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Old 12-15-2013, 11:47 PM    (permalink
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We need two new quality starters. With Pugh, two good new guys and Beatty hopefully bouncing back to some degree our OL will be able to function with a vet like Bootey, or a comparable cheap fa. But we have to add two starters, which means at least one high end FA.
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Old 12-16-2013, 06:19 AM    (permalink
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I think we may actually stick Cordle at center. He didn't look too bad there for a few games. Get two guards and maybe hope Beatty gets his **** together.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:05 AM    (permalink
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We're going to need one OL through the draft and one through FA. Pugh, Beatty, the two new guys, and then let whomever else fight their way for the last spot.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:28 AM    (permalink
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We need depth too though. I wouldn't be opposed to getting 2 guys in FA and 2 guys in the draft. Perhaps 1 starter and 1 depth guy in FA, and hopefully 2 guys you want to develop as starters in the draft.

I think I'm just about done with Nicks. I think we should let him walk. The problem is, Randle is too inconsistent to be a X right now, and we need at the very least a Z to replace Nicks. And let's not forget we have no TE.

So we have issues at the skill positions as well. But first and foremost we have to fix the OL. We can't fix this mess in one offseason but we have to start with the OL.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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We have to hope we lose out and a couple of these teams ahead of us win out. Clowney and in all likelihood Barr are both out of the question, but if a couple of these qbs can improve their stock, and if we can settle into perhaps the 6th pick in the draft we may be able to grab Jake Matthews at LT.

That would be ideal at this point. Plug him into LT, move Beatty to RT where he's looked competent in the past, move Pugh to G, then we need perhaps a Guard in round 2, or maybe a Center depending on BPA and we could be ok along the OL.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Besides Mack are there any other possible C FA's? I wouldn't mind just taking the first center in the 2nd round with our pick if one is available.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:48 AM    (permalink
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Doesn't seem like it. Although Jared Veldheer seems like a possibility if Oakland doesn't bring him back. I can't imagine why they wouldn't though.

I'm all for late 1st round/early 2nd round Centers. They're money. I can't remember the last one that busted.

Jake Matthews in the 1st and best available G or C in the 2nd would go a long way for this team.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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I wouldn't mind that. The only problem is their are still going to be OL issue next year if we have two rookies stepping in.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:53 AM    (permalink
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We don't have a choice at this point. What else can you do? Any OL reinforcements you bring in will take a year to gel, but it is what it is.

Pugh needed about 6 weeks. You figure if we bring in 2 guys and it takes them 6 weeks to play competently I'll take that. But it has to be done.

Right here right now we need to protect Eli. Everything that has happened this season on offense has been a domino effect of terrible OL play. It's not entirely on the OL, but it starts there. We need to fix it and that's gonna require an overhaul.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:55 AM    (permalink
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I agree. We can't keep pushing it back but I was just stating the first hald of next year might be ugly also. We need to bring in talent though so we'll have to live with it.
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:58 AM    (permalink
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I'm a firm believer in BPA regardless of position when talking about filling holes in a team with many holes like ourselves, but at this point it's gotten so bad along the OL I don't think we really have a choice anymore. We have to address the OL in a major way this year. Even if it means passing on someone with a higher grade at say LB, or CB, or WR or maybe even DE.

We simply can't ignore it anymore. I just hope we position ourselves in a situation that will allow us to take Jake Matthews.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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I just don't see us moving Beatty after we gave him that contract, especially after Pugh has shown well at RT.

I'm sure we'll try to resign Boothe, as his versatility is awesome, but I'd prefer if he wasn't starting anymore, let him backup everything except LT.

I wonder how Snee plays out, we can't pay him what hes owed, but obviously hes not your everyday player. You also have to wonder if he can still play if everything is healthy, hes only 31.


I'd concentrate on the interior the most, elite G play can make average tackles look better.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Beatty has been mediocre or below average his entire career at LT outside of his contract year. He's been a pretty solid RT though when he has played there.

I just think we have to check our ego and move him to RT. Yes, he'll be an expensive RT, but if you think about it, if we draft a LT that you get on a rookie contract the money balances itself out over the next 4 years, so you shouldn't think of it that way.

I feel that move alone will solidify 3 out of 5 positions along the OL.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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I don't know if Pugh would be as good as a G as he has been at RT.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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I think he'd be better honestly. He has tremendous technique and footwork. His issue is his arms. That would be minimized at Guard.

He'll make an excellent pulling Guard.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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This offense stinks. 0 points yet again. I want to see us with a ZBS. I think we can establish a plug and play situation with Rbs, if we can get the OL to run block well in a ZBS. Inside and outside zone, stretch concept running game. Right now we are in the middle of the ocean with no motor. Just floating around aimlessly.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I think he'd be better honestly. He has tremendous technique and footwork. His issue is his arms. That would be minimized at Guard.

He'll make an excellent pulling Guard.
I don't think he has the natural strength to play G. Technique and footwork is more important at the T position which is why he does well there.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:37 AM    (permalink
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Problem with ZBS is it isn't great in pass pro bc your lighter OL can get pushed around, and you need a mobile qb bc you do a lot of bootleg off the stretch.

We don't have a mobile qb, running a ZBS OL wouldn't compliment him well.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:39 AM    (permalink
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I think we need to make a big signing in FA for the OL and then draft the top Center or Guard in the second. That'll address the line and give us the pieces to be effective once that mutual understanding is developed.

But I just don't like picking OTs in the top 10. Unless you're getting a real monster potential first overall pick, joe thomas, jake long, ryan kalil types, top ten tackles end up overdrafted. So I want us to use our first to boost the D and use FA and day two to fix our OL.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Beatty has been mediocre or below average his entire career at LT outside of his contract year. He's been a pretty solid RT though when he has played there.

I just think we have to check our ego and move him to RT. Yes, he'll be an expensive RT, but if you think about it, if we draft a LT that you get on a rookie contract the money balances itself out over the next 4 years, so you shouldn't think of it that way.

I feel that move alone will solidify 3 out of 5 positions along the OL.
Beatty's been pretty good for us whenever he's been healthy before this year. Granted last year was the only time he put together a full season of quality healthy play, but I think he'll have a bounceback year next season. Still wouldn't stop me from signing an upgrade and swapping him over to the right, but I also think he won't be nearly this awful next year.

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I think he'd be better honestly. He has tremendous technique and footwork. His issue is his arms. That would be minimized at Guard.

He'll make an excellent pulling Guard.
Yeah he reminds me a lot of a more athletic diehl from back in the day, his smarts, technique and tenacity are making him effective on the edge, but with his feet, sticking him on the inside where we can pull him on just about every running play he can become amazing.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by cgf (Rosebud) View Post
I think we need to make a big signing in FA for the OL and then draft the top Center or Guard in the second. That'll address the line and give us the pieces to be effective once that mutual understanding is developed.

But I just don't like picking OTs in the top 10. Unless you're getting a real monster potential first overall pick, joe thomas, jake long, ryan kalil types, top ten tackles end up overdrafted. So I want us to use our first to boost the D and use FA and day two to fix our OL.
We're just going to have to trust our scouts on this. OL is the main problem of the team and as soon as that gets fixed the better off we'll be.

Nicks is definitely a goner. I don't even think they franchise him at this point. I don't know what happened to him this season. We do need a WR but hopefully Gilbride leaves finally and the system becomes easier. If that's the cas eI can then see Randle blowing up and Cruz still do his thing. Coleman declared for the draft and he had a hoorible year so it's quite possible he's available in the 3rd or even 4th rounds which would be a nice gamble.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:47 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080 View Post
I don't think he has the natural strength to play G. Technique and footwork is more important at the T position which is why he does well there.
Technique and footwork is vital for all OL positions. All positions in general really. It all starts there.

He'll bulk up. He's just a rookie. And he's not weak either. Guys get in his chest constantly and he holds his ground. If he was weak he'd get bullrushed nonstop.

He's great at getting low and driving his guy backwards. He'll make a very good Guard. Maybe Pro Bowl level.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:49 AM    (permalink
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It's not that I don't trust our scouts, I just hate the idea of wasting top ten picks on guys that are often not more beneficial to their teams than their OG and OC counterparts who are drafted a round later. When we get the chance to pick in the top 10 it needs to be on the real premier spots, QB, pass rusher, DB or WR.

And we can fix our OL with an FA and day two guy, so we don't need to waste this chance to add that type of premium talent that we so rarely get to select from.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:52 AM    (permalink
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I just don't know with Nicks. I'm fine with letting him walk, which surprises me, but I also can't help but can't shake the feeling he's going to have a big bounce back year next season, especially if we replace Gilbride with someone like Gailey or he goes back to Carolina to catch passes from Cam. So if he's not gunna get crazy money I'm not against bringing him back either, but dude needs to put some serious work into his body, and we need to sit him out of games when he's not fully healthy.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:54 AM    (permalink
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I normally agree that top 10 OTs are usually way overrated, but we really don't have a choice now.

First and foremost, it's hard spending on a FA OT bc think about how money money we'll have tied to OT if that's the case. That's something I failed to realize before. We can mediate that financial hit if we draft an OT. Much cheaper and better distribution of finances.

Plus, I think we have a solid OT prospect in the top 10 this year in Jake Matthews. So I wouldn't mind it.
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