New York Giants Discussion

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Khassem Greene is the convert safety who was DPOY Big east last year at LB. He'd fill the Grant role perfectly if we feel Sash can't do it or want to duplicate it with Greene. Beauharnis is a more traditional LBer whom I LOVE. Probably a 4th round guy at this point IMO, but i love him. Just a great all around LBer. Logan Ryan is the next great RU corner. Just so sound in every aspect of the game. All those guys are seniors except Logan, he's a junior. Coleman is a super stud freak...if he puts it together as Zak said. 6'6, blazing speed, freak jumping ability. Gonna be a sophomore this year, so we're all expecting big things

Ryan is already better than DMac. He seriously reminds me of Revis. As for Greene I just don't know. As of last year he was just to small to hold up as an NFL LB. I know he's put on weight this year so let's see if he still has the same speed.

[OSUGiants17]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

It also seems like this move means Williams is on the bench and will be a rotational LB probably mostly in our nickel package.

Which makes me haz a sad. I really liked what I saw from Williams this year. I guess they feel he isn't ready to start just yet. Whatever, next year will be his time to shine.

[Giantsfan1080]

I'm a high fan of Williams also. If they think he might need one more year before he starts that's fine.

[OSUGiants17]

Plus if Rivers get's injured they will have no problem throwing him in there

[bigbluedefense]

I like Williams as well. I actually would prefer Williams over Rivers. Always take youth, especially since he looked so good last year. He's only going to get better with more game time. And he's a great blitzer. Even though he's small, I think he could definitely play SAM in our 43, and OLB in our nickel. He's our best blitzing LB.

As for Osi, I'd say the signs are pointing in the direction of an Osi trade. I think we see a draft day trade with Osi. He's already come out and stated how he wants to start and wants more money etc. I think this is the year we move on from him.

[bigbluedefense]

My guess is we see a draft day trade of Osi, move Kiwi to full time DE as our 3rd DE, and we draft a DE in the 1st or 2nd. Bc Kiwi's contract is coming up too, we're going to go from 4 deep at DE to only having 2 in a year. That's a big hit, they have to start developing a DE sooner than later via the draft.

[Rosebud]

If we trade Osi and move Kiwi to DE then does it matter who's the SAM and who's the WILL between Rivers and Jacquain? Both have the fluidity to cover and both have flashed the ability to get after the QB, although I prefer Williams blitzing.

Even if we don't trade Osi and move Kiwi to DE Rivers injury concerns wouldn't have me too upset with Jacquain starting off on the bench, plus we could take off Joseph for Jacquain instead of going to our big nickel. Slide tuck inside, have Kiwi put his paw in the dirt and play Jacquain somewhere between a SAM and the tweener role Grant played.

[bigbluedefense]

It does matter. Boley is not going to be our MIKE. That's just a smokescreen. He's our WILL. In our nickel he calls the plays, but he still plays WILL. Rivers will probably play SAM in the 4-3, and in the nickel. Chase is probably a 2 down MIKE in our base 4-3. And Williams is going to be on the bench and play when someone is hurt.

[BaLLiN]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Someone brought it up on BBI that maybe all these moves are foreshadowing an Osi deal. Get all these LB's, move Kiwi back to DE full time, trade Osi. I really hope not

Either way you look at it, its not a bad situation.

[Rosebud]

Here's how I see it. We have a few different looks we can use at LB. Boley-Chase-Kiwi, Boley-Chase-Rivers/Williams, Williams-Boley-Rivers, Williams/Rivers-Boley-Kiwi. And that we'll use all of those lineups through the course of the season, even if no one gets hurt. Which one sees the field the most will be decided by the team we're facing, our game plan and which is being the most effective on the field.

[BaLLiN]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

It does matter. Boley is not going to be our MIKE. That's just a smokescreen. He's our WILL. In our nickel he calls the plays, but he still plays WILL. Rivers will probably play SAM in the 4-3, and in the nickel. Chase is probably a 2 down MIKE in our base 4-3. And Williams is going to be on the bench and play when someone is hurt.

I dont want that to happen, Williams was really coming on :/

[bigbluedefense]

You can't just throw 3 OLBs on the field and expect it to work. That's not how LB works. The assignments are different, the type of blocks to shed are different, there's a lot more that goes into it.

Boley can't just slide into MIKE. These aren't checker pieces that you just move around on a board. He has absolutely no MIKE qualities. We'll get eaten alive in the run game if we throw 3 OLBs out there in our base 4-3.

The guys who made the transition from OLB to MIKE are guys who had MIKE ability. Beason, Ryans, these guys had the feet and instincts to play the position, and the explosion and core strength to handle the transition.

Boley is a run and chase guy. He can't play MIKE. Sure on a pass play, he can, but that's only half the battle.

Remember they tried moving Bulluck to MIKE? How did that turn out? It didn't even last throughout PS. It doesn't work. You can't just move OLBs to MIKE.

[Giantsfan1080]

For me it is Ballin. I don't get the Osi hate. So he wants more money, he deserves it. He would start on any other team in the NFL and the idea that he's the worst against the run is also false. We don't get to and win the 2 Super Bowls with out him. More than any other guy we lost he'll hurt the most. They need to re-sign him.

[bigbluedefense]

I would love to keep Osi. I just don't see how it's possible. Osi is our best pure pass rusher.

He's good for 1 sack and turnover a game. You can't put a price on that.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You can't just throw 3 OLBs on the field and expect it to work. That's not how LB works. The assignments are different, the type of blocks to shed are different, there's a lot more that goes into it.

Boley can't just slide into MIKE. These aren't checker pieces that you just move around on a board. He has absolutely no MIKE qualities. We'll get eaten alive in the run game if we throw 3 OLBs out there in our base 4-3.

The guys who made the transition from OLB to MIKE are guys who had MIKE ability. Beason, Ryans, these guys had the feet and instincts to play the position, and the explosion and core strength to handle the transition.

Boley is a run and chase guy. He can't play MIKE. Sure on a pass play, he can, but that's only half the battle.

Remember they tried moving Bulluck to MIKE? How did that turn out? It didn't even last throughout PS. It doesn't work. You can't just move OLBs to MIKE.

We hardly used a Mike the last 2 years. It is easier than you think especially for a student of the game like Boley. The Giants wouldn't move him there on a whim unless they were 100% sure he could make the transition.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

We hardly used a Mike the last 2 years. It is easier than you think especially for a student of the game like Boley. The Giants wouldn't move him there on a whim unless they were 100% sure he could make the transition.

We hardly use a MIKE bc of the scheme, they rather give up some in the run game and put a 3rd safety out there who can defend the deep middle in a Tampa 2 shell.

That doesn't mean we don't want to use a MIKE more, the staff just feels that we're incapable of doing so bc we lack talent there.

Trust me, they don't want to use big nickel as our base defense. They would prefer to use a regular base defense like everyone else, but they just don't have the LBs to do so.

Boley won't play MIKE in a 4-3. Chase will. Boley will call the plays in our nickel, and we'll probably use big nickel even more now than we did last year. But in our base 4-3, Boley will still be on the outside. He won't play the middle. I'll be shocked if he's our starting MIKE in our base 4-3.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You can't just throw 3 OLBs on the field and expect it to work. That's not how LB works. The assignments are different, the type of blocks to shed are different, there's a lot more that goes into it.

Boley can't just slide into MIKE. These aren't checker pieces that you just move around on a board. He has absolutely no MIKE qualities. We'll get eaten alive in the run game if we throw 3 OLBs out there in our base 4-3.

The guys who made the transition from OLB to MIKE are guys who had MIKE ability. Beason, Ryans, these guys had the feet and instincts to play the position, and the explosion and core strength to handle the transition.

Boley is a run and chase guy. He can't play MIKE. Sure on a pass play, he can, but that's only half the battle.

Remember they tried moving Bulluck to MIKE? How did that turn out? It didn't even last throughout PS. It doesn't work. You can't just move OLBs to MIKE.

If it doesn't work it doesn't work, but I just have a feeling that this is something the team has thought about before and they think that Boley has shown that he can read the play from the middle well enough to play there. Do I expect him to become Jon Beason against the run? Of course not, but if he is able to read the flow of the play from there, then it's a very interesting look for us to use in certain situations, like when we're facing pass heavy teams with poor interior OLs that Joseph and Canty will be able to keep him clean behind. Even then I'm not saying play Jacquain-Boley-Rivers as our base 4-3, but as an alternative to the big nickel? Could be interesting.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

We hardly use a MIKE bc of the scheme, they rather give up some in the run game and put a 3rd safety out there who can defend the deep middle in a Tampa 2 shell.

That doesn't mean we don't want to use a MIKE more, the staff just feels that we're incapable of doing so bc we lack talent there.

Trust me, they don't want to use big nickel as our base defense. They would prefer to use a regular base defense like everyone else, but they just don't have the LBs to do so.

Boley won't play MIKE in a 4-3. Chase will. Boley will call the plays in our nickel, and we'll probably use big nickel even more now than we did last year. But in our base 4-3, Boley will still be on the outside. He won't play the middle. I'll be shocked if he's our starting MIKE in our base 4-3.

And it still worked. The way the passing game is in the NFL now you don't need a traditional Mike and whether we didn't go that way because of talent or we chose to it doesn't matter. It actually fell into our lap and more and more teams will start to copy what we did as long as everyone is passing. We don't need a Mike. I was calling for Kuechly for over a year and a half now and I'd love to have him but it's we don't need a MLB.

[scottyboy]

OR

we could clone Chase and start 3 Chases. problem solved

but seriously, we have so much LB talent and diversity now, it's awesome. And none of these guys are douchers who're gonna complain for more time

[ifidel]

It's way too early to be debating about this. That being said, I'd like to keep Boley at Will (Or Sam as Perry would call it) in our 4-3. However, once it goes to Nic, Boley does play Mike. He is responsible for front calls and checks. Also remmeber that the reason we moved 'Trel back to the Slot Corner was cuz TT got hurt. The reason we won't bring back Grant is 'cause we can keep Trel at SS in the Nic and move TT over to the slot. If Prince is healthy, he can play that RCB, If not we got Molden for that. The 3 Safety package will totally disappear. We are deep everywhere, except the line. We need another 1shade Nose, in case Marvin doesn't work.

[Giantsfan1080]

Why do the Eagles have a hard on for Tannehill?

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Why do the Eagles have a hard on for Tannehill?

Cause Vick's 32 and breaks a lot while Tannehill has a lot of potential and would be a very good understudy to Vick. If Andy Reid has a longer leash than people suspect I wouldn't like that pick very much since I think Tannehill can become a top ten QB with a good coach, and Reid is a good QB's coach.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by ifidel

It's way too early to be debating about this. That being said, I'd like to keep Boley at Will (Or Sam as Perry would call it) in our 4-3. However, once it goes to Nic, Boley does play Mike. He is responsible for front calls and checks. Also remmeber that the reason we moved 'Trel back to the Slot Corner was cuz TT got hurt. The reason we won't bring back Grant is 'cause we can keep Trel at SS in the Nic and move TT over to the slot. If Prince is healthy, he can play that RCB, If not we got Molden for that. The 3 Safety package will totally disappear. We are deep everywhere, except the line. We need another 1shade Nose, in case Marvin doesn't work.

Canty is also coming off contract soon, and we need another gap shooter inside in case Austin doesn't pan out bc those are the only 2 guys currently on the roster that fits the profile.

I know he's not a pass rusher, but if Brockers falls, I'd be intrigued. Him and Joseph together could be a poor man's version of Adams/Siragusa.

[Giantsfan1080]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Cause Vick's 32 and breaks a lot while Tannehill has a lot of potential and would be a very good understudy to Vick. If Andy Reid has a longer leash than people suspect I wouldn't like that pick very much since I think Tannehill can become a top ten QB with a good coach, and Reid is a good QB's coach.

He's an excellent QB coach but it seems like that FO always tries to "outsmart" everyone. They are built to win now so if they want to trade up and a waste a 1st rounder on a QB then whatever.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Why do the Eagles have a hard on for Tannehill?

Good. Let them. I can't wait to slap Tannehill around. Trade the farm for him Philly.