AM    (permalink
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:31 PM    (permalink
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Posted this in another forum where jets fans were saying every call was right:



Instead of not supporting any of your opinions, I have evidence to all of my assertions. First off, Revis got away with murder. He interfered with Nicks all game, Barden once by pulling his jersey to decrease the separation between them. This is pass interference, by the rule you are not allowed to alter or prohibit a receiver after 5 yards or when the ball is in the air. These pictures show that Nicks had his arms held back, much like Cruz had versus Kyle Wilson on a third down play that was even more blatantly clear than Revis's.

Then you see on the play of the interception that Revis hooked him and turned him, you are allowed to have one hand on a receiver, but you are not allowed to hook and turn, at that point it becomes pass interference because the receiver's route has been altered past 5 yards AND as the ball was in the air. Revis is a good player, but he has taken advantage of the refs not calling penalties on him to help his coverage.

Plaxico's penalty was a clear foul, not a call that doesn't get called by refs as many of you have said. He pushed off using his hand and arm while prince was in great coverage. Blatant offensive pass interference.

Probably the stupidest call was the overturn on the Kerley fumble. "his elbow was down" you say, well look at the pictures. The ball moves as the forearm hits the foot, so the point of the elbow, which cannot be clearly seen as touching the turf or still on Rolle's foot, doesn't matter at all. The fumble starts when the ball moves thats simple, right? If you say no look at both angles in synchronized time, the ball moves at the same time the forearm is on Rolles foot, just fractions of a second before the point comes even close to the ground. Ontop of that, was there irrefutable evidence that the elbow touched the ground? Absolutely not, it is not clear at all, and by the lack of evidence the call should stay as is. The reason why they didn't call it, imo, is that they didn't want this to determine the game.

The Sanchez fumble caused by JPP was a legitimate fumble, the throwing process was done, he didn't try to bring the ball to his body (as the rule states) and was keeping it out but with his wrist turned in a carrying position. Fumble, Tuck rule does not apply if the QB isn't trying to bring it to his body.

The second sanchez fumble looks like a fumble, its really close. At first I thought the refs were incredibly stupid because it looked like Sanchez was throwing. But at a second glance, the ball never leaves his hand going forward, not a forward pass. As Linval Joseph bats it out, regardless if its a pass, it is a backward pass because it is never making forward progress from the release point. Come to think of it, this same thing happened to me in madden and I challenged it and it was not overturned.

For the Green Bay fan that complains about people complaining: Look at the pictures in the NY daily news of Ballard's TD, look at Finley hold Williams on a 3rd and long that we got a sack on, look at Greg Jennings's feet as he gains "some" possession when Prince knocks it out (he only has one down during that duration). The only reason you beat the giants was the referees.
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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I thought they called the Plaxico interference when it happened?
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Old 12-25-2011, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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They did. Also, those two fumbles were not fumbles according to the rules so I'm not sure what you're arguing, Ballin. The rule is stupid, but it is what it is. The only one that was an issue was the Kerley fumble. They should not have overturned it. You can't tell me it was 100% definitive that his arm hit the ground, so there was no reason to overturn it.

There were a lot of bad calls against the Giants, but that's fine. It's part of the game now. We've been the beneficiary of plenty of bad calls for opposing teams in other games, so it's not an excuse. We also made several dumb penalties and decisions that made the game closer than it had to be.

It was a good game. I'm excited. A win is a win, and I felt like we showed up and earned it. It's why I was so alarmed to see so many Giants fans being negative after the game. Lets be positive! We've got big momentum going forward into an absolutely huge game. We typically show up in huge games and it doesn't get much bigger than this.

I'm so pumped because I'll be going to the game next week. I can't wait!!
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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I am very happy! Even if we don't do much next game, I am content. We needed to come out and play for pride and shut the Jets up! I wished Jacobs would have decked Ryan! That would have been great.

Good win, it was tough, and we still have morons running wrong routes. I am SOO tired of that! Also, we had a chance to go 24-7, and we called Bush league plays.

I still want a clean state!
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:38 AM    (permalink
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They did. Also, those two fumbles were not fumbles according to the rules so I'm not sure what you're arguing, Ballin. The rule is stupid, but it is what it is. The only one that was an issue was the Kerley fumble. They should not have overturned it. You can't tell me it was 100% definitive that his arm hit the ground, so there was no reason to overturn it.

There were a lot of bad calls against the Giants, but that's fine. It's part of the game now. We've been the beneficiary of plenty of bad calls for opposing teams in other games, so it's not an excuse. We also made several dumb penalties and decisions that made the game closer than it had to be.

It was a good game. I'm excited. A win is a win, and I felt like we showed up and earned it. It's why I was so alarmed to see so many Giants fans being negative after the game. Lets be positive! We've got big momentum going forward into an absolutely huge game. We typically show up in huge games and it doesn't get much bigger than this.

I'm so pumped because I'll be going to the game next week. I can't wait!!
The one that was overruled because of the Tuck rule was stupid because he really wasn't trying to draw it closer to his body, which is what the rule says. He was in the grasp, done with his throwing motion, and about to go down.

The second one i didn't have much of a problem with, but it is still controversial. The ball never leaves Sanchez's hand until LJ hits it, then its motion is completely backwards, would that not be a backwards pass? I know he's not intending it to go backward, but if they are ruling it an incomplete pass how is it possible when the ball never goes forward from the release point? Think about it.

One of my friends who is not a giants fan said this: In basketball the shot is not actually a shot until it leaves the guy's hands (it must be released before no time remaining for a basket to count). So In football shouldn't not be a pass unless the ball leaves the quarterback's hands?

Feel the same way on the Kerley pass.

Nicks has not been getting PI calls, and its not like they are barely a factor, they are blatant and pretty big PI's.
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Old 12-26-2011, 02:23 PM    (permalink
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Posted this in another forum where jets fans were saying every call was right:



Instead of not supporting any of your opinions, I have evidence to all of my assertions. First off, Revis got away with murder. He interfered with Nicks all game, Barden once by pulling his jersey to decrease the separation between them. This is pass interference, by the rule you are not allowed to alter or prohibit a receiver after 5 yards or when the ball is in the air. These pictures show that Nicks had his arms held back, much like Cruz had versus Kyle Wilson on a third down play that was even more blatantly clear than Revis's.

Then you see on the play of the interception that Revis hooked him and turned him, you are allowed to have one hand on a receiver, but you are not allowed to hook and turn, at that point it becomes pass interference because the receiver's route has been altered past 5 yards AND as the ball was in the air. Revis is a good player, but he has taken advantage of the refs not calling penalties on him to help his coverage.

Plaxico's penalty was a clear foul, not a call that doesn't get called by refs as many of you have said. He pushed off using his hand and arm while prince was in great coverage. Blatant offensive pass interference.

Probably the stupidest call was the overturn on the Kerley fumble. "his elbow was down" you say, well look at the pictures. The ball moves as the forearm hits the foot, so the point of the elbow, which cannot be clearly seen as touching the turf or still on Rolle's foot, doesn't matter at all. The fumble starts when the ball moves thats simple, right? If you say no look at both angles in synchronized time, the ball moves at the same time the forearm is on Rolles foot, just fractions of a second before the point comes even close to the ground. Ontop of that, was there irrefutable evidence that the elbow touched the ground? Absolutely not, it is not clear at all, and by the lack of evidence the call should stay as is. The reason why they didn't call it, imo, is that they didn't want this to determine the game.

The Sanchez fumble caused by JPP was a legitimate fumble, the throwing process was done, he didn't try to bring the ball to his body (as the rule states) and was keeping it out but with his wrist turned in a carrying position. Fumble, Tuck rule does not apply if the QB isn't trying to bring it to his body.

The second sanchez fumble looks like a fumble, its really close. At first I thought the refs were incredibly stupid because it looked like Sanchez was throwing. But at a second glance, the ball never leaves his hand going forward, not a forward pass. As Linval Joseph bats it out, regardless if its a pass, it is a backward pass because it is never making forward progress from the release point. Come to think of it, this same thing happened to me in madden and I challenged it and it was not overturned.

For the Green Bay fan that complains about people complaining: Look at the pictures in the NY daily news of Ballard's TD, look at Finley hold Williams on a 3rd and long that we got a sack on, look at Greg Jennings's feet as he gains "some" possession when Prince knocks it out (he only has one down during that duration). The only reason you beat the giants was the referees.
Revis is smart. Every great CB (including Deion) grabbed a lot. Rex teaches his CBs to grab a lot. Bc refs aren't going to throw the flag every play. More often than not, they'll let you get away with it bc they don't want to turn a game into a flag fest.

But Revis is smart about how he does it. He's pretty slick about it. And within 5 yards, he'll rape you, which is what you should do as a defender.

And you're allowed to put your arm on a guy as long as you don't push off with it. He wraps around guys to get a feel for where their body is going to move. Your muscles clench and give away which direction you're going. It's why basketball defenders put their hands on your hip so they know where you're going.

And he does do a lot of illegal "touching" but the way he does it, it's hard to call. He's slick about it most of the time. It's just smart CB play. I love it.
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Old 12-26-2011, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Revis is smart. Every great CB (including Deion) grabbed a lot. Rex teaches his CBs to grab a lot. Bc refs aren't going to throw the flag every play. More often than not, they'll let you get away with it bc they don't want to turn a game into a flag fest.

But Revis is smart about how he does it. He's pretty slick about it. And within 5 yards, he'll rape you, which is what you should do as a defender.

And you're allowed to put your arm on a guy as long as you don't push off with it. He wraps around guys to get a feel for where their body is going to move. Your muscles clench and give away which direction you're going. It's why basketball defenders put their hands on your hip so they know where you're going.

And he does do a lot of illegal "touching" but the way he does it, it's hard to call. He's slick about it most of the time. It's just smart CB play. I love it.
yeah BBD, but those two plays on Nicks are legitimately PI. Revis went on air with Francesca to talk about the 100 yard interception return he had against the dolphins and couldn't dispute that he interfered with Marshall on the play.

You can't turn the WR, which he did on the pick (I show two pictures, one is with nicks on an angle and the other is nicks more straight due to Revis using Nicks to fling himself for the PD). Revis can't defy physics as good as he is, that play can only be made if you impede the receiver and use their body to fling yourself over their body.

The play on the endzone slant close, but it wasn't that close that you couldn't tell that he was being interfered with. Revis used one hand to pull Nick's left arm down and the other hand to secure a hit and pull nicks's body down.

I think he is a very good player no doubt, he is always near his receiver and in good coverage, but he uses PI to become superman. Against Barden he had a less obvious PI (holding onto his jersey and hip to prevent separation), which is just him being smart as you said.
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Old 12-26-2011, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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Default Ndamukong Suh returns against Oakland Raiders

Ndamukong Suh returns against Oakland Raiders

Suh, last year's Defensive Rookie of the Year, is back from a two-game suspension for stomping on Green Bay lineman Evan Dietrich-Smith on national television on Thanksgiving Day.

Carlisle was asked if he might try to antagonize a guy with a temper to knock him off his game.

&quot;I don't think so,&quot; he said, laughing. &quot;I don't think so.&quot;

What's no laughing matter is the importance of Sunday's game at the Coliseum for both Okaland Raiders (7-6) and Detroit (8-5), and both teams' playoff chances could hinge on how successfully the Raiders deal with the 6-foot-4, 307-pound Suh.

Suh had 10 sacks last year in making the Pro Bowl, but has only three this season as he has faced more double teams. Carlisle will surely get a hand from center Samson Satele, as the Raiders try to get their running game going after three subpar weeks.

Suh was not the only person to earn redemption Sunday.

Detroit Lions receiver Calvin Johnson had struggled statistically since the bye week (Nov. 6), but roared back with nine receptions for 214 yards and two touchdowns in the win. Oakland played man-to-man coverage on Johnson, and he made the Raiders pay.
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Old 12-27-2011, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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I'm nervous about this game for several reasons.

1. It's asking an awful lot from the Giants to beat the Cowboys twice. It's never easy beating a division rival twice, especially one that is on par if not more talented than your team.

2. We suck at home this year. I actually rather play this game in Dallas. We own the Cowboys on their turf. At home, I believe they beat us more than we beat them.

3. The media is picking us. We always suck when we are the favorite. This team just doesn't know how to win unless we're in the underdog role.

4. We just came off an emotional win. The Giants ALWAYS follow that up with a poor game. Always.

5. We are so damn inconsistent, watch us lay a complete egg vs the Cowboys.

6. Perry Fewell

7. Kevin Gilbride

8. Our run defense

9. Our run offense

10. No Jake Ballard is a huge blow to our offense. Pascoe and Beckum are a joke.

I dunno guys, I just don't like this game at all. We know our team. It has all the ingredients of a typical Giant let down game.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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This is arguably the biggest regular season game we've played in a LONG time. If we can't show up for this then I don't know what to say. I think the team will show up, though.

I'm feeling confident about this game. They have almost no running attack, Romo is dinged up, their secondary has issues, and we're playing at home. I think the Cowboys and Giants are very similar in terms of talent level so it would not surprise me to see them win but we have a lot of things going for us too.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:17 AM    (permalink
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That's what makes me nervous. The fact that we have so many things going our way heading into the game.

When was the last time this type of scenario actually worked out for us? We almost always lose when the stars align in our favor.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Eh, you're probably right to an extent but I've never been a big believer in curses or jinx's. Every game is different. Every year is different. If we were facing the Rams or some other awful team then I'd say sure, this is the perfect time for a let down game.

We're facing a division rival on national television in a win or go home scenario. They have to show up or Coughlin clearly isn't doing his job and should be fired regardless.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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The major question to me is defensively, will we continue with a more simplified approach that doesn't use as much zone? Or will we go back to the infamous rush 3 cover 2?

And offensively, we desperately miss Ballard in the middle of the field, and it's obvious we don't have a 3rd WR who's dependable when Mario can't go. So will both be a go for Sunday? And if not, can we score enough to make up for it?
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:28 AM    (permalink
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My biggest question is the defense too. I've really never understood why coaches can't see what they're doing isn't working, especially when there is a huge sample size of it not working, and they still do nothing to fix it.

Is it because they have huge egos? Are they just insane, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? I mean, if I'm a coordinator and I know I have good players and my defense is getting torched I'm going to at least TRY to make some changes, regardless of how small they are. I understand you can't overhaul the entire thing overnight, but there is no reason you can't mix it up.

It's not just Fewell, either. It's a lot of coaches on both sides of the ball.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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if fewell and this D don't come out fired up and attacking then head will roll. Tuck was an animal against the Jets and he already came out reminding us how much he hates the cowboys. a healthy (and fired up) Tuck is HUGE for us. Never thought I'd say this, but big mouth Antrel calling this team out may have been one of the best things for us. The D showed heart last week. It was against a **** Jets offense, but still
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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Antrelle Rolle is more of a leader than Tuck is. Tuck is not a leader. At all.

Chewing on your mouth piece and sulking on the bench alone when your unit just got their teeth kicked in is not leadership. And Tuck does that all the time.

We need a vocal linebacker. Bc Rolle is a safety, he doesn't have enough bite to his bark. But Rolle is the most vocal leader we have on defense.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Haha, I'm listening to Rolle right now on WFAN. I love him. He doesn't BS at all. He even says he knows he can be a loud mouth and that any criticisms people make about him regarding his big mouth he brings on himself.

It's kind of refreshing for a guy not to just blame the media or being taken out of context for the stuff he says. He seems pretty cool.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I can't wait for the game either but I really have no feeling either way on it. I'm just goingo to enjoy the build up and yell my ass off when I'm there Sunday night.
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Old 12-27-2011, 12:48 PM    (permalink
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The fact that the opponent is the Cowboys makes me more confident. We never lay a complete egg against them. When we do lose, it is normally and a high scoring game for both teams. We don't ever overlook them. How could you in a situation like this?

Obviously not to look too forward, but I actually think the NFC playoff picture is as favorable as it could be in my opinion. Not that it is really favorable at all, but if we win and get in, we would potentially avoid going to New Orleans. But again I shouldn't be thinking these things.

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