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Old 11-06-2013, 03:56 PM    (permalink
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I think Brown is fine, for the right price. He can be a very usefull addition to the backfield.

He has had a high workload. I think he ideally is best suited in some kind of RB rotation though
Price isn't the issue. As with our players, it's health. Health for Brown, Jacobs, Webster, Hosley, Robinson, and Nicks. Add Snee and Baas to the mix as well.

I am sick and tired of the same people getting hurt over and over again. If Brown can't stay healthy. Bye bye Brown. Same with Hosley and Robinson. That's the issue with our team. We aren't getting good return on our investments from rounds 2-5 mainly, rounds 3 and on. We need to hit more on these guys.

The pressure is on Marc Ross because since 2008, his first draft, one can say our drafts haven't been all that good.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:43 PM    (permalink
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I'm guessing he gets half the carries this week then slowly builds towards about 65% of the carries for the rest of the year.

With majority of the snaps in pass pro.
Coughlin was talking about throwing him right into the deep end

From his press conference

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Q: How could Andre Brown help you?

A: Andre Brown, all I think about is when he played a year ago. I’m looking forward to the return of that player, quite frankly. Size, speed, he can catch the ball out of the backfield, he does a good job in pass protection. You sometimes forget that the guy is 230 pounds. That’s a little bit of a different dimension.


Q: We sometimes ask you about rust but given that I believe he’s been able to practice for two weeks leading up to the activation, have you seen enough from him that he’s ready to help?

A: Well, I think he’s ready to help. I think there’s a big difference between game day and practice. He has made steady progress and he has developed a lot of his confidence, I think, based on what’s going on on the practice field. In the very beginning you could hear him mumble things like, “I really missed that cut, I should have slammed my foot down and gone in the opposite direction” and that kind of stuff. He got much better as we went along.


Q: What’s realistic for a guy that hasn’t’ played a game…?

A: 40 carries and 15 receptions. Run the kickoffs back. What else would you like?


Q: Looking back though at his injury, do you think it was more of a setback than you had anticipated at the time?

A: Well, I’m just thankful it wasn’t for the whole year. A setback? Sure, it was a setback. Quite frankly, he was in a position where we needed him to play a little bit better and that’s why he played 19 plays in the last preseason game. Sometimes you get a feel for a guy, he needs to do more, you’ve got to get him more involved, and so that’s what we wanted to do. Setback because he was hurt? No question about it, no question. We went from two guys that we thought could really go get it down to just David and so on and so forth. It was a setback but you know what, here we are. Look forward. I can’t do anything about that now.
I would expect to see Brown involved early and often.
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Old 11-06-2013, 06:53 PM    (permalink
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Price isn't the issue. As with our players, it's health. Health for Brown, Jacobs, Webster, Hosley, Robinson, and Nicks. Add Snee and Baas to the mix as well.

I am sick and tired of the same people getting hurt over and over again. If Brown can't stay healthy. Bye bye Brown. Same with Hosley and Robinson. That's the issue with our team. We aren't getting good return on our investments from rounds 2-5 mainly, rounds 3 and on. We need to hit more on these guys.

The pressure is on Marc Ross because since 2008, his first draft, one can say our drafts haven't been all that good.
For me it depends on the medical evaluation and the expectation going forward.

by your analysis about staying healthy we should have cut Nicks, Baas, Snee, Tuck, JPP, Rogers, Beason, Williams, Rivers, Thomas. So who is playing?

Injuries are part of football, players do come back from injury and perform well (often at better value contracts). For me it is all about managing injuries and the likelihood of players being healthy.

As for Brown, his injuries have been ruptured Achilles tendon (2009), broken leg (2012), broken leg (2013). They heal well, it isn't like it was an ACL, lisfranc or similar. Even then players are coming back from injuries that previously were career ending and performing well.
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Old 11-06-2013, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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For me it depends on the medical evaluation and the expectation going forward.

by your analysis about staying healthy we should have cut Nicks, Baas, Snee, Tuck, JPP, Rogers, Beason, Williams, Rivers, Thomas. So who is playing?

Injuries are part of football, players do come back from injury and perform well (often at better value contracts). For me it is all about managing injuries and the likelihood of players being healthy.

As for Brown, his injuries have been ruptured Achilles tendon (2009), broken leg (2012), broken leg (2013). They heal well, it isn't like it was an ACL, lisfranc or similar. Even then players are coming back from injuries that previously were career ending and performing well.


Nicks is injury prone, and he probably won't be re-signed. Baas I would but the salary cap implications is high. Snee I would. Rodgers is old and won't get re-signed. JPP still is under contract. Tuck is useless and I would have got rid of his last season. Beason I want to see if he can stay healthy. Rivers I forgot he is even on the team. Williams has stayed healthy though his knee is something to be watched. Thomas is a free agent and I would let go after the season.

So there you go. We have a lot of UFA at the end of the season and a lot of decisions to make. This off season will be a huge one for Reese and draft will make a big one for Ross.
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Old 11-06-2013, 08:03 PM    (permalink
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I understand your point, but these guys may have value at the right price.

The reality is that we have a finite amount of money and a fixed number of picks to develop the team. There is a lot of planning that has to happen.

Take Diehl for example, he wasn't worth his substantial contract, but for veteran minimum he did have value in a backup role. He also provided leadership and competition for spots. This has paid dividend when Snee got hurt and Diehl has been able to step in. We have a lot of young guys, but they weren't able to beat out Diehl for playing time and they have had plenty of chances to do so.

Every team needs a mix of veterans to lead and mentor as well as young players being developed for the future. Look no further than Beason's impact and the improved play of the whole LB group. Don't underestimate the importance and impact of intangibles.

Tuck, whom you placed on the scrap heap, has been one of the most physical dlinemen we have had in the last couple of games. That can lift the play of the whole unit. He may not have the sack numbers, but he has had a valuable contribution.

Let's go one step further and assume we cut Tuck and Kiwi after the season. Suddenly we need to replace two guys. Unless we use a premium draft pick or spend in free agency, we have to hope some cheap free agent or low profile rookie breaks out big time. Suddenly we have JPP, the unproven Moore and...? what happens if one of these two get hurt? what about keeping them fresh?
If we kept Tuck for a reasonale price, we have a proven vet whom we know can contribute. Sure he may not be the starter, but we rely on a strong DE rotation.
That with bringing in a young guy to develop would be a solid DE rotation.

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Old 11-07-2013, 08:14 AM    (permalink
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Tuck hasn't been bad ths year. He's actually played very well against the run except when he got ate up on those 2 TD's in the Broncos game. If he wants to come back next year as a backup for the minimum or close to it I think we have to do that.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:52 AM    (permalink
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The problem with re-signing Tuck is I don't see him accepting a back up role, especially with his presence in that lockerroom. You're bringing a complicated dynamic that just isn't worth dealing with.

We just need to move on from him.
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:59 AM    (permalink
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The problem with re-signing Tuck is I don't see him accepting a back up role, especially with his presence in that lockerroom. You're bringing a complicated dynamic that just isn't worth dealing with.

We just need to move on from him.
There is no back up role. Everyone is constantly rotating. He comes off the field now a decent bit. The main thing he'd have to accept is a pay cut. I don't think the playing time would be an issue.

3rd and long he can still get on the field on the inside. And play about half the snaps in other packages. Might help him player better and stay fresher.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:06 AM    (permalink
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The problem with re-signing Tuck is I don't see him accepting a back up role, especially with his presence in that lockerroom. You're bringing a complicated dynamic that just isn't worth dealing with.

We just need to move on from him.
How is DaMontre Moore progressing? In college he had such a great feel for getting to the QB. Even though he disappointed at the combine I had faith that he would find a way to become a really good situational pass rusher at the very least. His biggest problem imo was his ability to anchor against the run and lack of strength in general. Another year in a pro style strength and conditioning program will do him wonders in that dept.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:12 AM    (permalink
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Going forward the Giants are going to happen serious issues of talent deficit on their Defensive Line.

Tuck is actually their best player this year, and they basically have no one else playing well in the pass rush department. Some of the DTs like Mike Patterson and Shaun Rogers are playing well against the run but these are older vets who do not figure to be a significant part of the Giants' future.

I am also of the mind that Jason Pierre Paul was vastly overrated based on one season, and injury or not, will be a marginal player for the rest of his career. If you want to talk about injuries, realize that back injuries are the worst kind of injury for a DLineman to have - this has the potential to derail his career for years to come.

And no, they do not have a shot at drafting Jadaveon Clowney with their first round pick this year either. They will win anywhere from 4-7 games.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:16 AM    (permalink
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There is no back up role. Everyone is constantly rotating. He comes off the field now a decent bit. The main thing he'd have to accept is a pay cut. I don't think the playing time would be an issue.

3rd and long he can still get on the field on the inside. And play about half the snaps in other packages. Might help him player better and stay fresher.
Yeah honestly I just don't want him on the team. He offers nothing as a pass rusher in any capacity anymore. The fact that we have to justify him by saying "at least he's good vs the run this year" tells you everything you need to know. The guy just can't hack it anymore. He's a waste of a roster spot at this point. If you can't rush the passer and you're not a 2 down DT you have no value on this team.

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How is DaMontre Moore progressing? In college he had such a great feel for getting to the QB. Even though he disappointed at the combine I had faith that he would find a way to become a really good situational pass rusher at the very least. His biggest problem imo was his ability to anchor against the run and lack of strength in general. Another year in a pro style strength and conditioning program will do him wonders in that dept.
He looked great in the PS for the one game he played before he got hurt. That's all we know on him. He hasn't seen the field and has been hindered by injuries. I want to believe that he can be a good option for us moving forward but we haven't seen anything other than 1 PS game to justify that assumption so it's too early to say one way or another.

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Going forward the Giants are going to happen serious issues of talent deficit on their Defensive Line.

Tuck is actually their best player this year, and they basically have no one else playing well in the pass rush department. Some of the DTs like Mike Patterson and Shaun Rogers are playing well against the run but these are older vets who do not figure to be a significant part of the Giants' future.

I am also of the mind that Jason Pierre Paul was vastly overrated based on one season, and injury or not, will be a marginal player for the rest of his career. If you want to talk about injuries, realize that back injuries are the worst kind of injury for a DLineman to have - this has the potential to derail his career for years to come.

And no, they do not have a shot at drafting Jadaveon Clowney with their first round pick this year either. They will win anywhere from 4-7 games.
Go away troll.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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Go away troll.
The truth hurts?
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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The truth hurts?
Honestly I didn't read a word of your post so I have no idea if it's the truth or not. I just saw your name and knew not to read a word of it.
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Old 11-07-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
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He said how bad our d line is but didn't mention Moore, Hankins or Joseph and then said how JPP is over rated.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:04 AM    (permalink
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That's nice.

My rebuttal is simple:

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Old 11-07-2013, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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He said how bad our d line is but didn't mention Moore, Hankins or Joseph and then said how JPP is over rated.
He's just trying to hijack the thread, like any in the NFL Forum, to get across how much he hates JPP while he stalks Brandon Graham.
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Old 11-07-2013, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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He hates Earl Thomas a lot too. Bc the Eagles should have taken either Thomas or JPP and instead got Brandon Graham. So he feels like a jilted lover.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:03 AM    (permalink
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I think he finally got over Graham and now thinks Curry is the best DE
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
Malaka
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I actually agree with AcheTen our D-Line blowsssssss, I am actually pretty sure we have the lowest sack total in the league.

Although, Tuck being our best player on the D-Line is absolutely lol worthy. The guy is awful. I would say Linval and Cullen Jenkins have been the best players on the D-line, but that isn't saying much.

EDIT: I want Tuck gone. I do not know how he became a leader in the locker room but he did... and he's a ****** leader. Poor leadership... poor play... I think even in a back-up role just his awful leadership is enough to make me want to move on from him. This guy couldn't lead a group preschoolers to recess.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Our DL, and defense in general is actually very good vs the run.

Our pass rush has been anemic. Tuck can't rush the passer anymore. JPP is still recovering. Kiwi is the definition of a JAG, and Moore hasn't seen the field. So our pass rush has been pretty terrible and as a result so has our pass defense.

Fewell also has simplified our coverage schemes as well which is why our defense has looked a lot better in the past 2 games. There was an article on it on the daily news. It just amazes me how the players have to beg Fewell to make changes in order for changes to happen, and the results speak for themselves but he still refuses to adjust completely.

That's stubborn and poor coaching. I hate Fewell.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:17 AM    (permalink
Malaka
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Our DL, and defense in general is actually very good vs the run.

Our pass rush has been anemic. Tuck can't rush the passer anymore. JPP is still recovering. Kiwi is the definition of a JAG, and Moore hasn't seen the field. So our pass rush has been pretty terrible and as a result so has our pass defense.

Fewell also has simplified our coverage schemes as well which is why our defense has looked a lot better in the past 2 games. There was an article on it on the daily news. It just amazes me how the players have to beg Fewell to make changes in order for changes to happen, and the results speak for themselves but he still refuses to adjust completely.

That's stubborn and poor coaching. I hate Fewell.
I agree our run defense has actually been nice, but I think I would attribute that to the play of our DTs rather than our DEs.

That being said, this is a passing league. Our pass rush has been nonexistent.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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I agree our run defense has actually been nice, but I think I would attribute that to the play of our DTs rather than our DEs.

That being said, this is a passing league. Our pass rush has been nonexistent.
DEs have been setting the edge just fine. And Beason has done a tremendous job of filling gaps.

The pass rush is the obvious problem. We have 1 legit pass rusher who's hurt, and a questionable pass rusher with potential that never sees the field. If JPP doesn't recover and Moore never sees the field, our pass rush will be poor all season.

Regardless, we need another pass rusher in the upcoming draft and that's probably #1 on my wishlist.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:21 AM    (permalink
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DEs have been setting the edge just fine. And Beason has done a tremendous job of filling gaps.

The pass rush is the obvious problem. We have 1 legit pass rusher who's hurt, and a questionable pass rusher with potential that never sees the field. If JPP doesn't recover and Moore never sees the field, our pass rush will be poor all season.

Regardless, we need another pass rusher in the upcoming draft and that's probably #1 on my wishlist.
Beason has been a great acquisition. I really wonder how Reese pulled that off. #powermoves

I definitely think we resign him if he manages to remain healthy.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:27 AM    (permalink
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Well let's hope we see the JPP of old soon. Maybe Moore gets on the field.
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Old 11-07-2013, 11:29 AM    (permalink
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The success of our defense hinges on 4 players in my eyes:

JPP
Moore
Terrell Thomas
Beason

If TT can stay healthy, if Beason can stay healthy, and if JPP and Moore can get us some pass rush, our defense should be exponentially better for the rest of the season.
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