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Old 08-13-2011, 10:20 AM    (permalink
bigbluedefense
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Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG View Post
How are you feeling now? Calmed down a bit? : P
I'm still upset, and honestly that won't ever go away. To me it's inexcusable to allow Smith to walk to the Eagles.

But as far as this year is concerned, we'll be ok. We basically were gonna play most of the year without him anyway, and we finally will get to see one of those "potential" guys who've been rotting on the bench either step up or wash out.

We won't be as potent on offense, but hopefully that will force us to commit to the run more than we have the past 2 years. We rebuilt the oline, so I expect our run game to improve as a result.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:21 AM    (permalink
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Someone posted this on BBI

Anyone find this shady?

Quote:
Ben Dogra in bed with Eagles ? ....
Manny in CA : 8/12/2011 11:57 pm
Five out of the six "names" that the Eagles signed are his gys -

Jason Babin - Rosenhaus

Nnamdi Asomugha - Dogra

Steve Smith - Dogra

DR Cromartie - Dogra

Ronnie Brown - Dogra

Cullen Jenkins - Dogra
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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Wanted to get Giants fans thoughts here, but if Steve Smith is healthy, do you think that he can stretch the field enough in the Eagles offfense to the point where it will be effective enough to win? If so, it might not make financial sense for the Birds to resign Jackson at the money he's probably goint to want and will get in FA. Plus, a lot of Bird fans seem to think that Maclin is going to be the better receiver anyways.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Steve Smith is not really a deep threat. He works his best in the slot and the short intermediate areas. He will not be able to replace Desean for you.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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Wanted to get Giants fans thoughts here, but if Steve Smith is healthy, do you think that he can stretch the field enough in the Eagles offfense to the point where it will be effective enough to win? If so, it might not make financial sense for the Birds to resign Jackson at the money he's probably goint to want and will get in FA. Plus, a lot of Bird fans seem to think that Maclin is going to be the better receiver anyways.
No, he isn't a vertical threat. He basically finds holes in the coverage and can attack a defense that way. He is not the guy you use to take the top of the coverage if you have other guys.

That's assuming Maclin's illness isn't very serious.
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Old 08-13-2011, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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The Unsung Hero In The Nnamdi Asomugha Acquisition: Ben Dogra

http://philly.sbnation.com/2011/8/2/...tion-ben-dogra
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:38 PM    (permalink
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So what will you guys be focusing on tonight? I don't pay attention to the overall performance of the games, or some of the individual performances, but do think there are some positions you can try and look at an evaluate.

I think the biggest guys to watch will be any of the WR's not named Manningham and Nicks. Should be a great battle for the slot spot with several guys capable of winning it.

OL/DL should be interesting too. Beatty had the LT position spot locked down in training camp but basically lost it for terrible play in pre-season. But he's bulked up and supposedly been pretty good in training camp. Plus it'll be good to get a look at Petrus again.

Defensively, I really want to see Linval and Marvin Austin.
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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the lineman I will be watching are Baas and Joseph. I also want to see how Da'rell Scott and Andre Brown look out there.
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Old 08-13-2011, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Forenci View Post
So what will you guys be focusing on tonight? I don't pay attention to the overall performance of the games, or some of the individual performances, but do think there are some positions you can try and look at an evaluate.

I think the biggest guys to watch will be any of the WR's not named Manningham and Nicks. Should be a great battle for the slot spot with several guys capable of winning it.

OL/DL should be interesting too. Beatty had the LT position spot locked down in training camp but basically lost it for terrible play in pre-season. But he's bulked up and supposedly been pretty good in training camp. Plus it'll be good to get a look at Petrus again.

Defensively, I really want to see Linval and Marvin Austin.
All of our rookies(drafted and undrafted). Mainly Austin, JJ, Herzy, Hynoski, Sash, Linval, Cruz and Sintim
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Old 08-13-2011, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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offense!!!!!

Personnel packages! I want to see who is playing X Z and Y.
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Old 08-14-2011, 08:50 AM    (permalink
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So what'd you guys think? I didn't get to see the last quarter (DVR'd it, going to watch it later) but overall I liked a lot of what I saw.

Beatty seemed to hold his own and do so impressively. I still think his run blocking is only average, but honestly I think we can get away with it as we have several maulers on the line to handle that, and his main goal is to keep Eli standing up.

Favorite part of last night was JPP by far. He's really hard not to like as a player. They mentioned it on the broadcast but he is fun to watch because he has a non-stop motor when he plays. I'm not even necessarily talking about the sacks either, as he was going up against Gross early and often and was getting pressure. I'm excited to see what he can do this year.

Honestly, I thought all the WR's looked good for the most part. Hixon is probably the front runner to take the slot position. He looked really good last night I thought. Nicks is what he is: a beast. I loved when Carolina tried to use press coverage on him and he just shrugged the DB off like he was nothing. He's so damn strong. I liked what Devin Thomas showed too. I was really big on him coming out of college, so I'm hoping he can step up, in addition to his special teams play.

As for the other guys, I'm just not sure they got enough snaps to be noticed as much. Victor Cruz made a great play on special teams which probably doesn't hurt his chances for being on the roster. I'm kind of wondering who will be the odd man out this year.

Secondary looks good. Carolina broke off a couple runs but I feel like we kept them contained for the most part. I didn't get as good a look as I wanted at some of the LBers and DT's. Hoping you guys can enlighten me more in that regard, haha.
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Old 08-14-2011, 11:39 AM    (permalink
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I have to go back and watch again but some quick hits:

-JPP is a beast. I can't wait to see what this guy does this year. I almost want him to start over Osi. If he plays like that all season, hell, he probably should. Of course he won't, but still, you can't help but get excited about him. He's going to be a monster.

-Joseph looked beastly too. He's an upgrade over Coffield. He's the NT we've been looking for.

-Kiwi looked a little lost in coverage and he didn't beat his man on the blitz as much as I'd like. He needs more practice. But so far the early results from that aren't looking too hot.

-Austin had his ups and downs. He'll be a good player. I liked his motor.

-Brewer is a monster of a man but really needs work. Project, but he could pan out to be a good project in our farm system.

-Piss poor tackling. I'll cough it up to PS, but I want to see that cleaned up.

-Special teams is horrible. That's a concern. No one stays in their lanes.

-Didn't like the coverage schemes. But it's PS, so I don't expect us to run those soft zones in the regular season.

-Ross looked bad. Sash had his ups and downs.

-LB could be a problem again. Issues like that don't fix themselves. We need a linebacker.

-Jacobs looks good. Our RB stable looks good. Oline needs more time to gel.

-WR core looks average. Nicks is a beast, Mario is inconsistent, nobody emerged as a solid 3 yet. I know Hixon had a good game, but he did it vs off coverage. Every time he was pressed, he couldn't separate. That's always been his problem and that won't change.

-Eli wasn't particularly accurate.

I need to watch the game a couple of times to get a real good gauge of it but so far that's my initial thoughts.
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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How Personnel Packages work. PP from PS game 1 NYG/PAN


Here are some personnel packages we used last night.. We saw a mix of skill players getting moved around playing the X, Z, Y positions. As you can see this analysis gives us good insight as to what the coaches are thinking when they move players around within the personnel groupings of this offensive system.

When the avg fan thinks of WRs, and the "lineup" they think it's a linear type function. For example:

# 1 - Nicks
# 2 - Manningham
# 3 - Hixon, Darius R., Cruz, Devin T

And let's say Hixon wins the # 3 spot. Fans tend to think this is it. Always when we go 3 wide it's going to be this specific line up everytime.

However, in any offense from HS or D3 to NFL, you have a bunch of personnel groupings used within an offensive system, which gets installed each week.

So the above grouping can be designated:

"REGULAR"

So when we call a play, and say REGULAR, I PRO Slot left.

That means we are using REGULAR personnel group. We could use another one where things are moved around. For example,

"SPEED"

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
Y - Manningham

So now the "slot" is Manningham. During the course of the game people are getting moved around. I have seen Plax in the slot, Toomer in the slot, and so on.








Here are a bunch..

1st Team:

Formation: Weak I Left

2 WR ; 1 FB ; 1 RB ; 1 TE

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y - Ballard

# 2 Back - Bear P
# 3 Back - Bradshaw


Formation: Ace - Double Tight

2 WR ; 1 RB ; 2 TE ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y1 - BP
Y2 - Ballard


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
F/H ( Inside WR Position) - Manningham
Y - Bear P


Formation: I Pro Left

2 WR ; 1 TE; 1 RB ; 1 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Manningham
Y - Bear P.

Formation: Shotgun - Splitback Slot Left

3 WR ; 2 RB ; 0 TE ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
Y - Manningham

# 2 - Ware
# 3 - Bradshaw

Formation: I Pro Right Wing Right

1 WR ; 2 TE ; 1 FB ; 1 RB

X - Nicks
Y1 - Ballard
Y2 - # 48

# 2 - Bear P
# 3 - Bradshaw


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Nicks
Z - Hixon
F/H - Manningham
Y - Bear P



2nd UNIT



Formation: Strong I Left

2 WR ; 1 TE ; 1 FB ; 1 RB

X - Hixon
Z - Cruz
Y - Bear P

# 2 - # 41
# 3 - ??


Formation: Ace - Slot Left Strong Right

3 WR ; 1 Rb ; 1 TE ; 0 FB

X - Hixon
Z - Darius R.
F/H - Cruz
Y - Bear P


Formation: Shotgun Left - Trips Right

4 WR ; 0 TE ; 1 RB ; 0 FB

X - Hixon
Z - Darius R
F/H - Cruz
Y - Bear P


Formation: Weak I Left

2 WR ; 1 FB ; 1 RB ; 1 TE

X - Darius
Z - Hixon
Y - Bear P

# 2 Back - # 41
# 3 Back - ??

Darius starts out as X however this play has TE motion making the TE go from the left to the right the formation. This causes Darius to be Z and Hixon to be X, which would make sense because when Plax went down Hixon was the backup X. As you can see, he played X a lot this game.



Formation: Ace - Double Tight

2 WR ; 1 RB ; 2 TE ; 0 FB

X - Devin Thomas
Z - Cruz
Y1 - ?
Y2 - # 46
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Old 08-14-2011, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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Preseason game 1: Giants-Panthers Formation Guide

Here are the formations used tonight. The coverage was so ****** tonight. Camera man focusing on the ball, player's asses or faces, while the play is being ran. So you missed what formations were called on a bunch.

Anyways, I counted 64 total plays. I tried to write before the ball was snapped so some might be off. I recorded the game, but don't feel like watching that **** over again unless I think of something.

Summary:

We basically lived in the "I Formation" family of formations. We saw a lot of Y Trips and regular Trips. We stuck with our Ace - Double slot too. When we wanted to go 3 WR, we went with Quads Right.

Hope this helps in comparing this to other games.

1. Strong I Right
2. Weak I Left
3. Strong I Right
4 Weak I Left
5 Ace - Double Tight
6 Shotgun - Y Trips Right
7 Bad Camera Angle so I missed it
8 I Pro Left
9 Split Back Slot Left
10 I Pro Right Wing Right
11 Double Slot ???
12 Y Trips Right
13 ????
14 I Pro Right
15 Shotgun - Y Trips Right
16 I Pro Left, motion TE ---& gt; I Pro Right
17 I Pro Left
18 Shotgun - Quads Right (TE Right, Slot Left)
19 2nd UNIT I Pro Left Wing Left
20 Weak I Right
21 Single Back (Ace) - Strong Right, Slot Left
22 Shotgun Left - Y Trips Right
23 Strong I Right
24 I Pro Right
25 I Pro Right
26 Shotgun - Quads Right
27 Shotgun - Quads Right
28 Shotgun - Y Trips Left
29 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
30 Shotgun Left - Quads Right

HALFTIME


31 I Pro Right
32 Weak I Left
33 Weak I Left, Motion FB Left ----& gt; Strong I Left
34 Strong I Right, Motion FB Left -----& gt; Weak I Right
35 Shotgun - Trips Right Empty
36 Play in Action - Victor Cruz Highlight
37 Shotgun - Double Slot
38 Shotgun - Bunch Right
39 Ace - Double Tight
40 I Pro Left
41 I Pro Left
42 I Pro Right
43 Shotgun left - Double Slot
44 Ace - Double Tight
45 I Pro Right
46 Bad Angle
47 Shotgun Right - Double Slot
48 Missed the play. I was posting.. Inc. pass though
49 I Pro right
50 Shotgun Left - Trips Left
51 Perriloux comes in: Strong I Left
52 Strong I Left
53 Strong I Left
54 Shotgun Left - Trips Right
55 Weak I Right
56 Weak I Right
57 Shotgun Right - Trips Left
58 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
59 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
60 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
61 Shotgun Left - Double Slot
62 Shotgun Right - Y Trips Left
63 Shotgun Left - Quads Right
64 Shotgun Left - Trips Right
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:44 PM    (permalink
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Whenever Boss/Shocking/NYG posts like that...it makes my fandom feel so inadequate. damn.

also, there's this, courtsey of BBI:

APTCan TOM CANAVAN
Osi Umenyiora tells AP that he will practice with the Giants on Monday and that he will play under his old contract.

****. yes
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
Whenever Boss/Shocking/NYG posts like that...it makes my fandom feel so inadequate. damn.

also, there's this, courtsey of BBI:

APTCan TOM CANAVAN
Osi Umenyiora tells AP that he will practice with the Giants on Monday and that he will play under his old contract.

****. yes


Just some of my stuff I did for the game. Also, I been seeing some stuff about the slot WR. So I wanted to address that via usage of personnel packages in football


As for the Osi thing, this sums it up the best!

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Old 08-14-2011, 05:56 PM    (permalink
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haha i love that picture.

and I think it was the JPP factor. With JPP looking super last night, Osi knows he's just losing leverage and fast. But you know what? Just get him on the field. Him, Kiwi, Tuck and JPP? yea, 4 aces coming at you. 3rd and longs are going to be a LOT of fun to watch
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:12 PM    (permalink
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-Eli wasn't particularly accurate.
That one throw to Nicks was right on the money and would have been a huge gain if the CB didn't interfere. No PI called. Refs were in preseason mode too.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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haha i love that picture.

and I think it was the JPP factor. With JPP looking super last night, Osi knows he's just losing leverage and fast. But you know what? Just get him on the field. Him, Kiwi, Tuck and JPP? yea, 4 aces coming at you. 3rd and longs are going to be a LOT of fun to watch
Hahaha me too! I see it posted on BBI at times, so I thought I'd post it. It's a great picture. Makes me laugh all the time.

Perhaps JPP playing well caused him to want to play.

Maybe lack of options now since his knee is fine so he can't have surgery.

It just seems a little too quiet too soon after all the drama. Hence, I am very skeptical and my friend articulates my reaction perfectly! Haha
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:26 PM    (permalink
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Whether you call it slot or Y, there isn't much of a difference in more basic formations, I'm not in love with Manningham playing that position. Maybe I've just been spoiled with Smith's route running but Mario rounds off his routes way too much. It allowed a CB to make a play on the ball in the first quarter. Smith shakes that CB.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Whether you call it slot or Y, there is much of a difference in more basic formations, I'm not in love with Manningham playing that position. Maybe I've just been spoiled with Smith's route running but Mario rounds off his routes way too much. It allowed a CB to make a play on the ball in the first quarter. Smith shakes that CB.
Slot can be Y if there is no TE.. TE is normally Y.

If there is a TE then it could labeled F or H, hence F/H. Depends on the system you are in.

Not to pick on you, you know I think you are a good poster, but that's always an interesting fan comment. Making blanket statements on route running. The truth is you nor I have the WR route book. So we don't know how it's written. Also, there is a degree of real time, I guess margin for error. These are human beings in a specific system where you have to use your brain with choice and option routes. These guys are not robots.

An example would be my TEs. Now this is D3, but this happens across all levels. An under route is a route where you literally are running behind the heels of the DL. So perhaps 2-3 yard depth and fast, and don't gain depth.

I ran that with my group and everyone ran it perfectly in practice. Come game day.... It was comical! I had my guys gaining depth on it. Some of the plays we scored and it was great.

But the avg fan had no clue is my point. Some routes are drawn up differently, the main thing is to focus on the WR book and see what it says. Since the system is hard stuff that like may be forgiven if the read is right. You can run robotic routes, but if you can't understand the choice and option routes than it's pointless.

I remember reading Smith doing his own thing and finding the soft spot. That can be a bad thing if you are not teaching it, but if the concept of the read is right, and he is being creative and its working, then the route itself doesn't matter, because the read was right.
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:46 PM    (permalink
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Slot can be Y if there is no TE.. TE is normally Y.

If there is a TE then it could labeled F or H, hence F/H. Depends on the system you are in.

Not to pick on you, you know I think you are a good poster, but that's always an interesting fan comment. Making blanket statements on route running. The truth is you nor I have the WR route book. So we don't know how it's written. Also, there is a degree of real time, I guess margin for error. These are human beings in a specific system where you have to use your brain with choice and option routes. These guys are not robots..
That's the issue right there.
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:30 PM    (permalink
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That's the issue right there.

Haha, I was waiting for that.
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:34 PM    (permalink
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Haha, I was waiting for that.
It's the truth though. Even if he was a genius, I still think his skill set is best used outside the hash marks. Obviously him and Smith are very different players. We are going to need someone to help fill at least some of the hole Smith's departure has created. I just don't think Mario is that guy. Let Mario be Mario and hopefully Hixon or someone else can step up in that role.
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Old 08-14-2011, 07:50 PM    (permalink
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That's the issue right there.
That's the thing though. He hasn't done it wrong. If so, he would not be starting or even on the team if that's the case.
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