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Old 08-11-2011, 08:28 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Jughead10 View Post
I'm going to take a wait and see approach. I'm going to miss Steve Smith and all he does for the offense, but there is certainly no guarantee he was going to that this year. I trust Reese. I don't think we lowballed him given the situation. There wasn't a ton of teams after his services. I'm just more upset he signed with the Eagles. Not because I think he is going to tear us up but I just can't see him wearing that ugly jersey.
It's going to be weird as anything to see him in that jersey this year. Like the bizarro world Steve Smith.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:31 AM    (permalink
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I wish I had a better grasp on our cap situation for this year. As well as how much dead money we are carrying that will be off the books next year. Hopefully we have some more room to do somethings next year offseason if good players are available.

But right now we do need to trust our recent drafts. Some of those mid round guys this year but mostly last 2 years need to step up.

Speaking of, I saw this a few days ago and haven't seen anything since. Apparently Tyler Sash has really been impressing and was working with the first team a bunch the other day.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:33 AM    (permalink
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According to medical reports, the *earliest* he will be able to contribute to *anyone* this year is Week 10.

And that's probably an optimistic assessment, also. So the Eagles are paying a guy a couple of million dollars to basically sit on their bench for more than 60% of the season. Doesn't sound like a smart move to me at all.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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According to medical reports, the *earliest* he will be able to contribute to *anyone* this year is Week 10.

And that's probably an optimistic assessment, also. So the Eagles are paying a guy a couple of million dollars to basically sit on their bench for more than 60% of the season. Doesn't sound like a smart move to me at all.
Apparently the Eagles doctors think earlier, week 4 or 5ish. Who knows. I'll believe anything when I see it. The Eagles are optimistic, which seems to be there outlook on their entire offseason.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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Apparently the Eagles doctors think earlier, week 4 or 5ish. Who knows. I'll believe anything when I see it. The Eagles are optimistic, which seems to be there outlook on their entire offseason.
The thing with Microfracture surgery is that it is by far the worst surgery that can happen to an NFL player in terms of recovery time.

Most players don't come back and play until more than a year after having the surgery, and less than 50% ever play at a high level ever again after having it.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:45 AM    (permalink
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I wish I had a better grasp on our cap situation for this year. As well as how much dead money we are carrying that will be off the books next year. Hopefully we have some more room to do somethings next year offseason if good players are available.

But right now we do need to trust our recent drafts. Some of those mid round guys this year but mostly last 2 years need to step up.

Speaking of, I saw this a few days ago and haven't seen anything since. Apparently Tyler Sash has really been impressing and was working with the first team a bunch the other day.
Reese and Abrams really bungled the cap situation.
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Old 08-11-2011, 08:58 AM    (permalink
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The thing with Microfracture surgery is that it is by far the worst surgery that can happen to an NFL player in terms of recovery time.

Most players don't come back and play until more than a year after having the surgery, and less than 50% ever play at a high level ever again after having it.
This is true. Kenny Phillips ended his 2009 season I believe in week 3. He missed all of the 2009 season with that injury and wasn't the same last year. We had to use him differently to protect his knee. Reports are he is just now getting back to to 100%. Nearly two years later.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:10 AM    (permalink
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Yeah, I kinda expect one Barden or Cruz to break out this year, but I'm finally with you on this.



1 year is not blowing our wad and when healthy Smith is a lot better than Mario Manningham so if Smith could prove he was recovered this year I'd have much rather signed him and Nicks and then moved Super Mario. I'm all for not signing an injured guy to a long term deal, but a freaking one year "prove yourself" deal? For a guy who's been such a great giant? Are ******* kidding me?
Manningham is just scratching his talent. It took a while for him get used his system. He had a sick and is a lot more explosive then Smith. Not to mention SMITH IS HURT!! This is not a healthy Steve Smith. How did KP play after his surgery? He still hasn't recovered, and now why in the world would be pay 4 million dollars for a 1 year deal, when we could use that money somewhere else. Plus we are around 3.5 million under the cap, so 4 million would have been tight.

Our doctors think otherwise and they did the surgery on Smith. The Eagles took a risk and we will see if it pans out. It a business decision based on money and medical history. Reese made a good decision based on the information he got.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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The thing with Microfracture surgery is that it is by far the worst surgery that can happen to an NFL player in terms of recovery time.

Most players don't come back and play until more than a year after having the surgery, and less than 50% ever play at a high level ever again after having it.
Kenny p had it for his degenerative knee, and he still is recovering. Now based on beat writers he looks to be back. But it takes a while to heal, so we went based on our doctors advice. From there Reese made a business decision.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:23 AM    (permalink
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Manningham is just scratching his talent. It took a while for him get used his system. He had a sick and is a lot more explosive then Smith. Not to mention SMITH IS HURT!! This is not a healthy Steve Smith. How did KP play after his surgery? He still hasn't recovered, and now why in the world would be pay 4 million dollars for a 1 year deal, when we could use that money somewhere else. Plus we are around 3.5 million under the cap, so 4 million would have been tight.

Our doctors think otherwise and they did the surgery on Smith. The Eagles took a risk and we will see if it pans out. It a business decision based on money and medical history. Reese made a good decision based on the information he got.
He's so dumb I'm not sure we get much more than that. He still isn't used to the system. He basically only runs two routes. And his hands aren't the best.

I'm not terribly furious about Smith leaving, but I would put my money on Smith coming back 100% in 2012 before I put money on Mario ever developing a brain.

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Old 08-11-2011, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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He's so dumb I'm not sure we get much more than that. He still isn't used to the system. He basically only runs two routes. And his hands aren't the best.
That is the dumbest reason I think I heard. You are better than that. You sound like a defeated person who is angry that smith left. Granted we have a lot of emotional fans but like I said he is just scratching his talent. Anyone can see that he is an explosive player. And what do you think D Jac runs? Manningham is in a system where we run option and choice routes. Like it or not, he may be dumb, but he is adjusting more and more into the system and did a sick job.

He has good hands, but over thinking everything due to scheme.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:34 AM    (permalink
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That is the dumbest reason I think I heard. You are better than that. You sound like a defeated person who is angry that smith left. Granted we have a lot of emotional fans but like I said he is just scratching his talent. Anyone can see that he is an explosive player. And what do you think D Jac runs? Manningham is in a system where we run option and choice routes. Like it or not, he may be dumb, but he is adjusting more and more into the system and did a sick job.

He has good hands, but over thinking everything due to scheme.
Jackson only runs one route as well. I get that. But he does it better than anyone in the league, I don't know how, but he does. It defies all logic. Mario isn't at that level. What else is dumb? He runs screens and go routes. That's about it. His hands are average. Having him on the field more often isn't something I'm exactly thrilled about. Mario is a great 3rd WR if you have someone else (like Smith) who can do everything else.
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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I don't see any problem returning to a smash mouth football team with an above average defens with Eli making the big play when needed. We did get a little to pass happy at times so maybe this will help out in that respect.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:08 AM    (permalink
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Jackson only runs one route as well. I get that. But he does it better than anyone in the league, I don't know how, but he does. It defies all logic. Mario isn't at that level. What else is dumb? He runs screens and go routes. That's about it. His hands are average. Having him on the field more often isn't something I'm exactly thrilled about. Mario is a great 3rd WR if you have someone else (like Smith) who can do everything else.
Yeah he does, and in a much more QB friendly system than our system. That's the whole adjustment part of Mario in our system. It's not as simple for Mario and run straight as fast as you can. He has to make all these reads, and that effects other areas like catching the ball. You tend to over think everything, Now he is showing signs of getting used to this system.

Here is the thing though Mario isn't a 3rd WR. He is our Z.. Smith is our 3rd down Y WR. Great 3rd down talent, but no where near as explosive as Manningham. Basically Mario has a higher potential ceiling than Smith.

And no sense in comparing both guys because one seriously messed up his knee, while the other stayed healthy. Basically it was bad luck for Smith in getting hurt in his FA year. It made our business decision that much easier.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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Yeah he does, and in a much more QB friendly system than our system. That's the whole adjustment part of Mario in our system. It's not as simple for Mario and run straight as fast as you can. He has to make all these reads, and that effects other areas like catching the ball. You tend to over think everything, Now he is showing signs of getting used to this system.

Here is the thing though Mario isn't a 3rd WR. He is our Z.. Smith is our 3rd down Y WR. Great 3rd down talent, but no where near as explosive as Manningham. Basically Mario has a higher potential ceiling than Smith.

And no sense in comparing both guys because one seriously messed up his knee, while the other stayed healthy. Basically it was bad luck for Smith in getting hurt in his FA year. It made our business decision that much easier.
I haven't seen these signs.

Disagree about Smith. Smith could play all the WR positions. Yes, Mario isn't a slot guy but he was our 3rd WR because you could move Smith to any position when we had three on the field. Mario does have a higher potential but I don't think he ever reaches it. Potential is a dangerous thing if you are constantly counting on it.

I'm also not comparing them. I'm just not content with relying on Mario.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I haven't seen these signs.

Disagree about Smith. Smith could play all the WR positions. Yes, Mario isn't a slot guy but he was our 3rd WR because you could move Smith to any position when we had three on the field. Mario does have a higher potential but I don't think he ever reaches it. Potential is a dangerous thing if you are constantly counting on it.

I'm also not comparing them. I'm just not content with relying on Mario.
Did you not see him become a HR threat last year? Perhaps if you lived closer, we could hang out, BBQ, have some beers and watch the game together. Then I can do what I do when I used to coach. Go over the recorded game and go play by play.

I am confident we can show how explosive of a WR Mario is becoming. I think mario is getting better and better, and he will continue to do good things for us.

All of our WRs can be moved around depending on various personnel packages. Fans think ranking WRs is a linear thing, but what they fail to realize is that teams have a lot of personnel packages. Therefore your X Z and Y changes for all of them if you have the guys.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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Did you not see him become a HR threat last year? Perhaps if you lived closer, we could hang out, BBQ, have some beers and watch the game together. Then I can do what I do when I used to coach. Go over the recorded game and go play by play.

I am confident we can show how explosive of a WR Mario is becoming. I think mario is getting better and better, and he will continue to do good things for us.

All of our WRs can be moved around depending on various personnel packages. Fans think ranking WRs is a linear thing, but what they fail to realize is that teams have a lot of personnel packages. Therefore your X Z and Y changes for all of them if you have the guys.
I get all of that. And Mario was a HR threat, but that is all he was. He brings nothing else to the table. He is by no means a complete WR and I don't think he ever will be. I also get how the X, Y, and Z change all the time if you have the guys. I just haven't seen Mario be that guy who can do that. Smith certainly was. Mario is still very limited and it is all because of what is going on (or what isn't going on) between his ear.

We need him to step up and do other things. Or have someone else step up and do the inside work to open up Manningham for the HR threat. Because that is all he can deliver. He's really good at running in a straight line and catching a ball.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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I think Hixon can step in and do a fine job moving the chains like Smith. It would be nice if Thomas finger heals quickly so we can see if he's turned the corner as well.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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I get all of that. And Mario was a HR threat, but that is all he was. He brings nothing else to the table. He is by no means a complete WR and I don't think he ever will be. I also get how the X, Y, and Z change all the time if you have the guys. I just haven't seen Mario be that guy who can do that. Smith certainly was. Mario is still very limited and it is all because of what is going on (or what isn't going on) between his ear.

We need him to step up and do other things. Or have someone else step up and do the inside work to open up Manningham for the HR threat. Because that is all he can deliver. He's really good at running in a straight line and catching a ball.
Nothing else to the table? He scores instantly, that alone is a great thing. He is our go to guy for screens, and I expect we will see a lot more of that using Mario and perhaps Hixon and JJ.

We will see added plays and adjustments now that Boss and Smith are gone. Just like I said here and on BBI, let's see how this season plays out before people starting over reacting. Not you specifically, but giants fans collectively.

Mario is running his routes based on adjustments. If that's a go route then so be it. He is our instant hr threat which teams have to watch out for. That alone is worth the price of admission if he can rattle off a 40 plus yard TD. I think we are just scratching the surface on his talent, and now we will get a chance to see his skills, barring injury of course.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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Nothing else to the table? He scores instantly, that alone is a great thing. He is our go to guy for screens, and I expect we will see a lot more of that using Mario and perhaps Hixon and JJ.

We will see added plays and adjustments now that Boss and Smith are gone. Just like I said here and on BBI, let's see how this season plays out before people starting over reacting. Not you specifically, but giants fans collectively.

Mario is running his routes based on adjustments. If that's a go route then so be it. He is our instant hr threat which teams have to watch out for. That alone is worth the price of admission if he can rattle off a 40 plus yard TD. I think we are just scratching the surface on his talent, and now we will get a chance to see his skills, barring injury of course.
I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. The long TDs are obviously great. But how many time INTs or incompletions were there because Mario didn't run the right route or dropped a ball other than a screen. We need a chain mover. Hopefully Hixon can be that guy and be healthy.

We could be just scratching the surface of his talent, but again, if we count on that happening we are setting ourselves to be burned hard.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:16 AM    (permalink
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I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one. The long TDs are obviously great. But how many time INTs or incompletions were there because Mario didn't run the right route or dropped a ball other than a screen. We need a chain mover. Hopefully Hixon can be that guy and be healthy.

We could be just scratching the surface of his talent, but again, if we count on that happening we are setting ourselves to be burned hard.
That's cool. I like you, you're a good member on here and provide good conversation.

Not sure, could be little or a lot. But same goes for other WRs. We had this with Shockey, Toomer, and Plax too. Sadly, it's expected with all WRs in this system. I bet it happened with Smith too, but less obvious.

Hixon, JJ, Darius R and Cruz are all fighting for that spot so can they provide production while being versatile.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:18 AM    (permalink
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I don't think it ever really happened with Smith. He was so reliable. Eli knew where he was supposed to be and going to be and he was there to catch the ball.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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I really hope Barden gets off the bike already. It's certainly his moment to shine if he can grab it.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I don't think it ever really happened with Smith. He was so reliable. Eli knew where he was supposed to be and going to be and he was there to catch the ball.
I would be it happened but because we don't have access to the coaches film, so we can't see how many times. But its part of the game, I wouldn't doubt it happened more times than fans think.
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Old 08-11-2011, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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Jernigan is going to wear #12 now.
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