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Old 08-10-2011, 07:49 PM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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I think now with the loss of Smith and Boss, we have to become a power running offense again.

Come out Iform and just pound the rock all game. Like we did in 07-08. Our WR core suddenly isn't nearly as hot as it was 4 hours ago.

We only have 1 legitimate threat that requires a double team. The rest are good guys, but nothing special. To free them up, we gotta pound the ball and hope play action will open up some passing lanes.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:49 PM    (permalink
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Smith was the only WR who fully understands the complicated offense we run, you should know that the best. Stop calling him average talent also because that's BS.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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Okay, thanks. Really hope that's the case. I have this nightmare scenario playing in my head right now where Asante Samuel picks off a pass when we look poised to finally win against the Eagles, and afterwards crediting Smith with giving him pointers on the Giants offense.

Damn, this is upsetting.
Now it doesn't work that way. The play book is 200 + pages, and out of that we install plays in the gameplan. From there, we put those plays into a call sheet which you see coaches have. We can also add specific plays for that specific team, so because Smith is not on the team he wouldn't know how those plays work.

All he knows are the WR rules. After that, he may notice a formation or two, but not the specifics.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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I think now with the loss of Smith and Boss, we have to become a power running offense again.

Come out Iform and just pound the rock all game. Like we did in 07-08. Our WR core suddenly isn't nearly as hot as it was 4 hours ago.

We only have 1 legitimate threat that requires a double team. The rest are good guys, but nothing special. To free them up, we gotta pound the ball and hope play action will open up some passing lanes.
We don't know that. Wait until after the season to make that statement. Let's see how this thing plays out. We don't know who will step up. Let's at least take a look and see before making statements like that. One of the WRs can step up and show explosiveness.

So Nicks take the top off the coverage. So now Manningham and the other guys have to take adv. Run the ball with draw, showing a passing formation. Move Beckum around, use our RBs, throw screens. SO many concepts we run. Again, I am not worried, until I see after the season what our deal was.
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Old 08-10-2011, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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We don't know that. Wait until after the season to make that statement. Let's see how this thing plays out. We don't know who will step up. Let's at least take a look and see before making statements like that. One of the WRs can step up and show explosiveness.

So Nicks take the top off the coverage. So now Manningham and the other guys have to take adv. Run the ball with draw, showing a passing formation. Move Beckum around, use our RBs, throw screens. SO many concepts we run. Again, I am not worried, until I see after the season what our deal was.
Yeah but do you trust Gilbride to make adjustments? Come on bro!

I know hindsight is 20/20, but now passing on Ingram for Prince looks like a bad call.

Don't get me wrong, I love Prince. But I also LOVE Ingram and think he's going to be a stud RB.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:01 PM    (permalink
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Yeah but do you trust Gilbride to make adjustments? Come on bro!

I know hindsight is 20/20, but now passing on Ingram for Prince looks like a bad call.

Don't get me wrong, I love Prince. But I also LOVE Ingram and think he's going to be a stud RB.
Of course! That's such fan nonsense. We hate Gilbride! He stinks! He never make adjustments! Please! The avg. fan wouldn't know an adjustment if it kicked him in the nuts.

Gilbride is not a bad OC and Coughlin is an offensive HC. So I trust both to make the necessary moves to get this offense to where it is used to being.

Well you know how I feel about defensive first rounders. Eventually we need them to step up! ALL OF THEM!
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:17 PM    (permalink
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good thing I've been hyping Jernigan for a little while now
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:20 PM    (permalink
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good thing I've been hyping Jernigan for a little while now
Let's see what he has to offer. Darius R. has been doing very well in camp. Hixon is solid, and we can see how the other guys do too.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:29 PM    (permalink
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We weren't going to pay that much for a guy whose knee was diagnosed as far off still. It doesn't matter who it is. Plus you never know how things play out..

we were not going to pay Nicks, Mario AND Smith big time contracts. We do know Nicks will get it barring serious injury. Mario had a breakout season and showed up as a homerun threat. It was too bad Smith got hurt, because he could have been it interesting with a big time contract. So you never know how things play out in life.

I think now Mario and Nicks get their contracts. Smith is a great WR, but he is not a homerun threat. I respect what Smith did, but I'd rather this happen then not pay the guy if he produced. I don't fault Reese for paying a guy with a messed up knee. It's a business decision based on logic, which Reese is showing us..

Not over paying for avg talent AND hurt talent. It doesn't matter who you are. He stared down Strahan AND now Osi. Reese is a good GM, so let's see how this plays out.
...it was a one year deal. We weren't talking about talking about a long term deal. This deal doesn't effect what Nicks or Manningham were going to get in the future.

If he came back this season and did well that benefited us. After that, maybe we don't give him a huge deal and let him go. But for a one year, 4 million dollar deal with 2 mil guaranteed you HAVE to sign arguably the most important player on your offense (not named Manning).
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:41 PM    (permalink
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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...it was a one year deal. We weren't talking about talking about a long term deal. This deal doesn't effect what Nicks or Manningham were going to get in the future.

If he came back this season and did well that benefited us. After that, maybe we don't give him a huge deal and let him go. But for a one year, 4 million dollar deal with 2 mil guaranteed you HAVE to sign arguably the most important player on your offense (not named Manning).
I am talking to a friend on BBI who is a doctor. So one thing we don't know is how our doctors thought of Smith's injury vs the Eagles. We have the information and we have Smith's surgical records. I am not sure the Eagles can get their information from us. Plus Warren, our doctor, is an older doctor with much more experience. Our guys got to see inside Smith's knee so it gives us the edge in terms of what we saw.

It must have scared off our guys. They must have ran their own tests, and think he can come back earlier. I think it's a business decision based on medical facts, which we as fans, aren't privy to.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:07 PM    (permalink
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Well we didn't even try to match the offer so yeah they didn't really want him back at all.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:09 PM    (permalink
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Well we didn't even try to match the offer so yeah they didn't really want him back at all.
Well that alone should tell us all we need to know about his knee. It's not like we didn't match a healthy Steve Smith at 100%.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:13 PM    (permalink
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Well that alone should tell us all we need to know about his knee. It's not like we didn't match a healthy Steve Smith at 100%.
I guess we won't know how healthy he really is until he's on the field. Time will tell whether this was a colossal mistake or Reese knew he'd get a huge backlash but stood by his principles because he knew he was right. I really want Cotchery now but my boy Barden needs to get the tampon out and get on the field.
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Old 08-10-2011, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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I guess we won't know how healthy he really is until he's on the field. Time will tell whether this was a colossal mistake or Reese knew he'd get a huge backlash but stood by his principles because he knew he was right. I really want Cotchery now but my boy Barden needs to get the tampon out and get on the field.
We don't need to sign another WR who has limited time to get a complicated system. We have our guys, now we need one of them to step up.

I think reese stuck to his guns, while the Eagles took a gamble. If it fails, they don't lose a lot because it's a 1 year deal. However, we showed that we aren't going to over pay for medium talent AND we aren't going to sign damaged goods.
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:35 PM    (permalink
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STEVE SMITH IS NOT A MEDIUM/AVERAGE TALENT!!!!!!!! STOP ******* SAYING THAT!!!

that is all
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Old 08-10-2011, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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First off, I was legitimately pissed off at the giants right when i got schefter's tweet. But after awhile, I realized what had happened to Osi after a serious knee injury. We have youth, although we know steve smith as a great player and giant, if he's not going to recover we shouldn't resign him.

He chose the eagles probably for the money/chance to win, but also because the giants disrespected him and were unloyal. It's a business, and for fans it seems really cutthroat, but the players we are letting go (Boss, Smith, Cofield) have all had injuries and their play will be affected.

Boss takes hits left and right, has had problems with concussions, and although he has great height, everything else is just alittle above average.

Smith had a major knee injury (didnt he also have a bad shoulder injury too where he couldnt lift his arm?), and we know that this can ruin careers.

Cofield had knee surgeries, and he is average. His production had alot to do with the ends we have.

For a time there it looked like Bradshaw would be added to this list, he's had foot and ankle injuries like crazy, but losing him would be soo much worse. We win with a good running game, the nfl has changed but slowing the game down and controlling the clock is more important imo.

Im upset, but at the same time Im hopeful that we can change our offense to be more on Eli and less on the receivers. These complicated routes can work, but having a timing route or just a shot downfield is simple stuff also can work. The chargers offense didnt lose much when their receivers went down bc it was much more simplistic, more on the reads of the QB. Gilbride needs to trust Eli and be more aware of what we have at WR.

As for Randy Moss, I'm down for that. Eli is a very accurate deep ball QB, Moss will open up the intermediate area where nicks is absolute money.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:01 PM    (permalink
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I'm still not clear on the dispute between Cotchery and the Jets, but if he is healthy, the Giants should grab him. Class act and really gave everything when he was on and off the field.

Where is this Moss to the Giants sentiment coming from? I rarely completely rule something out, but knowing the Giants and the fact that he is retired, I can't think of anything less likely.

BBD, you're gearing yourself up for a letdown.
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:41 AM    (permalink
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I WANT RANDY MOSS DAMMIT!

I'm not even joking anymore. Get Moss.
Yeah, I kinda expect one Barden or Cruz to break out this year, but I'm finally with you on this.

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I have to admit, it's interesting see giants fans implode on various MB. But we are not going to overpay for avg talent, or hurt talent. Manningham and Nicks are going to get their contracts. So we are not going to blow our wad on a guy with 1 good season and a very serious injury. Emotions aside, it's a sound business decision. I like Smith, but I don't want us to give him a big deal with a knee like that. However, I didn't think the Eagles would step in. It's a risk on their part, but then again it's a one year deal.

Now we have to see if someone else can step up.
1 year is not blowing our wad and when healthy Smith is a lot better than Mario Manningham so if Smith could prove he was recovered this year I'd have much rather signed him and Nicks and then moved Super Mario. I'm all for not signing an injured guy to a long term deal, but a freaking one year "prove yourself" deal? For a guy who's been such a great giant? Are ******* kidding me?
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:20 AM    (permalink
Rosebud
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Well at least our OL seems to be coming together well so if we really do become more of a running team again we should be able to control games like that. Plus I'm expecting Nicks to put up ridiculous numbers this year and Manningham to poorly run the wrong route less often. If one of our young WRs steps up our passing game should be good enough with Eli at the helm to compliment a strong running game and defense.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:44 AM    (permalink
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So I figured I would wake up and feel much better about this and I was overreacting and stuff but nope I'm still shocked and upset.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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Would we be as annoyed if he went to the Raiders? Probably not.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:56 AM    (permalink
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Relax, guys. Steve Smith was a valuable option for Eli, but he doesn't represent the upside of say, Hakeem Nicks. After submitting to microfracture surgery, his value as a player dramatically decreased. The Giants Front Office is one of the best in the business and they are not going to foolishly throw money at a guy who could very well be done completely as an NFL player. The Eagles just threw away the money it required to sign him to a 1-year deal.

As long as Eli has Nicks and Manningham everything will be fine with the passing game. Maybe Victor Cruz even has a breakout year? Nicks will put up 1200+ yards and 10+ TDs, and Eli will easily throw for over 4000 yards this year. Book it.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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Would we be as annoyed if he went to the Raiders? Probably not.
I'd still be very annoyed but no of course I wouldn't be as upset. When one of your favorite players goes to a hated rival because your GM lowballed him it's a problem though.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:11 AM    (permalink
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I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I'm going to miss Steve Smith and all he does for the offense, but there is certainly no guarantee he was going to that this year. I trust Reese. I don't think we lowballed him given the situation. There wasn't a ton of teams after his services. I'm just more upset he signed with the Eagles. Not because I think he is going to tear us up but I just can't see him wearing that ugly jersey.
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