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Old 01-04-2012, 03:32 PM    (permalink
the_dark_knight
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
Cruz had a better season than Whote and Nicks had a better season than Jones so I'm not sure how you guys get the edge. At worst it's a push.
The more you look into it the more you can see how close this is, I give the edge to Atlanta due to my affinity for the team, maybe this should be a push instead. I still like Roddy more than Cruz, despite Cruz having a better year production wise, and I'd still take Julio over Nicks, and honestly between harry and mario I couldn't care who I got both are really good slot guys.

I had a big long write up comparing production, but basically it boils down to, Roddy's done it longer against double coverage than Cruz has, and Jones has been a man child of late rounding out the season with 8 touchdowns in his last 7 games, more than Nicks had in 16 games.

The yardage can be such an inflated stat, especially for a team who was playing from behind a lot, and without their starting RB. They had to throw, while Atlanta threw a lot too, don't get me wrong, when you're throwing for comebacks, vs throwing to move the chains, you're playing 2 different games with route combos, and trying to milk clock vs trying to conserve it and get big chunk plays.

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Old 01-04-2012, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Yeah he's been hurt. But we know he can be a quality WR. Douglas had his best season this year. 39 catches 498 yards. Which is basically what Mario did, but we know Mario can be better.
You can say that for Harry too, look at what he did when given the opportunity to be a bigger part of the offense was Jones was out, he stepped up and made plays and kept things moving for Atlanta. He's a stud, but we have a BUM of an Offensive coordinator, not to mention the fact he's the #4 WR for ATL.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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You can say that for Harry too, look at what he did when given the opportunity to be a bigger part of the offense was Jones was out, he stepped up and made plays and kept things moving for Atlanta. He's a stud, but we have a BUM of an Offensive coordinator, not to mention the fact he's the #4 WR for ATL.
I don't think you can say Harry is a stud. Mario has started in this league before and played decently well. It just happens we have 2 better WRs. Apparently Atlanta did not think Harry is a stud otherwise they wouldn't have traded their whole draft for Julio.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:42 PM    (permalink
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Btw, can we all finally agree and put an end to the Ramses Barden is good train?

I think it's official that he sucks now. He's had more than enough time and opportunities to make his presence felt as our 3rd WR and bombed every time.
I'm being 100% serious when I say he's showed what I want to see this year. I expect a good year next year from Barden. If Mario leaves he'll be a perfect #3.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:45 PM    (permalink
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I think the fact that even when he was the 3rd WR for a game, he barely saw the field says enough. They'd split Ballard out wide before putting Barden out there. Beckum sees the field more.
Barden has better stats this year and he was out half the year. Beckum is garbage. Ballard is actually a good TE despite him being slow as **** and that's why he's on the field more.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:46 PM    (permalink
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I don't think you can say Harry is a stud. Mario has started in this league before and played decently well. It just happens we have 2 better WRs. Apparently Atlanta did not think Harry is a stud otherwise they wouldn't have traded their whole draft for Julio.
Okay, maybe I should say stud slot guy. But when asked to start Harry was extremely productive, and when going in for an injured Julio Jones he really stepped it up. Harry has been a spot starter and has done well whenever he's been given the opportunity. Last year he struggled a bit with drops, but it was mostly getting back into football shape and getting into the flow. This season he hasn't had that problem and has really proved his worth. Not to many 5th options in your offense will come up with 500 yards for your team on the season. Especially not in a more ball control style of offense like Mularkey likes to run.

But you're right if he was just a pure 'stud' he'd be starting. But he's a stud for his position, much like I think Mario is a stud slot guy.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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Barden has better stats this year and he was out half the year. Beckum is garbage. Ballard is actually a good TE despite him being slow as **** and that's why he's on the field more.
I'm really sad to read that. I liked him, and I think he's got potential to be a very good TE, never elite, but I thought he was going to be good. Maybe he just need a bit more time to really find a spot, or maybe he just doesn't really fit what you guys do with TEs?

I haven't watched the Giants a lot this year, mostly just redzone channel, so I can't speak for their entire games and gameplans. But I really thought he'd be a pretty solid TE. I mean I don't know why you guys didn't keep Kevin Boss, but I thought he'd make a nice transition.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Barden has better stats this year and he was out half the year. Beckum is garbage. Ballard is actually a good TE despite him being slow as **** and that's why he's on the field more.
They are both garbage. But the coaching staff apparently thinks one is worse than the other.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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Beckum doesn't fit what we do but I'm not sure how much better off he'd be with another team. He just flat out can't play as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:51 PM    (permalink
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Beckum doesn't fit what we do but I'm not sure how much better off he'd be with another team. He just flat out can't play as far as I'm concerned.
So what does that say about Barden then if the coaches put Beckum split out wide on the field more than him?
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:55 PM    (permalink
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They are both garbage. But the coaching staff apparently thinks one is worse than the other.
There is no reason for Barden to see the field right now. When he gets playing time Eli targets him a good amount which shows me he's doing positive things on the field. I expect a 45-50 catch season from Barden next year.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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So what does that say about Barden then if the coaches put Beckum split out wide on the field more than him?
Do you have numbers to back this up? I haven't seen Beckum on the field very often in the last month.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Do you have numbers to back this up? I haven't seen Beckum on the field very often in the last month.
Jake Ballard paced the Giants’ offense with 77 snaps this weekend. Bear Pascoe worked 23 snaps, while Travis Beckum handled seven prior to an injury. Victor Cruz led the wideouts with 72 snaps played. Hakeem Nicks was in on 69 plays and Mario Manningham worked just 32. Ramses Barden saw only one snap. Ahmad Bradshaw sat out the entire first half due to suspension, but still played 28 snaps in the second half. Brandon Jacobs was in on 28 plays, as well. DJ Ware handled 22.

That's the first Cowboys game.

Hakeem Nicks paced the wideouts with 69 snaps, four more than Victor Cruz. Each ran 40 pass routes. Mario Manningham saw 30 snaps. Devin Thomas got in for one play. Travis Beckum edged Bear Pascoe for snaps at tight end, 40-38. Ahmad Bradhaw got double the snaps of Brandon Jacobs, 34-17, even though New York led throughout. Danny Ware got in for 19 plays. Fullback Henry Hynoski saw 31 snaps.

That's the second, but it's not really fair with Ballard hurt.

In those two games Barden saw the field for a whopping total of 1 play.
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Old 01-04-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Beckum doesn't fit what we do but I'm not sure how much better off he'd be with another team. He just flat out can't play as far as I'm concerned.
Ah, well that sucks. Would he be better suited in a place like Indy backing up and learning from Dallas Clark to take over that type role? That's sort of what I saw him as in college.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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Barden did see 13 snaps vs the Redskins, but that was with Thomas, Ballard, and Beckum all out.

Beckum played more than Barden too against the Jets with both Ballard and Mario out. I can't find a breakdown of where Beckum lined up on plays but that's just from memory.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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Barden played a ton in the Jets game though and Beckum I don't remember seeing often. I really think Barden can still be a good player. I'll be giving him one more year.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Not to mention, Barden was a healthy scratch vs the Cowboys in week 17 supposedly bc he's in the dog house.

Devin Thomas and Jernigan both saw more snaps than Barden with the season on the line. That says a lot.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Barden played a ton in the Jets game though and Beckum I don't remember seeing often. I really think Barden can still be a good player. I'll be giving him one more year.
29-19 Beckum. But again that is with guys out ahead of both of them.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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We'll see. Barden has been on the field less then and still has 10 more targets on the year than Beckum. You guys may definitely be right about Barden but I'm willing to give him one more year. He can be the next guy to step up if Mario walks.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:14 PM    (permalink
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I'm willing to give him 1 more year (next year is a make or break year for him though) but I wouldn't invest all my eggs in his basket.

If we can't re-sign Mario, we better look for a viable replacement, bc as far as I'm concerned, the replacement is not in house and they should not assume so themselves either.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm willing to give him 1 more year (next year is a make or break year for him though) but I wouldn't invest all my eggs in his basket.

If we can't re-sign Mario, we better look for a viable replacement, bc as far as I'm concerned, the replacement is not in house and they should not assume so themselves either.
Agreed. This won't happen, but for some reason I was thinking about Reggie Wayne going from playing with one Manning to the other.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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I'll throw Barden to the wolves if Sanu is there in the 2nd for us.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:17 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. This won't happen, but for some reason I was thinking about Reggie Wayne going from playing with one Manning to the other.
I wouldn't mind Reggie. But I just prefer youth. Cheaper and will give us more years.

Sanu is looking kind of sexy right now.
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I wouldn't mind Reggie. But I just prefer youth. Cheaper and will give us more years.

Sanu is looking kind of sexy right now.
Yeah but we with two guys like Nicks and Cruz already at the top I feel like that's a wasted pick. A great problem to have, but we aren't without problems that we can really be storing talent at other positions.

I just wonder what type of market Wayne will have. Would he accept a 2 year deal? Would he want to play with a rookie (even if it's sexy Luck), at this stage of his career?
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Old 01-04-2012, 04:21 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't take Sanu in the 1st because we have bigger needs like you said. As for Wayne it all depends. If Peyton is QB he might want to just stay and finish out his career in Indy. If Luck is QB then he may not want to be there with a rookie QB taking his lumps. I think we might be able to get him to sign a 2 year deal. NFL contract lengths don't matter that much anyway.
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